[3.5e/PF]How much multiclassing is required to create a thoroughly useless character?

[Isamu Dyson]

How many base classes/prestige classes can you cram into twenty levels that results in a character which is the biggest mess of class features in D&D 3.5/Pathfinder?

[holywhippet]

Are we going for completely useless or just a bad combo of class features? You could go for a lot of classes that don't start with any BAB on the first level for the former but you'd pick up skill ranks (which you could dump into pointless skills like craft and profession I suppose).

You could make a lot of class features a waste by equipment choice. Like levels in sacred fist but make them wield a weapon so they lose all of said class features.

[Slipperychicken]

For useless, you don't need much milticlassing at all. Commoner20 gets you a pretty dang useless character. No class features, 1/2 BAB, bad saves, the worst hit die (d4 in 3.5, d6 in PF), bad skills, and no proficiencies aside from a single simple weapon.

At least with multiclassing you wind up with at least one decent save, class features, proficiencies, and bunch of class skills.

Of course, with multiclass XP penalties (no one uses them, but still) IIRC you can make a character who doesn't gain experience at all.

[Isamu Dyson]

Are we going for completely useless or just a bad combo of class features?

Either route is fine.

[bekeleven]

Obligitory Mountebank 20. It even tops Risen Martyr 10 for terribleness.

[johnbragg]

Well, you can build a spellcaster that can't cast high level spells.

Sorcerer 5/Wizard 4/Bard 6/Cleric 4/Ranger 1. That actually gives you BAB +12/+7/+2, Fort +10, Ref +10 Will +17.

Spells per Day:
Sorcerer 6/4, Wizard 3/2, Bard 3/2, Cleric 3+1/2+1.

[Isamu Dyson]

Well, you can build a spellcaster that can't cast high level spells.

Sorcerer 5/Wizard 4/Bard 6/Cleric 4/Ranger 1. That actually gives you BAB +12/+7/+2, Fort +10, Ref +10 Will +17.

Spells per Day:
Sorcerer 6/4, Wizard 3/2, Bard 3/2, Cleric 3+1/2+1.

We might have a winner!

This character is a terrible combatant and has very meager buffing spells.

[Isamu Dyson]

In theory, aren't players that multiclass as much as possible supposed to have characters as equally viable as those that didn't?

[Blueiji]

In theory, aren't players that multiclass as much as possible supposed to have characters as equally viable as those that didn't?

Yes, in theory this should be true. However, in practice it doesn't always work out. This is due to most high-level class features and spells be exponentially (rather than linearly) better than lower-level material.

[holywhippet]

In theory, aren't players that multiclass as much as possible supposed to have characters as equally viable as those that didn't?

In theory yes because in 3rd edition they act like all classes are created equal. In practice no. For one thing spellcasters like clerics, druids and wizards get just about exponentially better with level. As such a character who has no high level spells but a lot of different low levels spells will be a lot worse than off than someone who sticks with a class and gets high levels spells.

Also, some classes just don't blend well together. Arcane casters aren't usually meant to wear heavy armor and front line fighters aren't usually meant to not wear heavy armor. You could make a barbarian/sorcerer for example but you can't cast spells after triggering your rage class feature or wear most armor when trying to cast spells.

[Particle_Man]

Dwarf cleric 1/druid 3/wizard 3/sorcerer 3/psion 3/wilder 3.

I know the character is only 16th level, but with a 100% xp penalty them's the breaks! ;)

Or maybe cleric 1/druid 3/wizard 3/psion 3/sorcerer 5 would achieve the same effect in 15 levels (actually it might lose xp, I dunno).

The other thing to do is to minimize BAB. 1 level each in commoner/expert/aristrocrat/adept/bard/cleric/druid/monk/rogue/sorcerer/wizard/psion/soulknife/wilder/psychic warrior/incarnate/totemist/shukenja/wu jen/favoured soul. I assume the character's alignment changes midstream to screw him out of his bard abilities.

[Sir Chuckles]

You could make a barbarian/sorcerer for example but you can't cast spells after triggering your rage class feature or wear most armor when trying to cast spells.

Do we count Prestige Classes here?
Because Rage Mage is a thing. And you could be a self-buffing Sorc.

But honestly, I'd go with NPC classes. Warrior/Commoner would be utterly useless. Not as bad as straight Commoner, but we're talking cross class.

I'd say clashing alignments would be a big issue. Paladin to Druid? Atonment is a thing though...

[Tve]

Hmm, not quite sure if it would work as I am AFB right now, but possibly something involving a high level Monster Class (Savage Species) and Dragonborn of Bahamut?
..are the features from the Monster Class still racial features? In that case, I think that combination would net you 20 levels of.. well, nothing, except some stat increases and a flight speed or darkvision.. xD

Alternatively, a low level Monster Class combined with the Legacy Champion prestige class "advancing" the monster class (doing nothing..) might do the trick.
Something like a Drow Monster Class / Legacy Champion 10 / Something to round it of..

[Deremir]

On the compleatly random premis that there are a a total of 43 classes

Just be 20/43rds of every class!:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Mr. Whatever]

You could also do something like put some levels into bard, then switch to paladin for a level. Requires you to be lawful, so you lose your bard abilities. Then throw in a wizard level, a sorcerer level, a witch level. Lots of fun stuff that conflict!

[Lightlawbliss]

Dwarf cleric 1/druid 3/wizard 3/sorcerer 3/psion 3/wilder 3.

...

Or maybe cleric 1/druid 3/wizard 3/psion 3/sorcerer 5 would achieve the same effect in 15 levels (actually it might lose xp, I dunno).
...

most of those classes are the same level in both of those. IIRC, multiclassing worrys about classes away from the main group.

[Particle_Man]

most of those classes are the same level in both of those. IIRC, multiclassing worrys about classes away from the main group.

I thought the issue was a level 1 in class a gives a 20% penalty for being too far from class b, another 20% penalty for being too far from class c, etc.

Trouble is, I am away from my manual, and this is one of the few things that isn't covered in the online srd.

[OldTrees1]

In reference to Pun Pun (the most powerful), someone made Nup Nup (the least powerful). IIRC it can take a single standard action at the cost of falling unconscious and dying.