so my character wants to sell his soul....

[Deremir]

so one of my character players asked me if he could sell his soul. i didn't really see any problem with this at the time, so now he has the power to slip certain spells into his diplomacy check a few times per day(fear, calm, charm person, suggestion a few others) and currently all he knows is that he has this power his eyes are red his forehead is marked and he sold his soul to a demon. witch demon he has no clue. so i wanted to ask if anyone had some interesting plots i could use this for. my current thought is that he sold his soul to a hell-fire werm but that is very changeable right now if need be

[Big Fau]

For mechanical reasons, look into Elder Evils. By willingly worshipping one you gain 5 bonus feats (one immediately+one for every 5 character levels), all chosen from a fairly short (but very useful) list. It would be easy to refluff it as him selling his soul to a Demon/Devil. In fact, two of the Elder Evils are Demons/Devils (Sertrous and Zargyon, although the latter is technically a precursor to the Baatezu).

[Maginomicon]

There are rules for Faustian pacts in one of the Fiendish Codex books... I think Fiendish Codex II. Also, the premise behind the warlock base class semi-implies selling your soul.

[ArcturusV]

Witch Demons eh? Make sure they have plenty of newts and cauldrons.

But really it depends. Beelzebub, considering the power you mentioned, sounds like the obvious Devil that may be involved in it. I mean mind altering effects couched in your words? If not the Prince of Lies, then who?

Graz'zt might be the other one that leaps to mind for a demonic patron.

[Segev]

I think step 1 should be determining whether you have his soul "pre-ordered" by the demon in question, or the demon already has taken it and left the character without it (or with limited connection to it, or with it in the demon's possession as a "leash" of some sort).

If it's "pre-ordered," as in the classic Faustian pact, you should probably make the plot elements revolve around exactly why this is a doom he might wish to avoid. Set it up so that he has reason to fear the contract coming due. It could be so blatant as to have the demon offer him a higher position of privilege in his eventual afterlife (over which the demon has complete control) if he proves to be a good minion before hand. Or it could be more subtle, with awful, dreadful things to come that hopefully motivate the PC to seek salvation.

If it's already taken, then it becomes either an exploration of why it sucks to be soul-less, or a plot line wherein the demon can exert influence (torture, torment, mental control, etc.) through ownership of the soul already in his possession in order to use the mind and body as tools. Tools that have enough free will to fight the control, but which are unable to escape the reach of the demon.

[Shining Wrath]

so my character asked me if he could sell his soul. i didn't really see any problem with this at the time, so now he has the power to slip certain spells into his diplomacy check a few times per day(fear, calm, charm person, suggestion a few others) and currently all he knows is that he has this power his eyes are red his forehead is marked and he sold his soul to a demon. witch demon he has no clue. so i wanted to ask if anyone had some interesting plots i could use this for. my current thought is that he sold his soul to a hell-fire werm but that is very changeable right now if need be

Double-cross! A guardian angel saved his soul by masquerading as a demon, which is why he doesn't know which demon it was, and actually he has sold his soul to the Powers Of Good. And very soon the bill will come due in the form of a Code of Honor similar to that of a Paladin or a Knight, which for many D&D campaigns will be a worse fate than anything a demon might ask of him.

He will become Lawful Good, obnoxiously so, or suffer both the loss of his powers and torments of various sorts, because LG does encompass vengeance for oath-breakers. At which point his eyes will turn golden, not red, and the mark on his forehead will morph into a Holy Symbol of Bahamut.

[Brookshw]

Double-cross! A guardian angel saved his soul by masquerading as a demon, which is why he doesn't know which demon it was, and actually he has sold his soul to the Powers Of Good. And very soon the bill will come due in the form of a Code of Honor similar to that of a Paladin or a Knight, which for many D&D campaigns will be a worse fate than anything a demon might ask of him.

He will become Lawful Good, obnoxiously so, or suffer both the loss of his powers and torments of various sorts, because LG does encompass vengeance for oath-breakers. At which point his eyes will turn golden, not red, and the mark on his forehead will morph into a Holy Symbol of Bahamut.

Hah! That's good, probably chaotic good would be better, I assume the celestial would steer it towards their alignment and lawful doesn't seem right to be tricking someone in this fashion.

[Shining Wrath]

Hah! That's good, probably chaotic good would be better, I assume the celestial would steer it towards their alignment and lawful doesn't seem right to be tricking someone in this fashion.

I thought about that ... but I think Lawful might be able to justify a little dissembling to keep someone from selling his soul to a demon!

If the entity didn't actually *say* they were a demon, but just let the PC make that assumption based on the odor of brimstone and general appearance ... well, the LG entity didn't actually lie as such. Not really. And it's for a Noble Cause.

A NG minion of a LG deity (there are some such, I believe) would be all over that reasoning.

OTOH, this totally seems like something an Eladrin would do.

[Red Fel]

LG would totally use force to shift someone's alignment. Look at the Emissary of Barachiel's Calling ability.

Back on the point, OP, you asked for plot ideas. Well, off we go to the races.

Before we can even look at the plot, we have to look at the motivation for the plot. Why did this entity want the PC's soul? Not every soul has value to Lower Beings. What use did this offer? Influence over a living mortal? Currency in an extraplanar marketplace? A chance to enter the Prime?

Now we can look at the plot. First, you have to motivate the player. Why does this player want his soul back? Why should he worry? Why should he care? Give him a reason.

Perhaps he starts pinging as Evil on Detect Evil. In fact, you should probably stick that in anyway. Perhaps he starts failing key rolls or saves at key times. Perhaps he has to start making Will saves or start giving into evil impulses. Perhaps he has blackouts and awakens to learn he has done horrible things. Or perhaps you discuss with his player the possibility of alignment creep. Whatever the source, he should start feeling inconvenienced by his bargain. The possibility of eventual damnation is too far-off to be a deterrent for most players - start bringing in more immediate penalties.

Consider one option. The entity was a Devil. Lawful Evil. It had an agenda on the Prime - perhaps it wanted to be summoned, or to open a portal, or to desecrate a temple or something. Now that it has the PC's soul, it will not only attempt that feat - it will succeed. And because it holds the PC's soul, the PC will be unable to oppose it, even if the rest of the party tries to fight it. That's just a simple one, of course.

Once you have inconvenienced the character enough, he will start to think twice of his bargain. Now we get into the plot in earnest - recovering the soul, voiding the contract, getting out alive. An easier method of recovery suggests that the entity holding the soul has come to the Prime, or a more approachable plane like the Shadow or Ethereal, to do its dark business. Perhaps your party intends to recover the soul, sealed in a physical object, by force. Perhaps the soul isn't in a physical form, but is metaphysically tied to the entity - you need to give him a reason to voluntarily surrender it. Or perhaps he's simply a merchant after all, and he sees this soul as a chance to trade up to something of greater value.

A harder method of recovery involves going Downstairs. Force will likely be required. Survival will hardly be ensured.

[Shining Wrath]

LG would totally use force to shift someone's alignment. Look at the Emissary of Barachiel's Calling ability.

Back on the point, OP, you asked for plot ideas. Well, off we go to the races.

Before we can even look at the plot, we have to look at the motivation for the plot. Why did this entity want the PC's soul? Not every soul has value to Lower Beings. What use did this offer? Influence over a living mortal? Currency in an extraplanar marketplace? A chance to enter the Prime?

Now we can look at the plot. First, you have to motivate the player. Why does this player want his soul back? Why should he worry? Why should he care? Give him a reason.

Perhaps he starts pinging as Evil on Detect Evil. In fact, you should probably stick that in anyway. Perhaps he starts failing key rolls or saves at key times. Perhaps he has to start making Will saves or start giving into evil impulses. Perhaps he has blackouts and awakens to learn he has done horrible things. Or perhaps you discuss with his player the possibility of alignment creep. Whatever the source, he should start feeling inconvenienced by his bargain. The possibility of eventual damnation is too far-off to be a deterrent for most players - start bringing in more immediate penalties.

Consider one option. The entity was a Devil. Lawful Evil. It had an agenda on the Prime - perhaps it wanted to be summoned, or to open a portal, or to desecrate a temple or something. Now that it has the PC's soul, it will not only attempt that feat - it will succeed. And because it holds the PC's soul, the PC will be unable to oppose it, even if the rest of the party tries to fight it. That's just a simple one, of course.

Once you have inconvenienced the character enough, he will start to think twice of his bargain. Now we get into the plot in earnest - recovering the soul, voiding the contract, getting out alive. An easier method of recovery suggests that the entity holding the soul has come to the Prime, or a more approachable plane like the Shadow or Ethereal, to do its dark business. Perhaps your party intends to recover the soul, sealed in a physical object, by force. Perhaps the soul isn't in a physical form, but is metaphysically tied to the entity - you need to give him a reason to voluntarily surrender it. Or perhaps he's simply a merchant after all, and he sees this soul as a chance to trade up to something of greater value.

A harder method of recovery involves going Downstairs. Force will likely be required. Survival will hardly be ensured.

And of course there are always other evil forces working at cross-purposes to this demon, to say nothing of good or neutral cosmic forces.

You sell your soul to a demon and all of a sudden you are a pawn on a chessboard you didn't know was there.

[Deremir]

Hmm i feel like the contract was too veig to pull a " i have your soul and can make you do whatever i want whenever i want." thing so what if the demon( spacifically a very powerful hellfire wurm seeking to escape hell) gained contol of his body when he was asleep. In fluff terms when his soul wasnt using it. They are currently trying to reclaim a mage colledge that has gotten overtaken by demons so there could be a chance to reshape whatever summond the other demons to summon the hellfire wurm. And after sommoning theres the constant worry and reprocussions of what he does in his sleep. Im not sure what to do if he dies tho...

[Red Fel]

Hmm i feel like the contract was too veig to pull a " i have your soul and can make you do whatever i want whenever i want." thing so what if the demon( spacifically a very powerful hellfire wurm seeking to escape hell) gained contol of his body when he was asleep. In fluff terms when his soul wasnt using it. They are currently trying to reclaim a mage colledge that has gotten overtaken by demons so there could be a chance to reshape whatever summond the other demons to summon the hellfire wurm. And after sommoning theres the constant worry and reprocussions of what he does in his sleep. Im not sure what to do if he dies tho...

Well, when a character dies, his soul usually lingers long enough to check for a rez, but then passes on to the afterlife of his choice. But if the soul legally belongs to the demon, it goes to the demon. That means that a normal rez spell won't work, because the soul isn't free to return, unless the demon decides that to be the case.

If this were a Devil, as opposed to a Demon, it would be a perfect opportunity. Any time the character dies, the Devil offers him another deal. Do X for me, and I let your allies revive you. Or remain here, and... It's technically a voluntary choice, which makes it binding.

Even if it's not a Devil, it still gets to choose what it does with his soul. Maybe it plants some sort of demonic parasite in his soul before letting him rez. ("Gee, I hope nothing came back with me from that horrible place. That would be just awful.") Maybe it just stamps THE END on his forehead, prevents any rez, and the player has to re-roll.

[Spore]

Even if it's not a Devil, it still gets to choose what it does with his soul. Maybe it plants some sort of demonic parasite in his soul before letting him rez. ("Gee, I hope nothing came back with me from that horrible place. That would be just awful.")

I like you when you're evil. More please.

[Red Fel]

I like you when you're evil. More please.

To be fair, my comment may not have been 100% original (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/1999/08/06).

[Captnq]

so my character asked me if he could sell his soul.


So...

I'm the only one who noticed that this character was talking to the player about soul economy based transactions? Eh? And the rest of you are good with that? Really? I'm the only one with a problem with that? Okay. Just Checking.

Carry on.

[Angelalex242]

I agree with 'alignment detects as that of the patron.'

I'd also say 'may only be rezzed by alignment of the patron.'

That is, if you make a pact with a Devil, only Hextor and Tiamat's people will revive you. If a Demon, only Eryuthnul or Gruumsh.

I'd also say such a pact falls under 'Paladins may not adventure with you by PHB RAW.'

I'd say such a pact automatically qualifies you for any and all Vile feats, and any class (like Blackguard) that requires peaceful contact with an evil outsider. I forget if there's a 'Servant of the Hells' sort of Vile Feat, but if there is, that should be a prerequisite of the sale.

[ArcturusV]

There is, Disciple of Darkness for Devils, and Thrall to a Demon, for Demons.

[Menzath]

Well be fore-warned if they ever die, unless the owner of the soul if insane our has crazy master plans they will never get raised. EVER.

The player has put himself into hard mode if he is not horrendously evil, trusted minions/worshippers/followers get second chances but not anyone else.

Might be a neat adventure hook for the group to travel and bargain for his soul back.

[Angelalex242]

Well, that makes it simple. Just require taking the feat depending on alignment of the outsider, and call the sale good. Maybe even grant it as a bonus feat, because the path to the dark side is quick and easy like that.

[Brookshw]

So...

I'm the only one who noticed that this character was talking to the player about soul economy based transactions? Eh? And the rest of you are good with that? Really? I'm the only one with a problem with that? Okay. Just Checking.

Carry on.

It's okay, vlad made his will save vs. Insanity

Please accept navy as a substitute for blue.
Because my phone hates me.

[ArcturusV]

though in general I support the idea of it getting the guy in deeper.

Right now it's "Minor power" (Casting spells as Stilled, Silent, Eschew Materials while talking) for the price of your soul.

There will come a time when that's not enough though. The character has run into a problem. Or the character dies. That's when you get them in deeper. "Oh... yeah... I can offer you an out of this situation you have here, bleeding out, about to be eaten by zombies... But I already own your soul. Lets just say you owe me a favor, a single action at a time to be determined, lasting for no longer than 1 round".

... they might bite on that. Or might not and suffer the consequences. But then you ahve this sword hanging over their head. The demon gets to control any single action from them at any point in time. What will it be? When is it coming? Does the demon go and have you Coup de Grace your lover one night? Slit your own throat? Kill some agent of good that you were supposed to rescue? Hand over an object to the one person you don't want to have it?

And then you end up having to cut more deals to fix it.

ANd you just get in deeper and deeper.

Bonus points if you bait the trap too, but doing things like giving them more 'benefits' as well, like Demonic weapons, magic items, extra powers, etc, as a REWARD for doing things that the Demon finds funny and interesting without being asked. "Oh man... you just ripped that werewolf's head off, harvested his blood, and fed it to some kid? ... here, have a No Arcane Spell Failure +5 Demonic Plate Armor..."

[Angelalex242]

Almost makes it sound like the demon was Emperor Palpatine in a previous life.

"Good my young apprentice...your anger has made you powerful...now give into your hate..."

[ArcturusV]

It's what demons are. Destructive. Tempting. They want carnage. And the most carnage doesn't come from just you selling your soul... but from you throwing in your lot. From thinking "Hey... this stuff is cool" and becoming a demon upon the mortal plane yourself. They WANT you to do bad. They like it when you set the world on fire. They will reward you for it... until you no longer amuse them, and they consume you.

That's how I run demons. :smallwink:

[PersonMan]

Hah! That's good, probably chaotic good would be better, I assume the celestial would steer it towards their alignment and lawful doesn't seem right to be tricking someone in this fashion.

"It's all in the fine print. Yeesh, stupid mortals never reading the contracts they sign..."

Just like Devils, they are Lawful Good, after all. :smallwink:

[Brookshw]

"It's all in the fine print. Yeesh, stupid mortals never reading the contracts they sign..."

Just like Devils, they are Lawful Good, after all. :smallwink:

archon 1: man, do you believe these mortals?
Archon 2: seriously, they'll buy anything. I got every paladin in the world to agree to accept a code that prohibits lying.
Archon 1: wow, good thing we don't have to live by those standards.

[Angelalex242]

Archons have a bit too much good in their lawful to trick mortals on fine print. In fact, I think they'd go out of their way to make sure the mortal knows all the rules and ramifications of what they're signing before they sign. They expect you to keep any agreements you make, but they expect you to fully understand what you're signing.

Unlike, say, the Devils, where they don't explain anything and put fine print in font like this.

[Deophaun]

Unlike, say, the Devils, where they don't explain anything and put fine print in font like this.
That's still quite large. That fancy-looking border around the vellum isn't just there for decoration. Hope you brought a magnifying glass and a Spot modifier of +20.

[Deremir]

though in general I support the idea of it getting the guy in deeper.

Right now it's "Minor power" (Casting spells as Stilled, Silent, Eschew Materials while talking) for the price of your soul.

There will come a time when that's not enough though. The character has run into a problem. Or the character dies. That's when you get them in deeper. "Oh... yeah... I can offer you an out of this situation you have here, bleeding out, about to be eaten by zombies... But I already own your soul. Lets just say you owe me a favor, a single action at a time to be determined, lasting for no longer than 1 round".

... they might bite on that. Or might not and suffer the consequences. But then you ahve this sword hanging over their head. The demon gets to control any single action from them at any point in time. What will it be? When is it coming? Does the demon go and have you Coup de Grace your lover one night? Slit your own throat? Kill some agent of good that you were supposed to rescue? Hand over an object to the one person you don't want to have it?

And then you end up having to cut more deals to fix it.

ANd you just get in deeper and deeper.

Bonus points if you bait the trap too, but doing things like giving them more 'benefits' as well, like Demonic weapons, magic items, extra powers, etc, as a REWARD for doing things that the Demon finds funny and interesting without being asked. "Oh man... you just ripped that werewolf's head off, harvested his blood, and fed it to some kid? ... here, have a No Arcane Spell Failure +5 Demonic Plate Armor..."

oooh nice tip! the tragic situation the player used as a escuse for his character to be willing to make this deal( at the start he was CG and then a very good CN because he killed Steve...) was that all eight of his party's npc fighters and one of the pcs died while his character couldn't do anything so in his grief he did something stupid got knocked to -9 and made the deal. his character is currently totally "the ends justify the means" so long as the means are good. however his character is totally selfless so he probably would go to hell before willingly killing innocents (assuming killing those innocents didn't help the whole).

so if in his eyes it would do good he may very well agree to "i gain control over you for any five minutes of your life of my choice" which could be him summoning the demon to the material plane, preferably at a time when no one else was around so no one would know it had been summoned. after which they would continue in dealings getting him farther and farther in. maiby eventually just joining said demon.:smallyuk:

[Shining Wrath]

So...

I'm the only one who noticed that this character was talking to the player about soul economy based transactions? Eh? And the rest of you are good with that? Really? I'm the only one with a problem with that? Okay. Just Checking.

Carry on.

I think I'm not the only one who read this as "A player in a game I DM". But yes, it is possible that someone needs to step away from the battle mat for a few weeks.

[Deremir]

So...

I'm the only one who noticed that this character was talking to the player about soul economy based transactions? Eh? And the rest of you are good with that? Really? I'm the only one with a problem with that? Okay. Just Checking.

Carry on.

there I fixed it.

[Brookshw]

there I fixed it.

So now the players selling his soul, not the characters soul? This game DOES lead to demon worship :smalltongue:

[Vaz]

Have a look at the sacrifice rules inside BoVD. He must make a K. Religion check to gain access to some benefits. He could perhaps make a number a day (1/4 Character level?) checks to which he can recreate an ability; for example DC15 buffs him with Bulls Strength (or similar) for 24 hours. Perhaps replace with other similar abilities; shaping a Soulmeld, for example, or granting him an ability from the Astral Construct menu from XPH.

Go book diving for some new and unique abilities with which to grant him. They don't necessarily have to be powerful, or even things he necessarily wants, but you could suggest that each time this ability is used, he becomes more of a plaything of the demon/devil he sold his soul to, who might decide to use their now quasi-thrall (each time abilities used, he takes a -1 penalty to saves against the demons abilities/spells/attacks, say) to enact something.