Need help killing an optimized PC as a new PC (Pathfinder)

[mryodaman]

Hi there! Our weekly DnD group has been experiencing a bit of a problem involving an overly optimized PC. He runs a bladebound kensai-ish build, and utilizes A) traits B) Our DM's generosity with magic items, and C) shocking grasp crit-fishing. A rather fragile character, our DM has been making encounters better for the rest of the party by throwing grapplers at him, his cloak of evasion also ups his survivability. The fact is, he is playing a heavily optimized character in a group full of players who don't bother to optimize.

Now, my character has recently died. Discussing with the DM, who is uncomfortable with just throwing an encounter at the players with the sole purpose of killing off this PC, has instead proposed that I just roll up with a super optimized character, develop a beef with the offending player, and then mercilessly beat the **** out of him and force a re-roll. NOTE: we are level 6, soon to be level 7, so rolling a wizard isn't quite the best solution. I was debating on creating a melee-combat focused druid at level 7, using an animal companion (tiger/lion) and then grapple ganging up on his character at some point.

Could anyone point me towards a build? I don't really roll optimized characters, so this is new ground for me. I'm going to have slightly less than the level 7 starting gold, but this is because the DM gives us a magic item that we come up with (within reason)

[Ansem]

1. I can see **** happening from this..., DM ought to talk to the group or atleast player in question about wanting to force-kill his character. As DM in this case is a simple *******...
2. Optimized player shouldnt be punished for the fact he is competent and the rest is not, if he is taken feats and features to advance his class that's fine and others shouldnt be bitching about having taken Tracks and Endurance over other feats that would positively impact your combat performance.
3. Have I mentioned the **** this will make in the party? Either talk this out or be prepared for discussions and even in-group fights and arguments OOC.

I just have to say..... the DM is a **** in this scenario and many I play with would have sent him to the door if he did that in our groups.

[mryodaman]

1. I can see **** happening from this..., DM ought to talk to the group or atleast player in question about wanting to force-kill his character. As DM in this case is a simple *******...
2. Optimized player shouldnt be punished for the fact he is competent and the rest is not, if he is taken feats and features to advance his class that's fine and others shouldnt be bitching about having taken Tracks and Endurance over other feats that would positively impact your combat performance.
3. Have I mentioned the **** this will make in the party? Either talk this out or be prepared for discussions and even in-group fights and arguments OOC.

I just have to say..... the DM is a **** in this scenario and many I play with would have sent him to the door if he did that in our groups.

Wow, uh... thats really harsh. We are a group of casual players, who don't expect nor require knowledge of the ins and outs of your character necessary to reach its full potential. It's a group of people ranging from those who have played since AD&D to those who had their first session on Saturday night. We've had this discussion multiple times, and each time he comes back with a similarly optimized character. This isn't really the discussion I showed up to have however, so if you are not willing to help me, just go read another thread please.

[Craft (Cheese)]

As already said, this is a really antagonistic way to go about solving this problem and is likely to just make matters worse. What's probably going to happen is the Kensai Magus player is going to come back with an even more optimized character to kill your character, and it'll just start an arms race.

This is an OOC problem and it needs an OOC solution: Have the DM talk to the player and say "Hey, dude, your character is way too strong, and it's really hard to design adventures for such an imbalanced party. Could you maybe tone it back a little?" If it doesn't work and you can't come to a compromise, maybe he should find another group. Killing his character won't do anything but sour your friendship.

That said, if you're going to ignore this advice and do this anyway, here's what I'd do for a melee-focused druid: Go Saurian Shaman (Wild Shape at Druid Level + 2 for Dinosaurs, Druid Level - 2 for all other wild shape forms) and turn into an Allosaurus (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalMonsters/dinosaur.html#_dinosaur,-allosaurus). Go into combat pre-buffed with Greater Magic Fang and the like and he won't stand a chance.

[Ansem]

If you don't want to take my advice that's your problem.
I'm just saying your DM's actions are stupid and will cause problems and should be prevented.
ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE A GROUP OF CASUAL PLAYERS.
I mean, if you are not smart enough to realize that players wouldnt like there characters die because DM wants to for no other apparent reason then "I dont like his character" then people will get pissed.
What if your character suddenly dies, just lighting from heaven DC 2000 reflex save or gazillion damage. That's bull, and game breaking. The DM is stepping outside his role here and is no longer the impartial story teller but being a jerk who just wants to screw over his players.
If you are not willing to listen or not smart enough to understand basic consequences from actions thats your problem and you shouldn't be posting here, I despise hypocrites.

Bottom line, either talk this out or set aside this idea as it will only cause trouble. In a high experienced group even things are talked out and if not DM jacks up monsters and see where this goes, but never is a DM allowed to take final god-calls concerning whether PC's live or not. NEVER.

[Sir Chuckles]

1. I can see **** happening from this..., DM ought to talk to the group or atleast player in question about wanting to force-kill his character. As DM in this case is a simple *******...
2. Optimized player shouldnt be punished for the fact he is competent and the rest is not, if he is taken feats and features to advance his class that's fine and others shouldnt be bitching about having taken Tracks and Endurance over other feats that would positively impact your combat performance.
3. Have I mentioned the **** this will make in the party? Either talk this out or be prepared for discussions and even in-group fights and arguments OOC.

I just have to say..... the DM is a **** in this scenario and many I play with would have sent him to the door if he did that in our groups.

Not everyone is a Min/Maxer for every single one of their characters. DnD isn't all combat. No need to be so harsh.

But the grain of truth here is that outright killing him might not be the best course of action.
The only time I could see actually asking one of my players to kill another PC is said player is on a munchkin powertrip and I don't want to risk a TKO. I HAVE done that twice before. Only one of my players is good at optimizing, but one knows how to jam everything into strength and then use Flurry of Blows on minions, so he thinks he's a god. The guy who's good at optimizing likes roleplay and skill checks more, but has shown up "I just rolled four 18s on my character sheet that I rolled at home with no witnesses" when it counts.

If it's a genuine issue in that the entire group dislikes him dominating the combat, you have three options, from best to worst:

Ask the DM to pull focus away from combat. This might simply make him switch characters (The Strength guy in that spoiler does this if one of his characters goes south.) to one optimized to the current line of story (He'll roll up a Tracker or a skillmonkey focuses on Forgery), or it could force him to become a benchwarmer for a bit.

If everyone is in agreement that it is a genuine problem, Again, I've had this as both a DM and a player. Playing a heavily optimized charger in group where three of the players are know for having awful characters (I hadn't been a player in soooo long, I wanted to go all out) ended with me having to tone it back BIG TIME, as I was turning a classic OotS vs Linear Guild encounter into a one-man roflstomp. talk to the guy at either an intermission or beginning of a session bringing up that "Hey, I know you can build a nice and powerful character, but I can't throw enemies at you to challenge you. It'll either kill everyone BUT you, or everyone will just sit on the sidelines. If I try to challenge everyone, you kill everyone. You're a party, a group, not Elvis and is groupies. Tone it back, please."

The third, and worst, option is the one stated originally. Killing him.

[mangosta71]

It may be harsh, but it's not wrong. PvP may develop through roleplay, but it should never be the goal unless it's an explicitly PvP game. It's one thing for the DM to kill a character - it's quite another for the DM to ask one of his players to create a character for the sole purpose of killing another PC. If the DM doesn't want a character that powerful, he can veto the build during creation. Traits and flaws are optional rules that the DM doesn't have to permit. And finally, the party can only find the magic items that the DM expressly permits them to find. Also, Craft (Cheese) is right about the probable resulting arms race.

If you decide to go through with it despite all recommendations to the contrary, look up an ubercharger build. And may Vecna have mercy on your soul.

[anacalgion]

No no no. See, you're going about all wrong. Killing him will only stress everyone and fracture the group and all these nasty things. My suggestion would be to roll up a battlefield control wizard. Lock down encounters. Make him obsolete. I guarantee it'll be more satisfying.

Although, you might want to talk to people OOC. I make no judgement on you or your group, but player murdering generally solves nothing.