Can I have MW or enchanted Throwing Vials?

[Phaederkiel]

Well, can I?

I want to have something which gives Quickdraw on my alchemic Fires and acids, as to avoid the feat. So either a weapon crystal, or some enchantment.
(bonus question: what enchantment? Is there one? Is there one in core?)


To enchant or crystal-stud my vials, i need them to be masterwork. But i am not very sure i can have them as MW.
Are Vials ammunition and thus enchantable and MWable in stacks?


The playground, i feel it, can help me.

[Captnq]

Yup, it's in HERE (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9053.msg183871#msg183871).

Look up Simple thrown ammunition.

[Rubik]

Try asking your DM for a masterwork potion bandoleer. Price it as a masterwork weapon. It'll allow for the drawing of potions and oils and whatnot as a swift action. I'd say it'd hold up to 20 vials at a time, and cost, what, around 325 gp or so? You could apply a weapon crystal to it for drawing as a free action, or enhance it with other effects, such as enhancement bonuses or the distance quality. That'd be cool.

Of course, this is something I came up with off the top of my head, and there may be something official floating out there that I don't know about.

[Phaederkiel]

captnq, i read through the part of your file (what a great resource, by the way! Thanks!), but i am still not sure.

What i can understand from what you write is, that it is very complicated.

and you also have thrown splash weapons as an separate entry, which makes me unsure about their qualifications as ammunition.
I am pretty sure that I can not draw the free as i can draw shurikens...

and this is due to their size. These vials are quite a bit bigger than potions, which is why i am reluctant to use the Potion belt.

[Thrawn183]

I would just use them in an enchanted sling. That should get the job done.

[Phaederkiel]

i need the touch attacks of splash weapons.

[Malak'ai]

No. No you can't have nice things :smalltongue:.

In all seriousness, a flask of acid/alchemist fire/holy water/whatever weighs the same as a dagger, so having a belt or bandoleer with a number of them hanging from your waist/shoulder isn't that hard to justify.

[Vhaidara]

I don't know about quick draw, but I think you could get a Gnomish Calculus (Arms and Equipment Guide, sling for alchemical weapons) and one of those fancy quivers that lets you store and then pull out whatever ammo you want. Maybe repurpose the Quick Loading crossbow enchantment (same book) to work for slings (you get an extradimensional storage space for ammo that autoreloads when needed)

[Phaederkiel]

as long as i have no RAW ability to make the calculus auto-reload, i cannot take it.

I need specifically a RAW answer to the problem. That many DMs will just say yes to alchemical Items as Ammunition is obvious, but not enough.

The problem is that the srd does not exactly list the Alchemicals as ammunition. It lists them as a kind of hybrid, an improvised weapon that anyone can use.


asside question: does the Calculus still deliver touch attacks?

[Vhaidara]

Well, the calculus specifically uses things like Alchemist's fire and acid as ammo. I don't think you will find a RAW statement that directly makes alchemical items ammo, though.

As far as the function of the calculus, all it does is give you a 50-ft range increment. Otherwise, it functions as the alchemical item.

[Vedhin]

Try asking your DM for a masterwork potion bandoleer. Price it as a masterwork weapon. It'll allow for the drawing of potions and oils and whatnot as a swift action. I'd say it'd hold up to 20 vials at a time, and cost, what, around 325 gp or so?

Of course, this is something I came up with off the top of my head, and there may be something official floating out there that I don't know about.

Sounds like the masterwork potion belt from the FRCS. 10 potion capacity, and presumably vials, for 60gp. Oh, and the action is free.

Use the Gnome Calculus as an enchantment platform.

[Rubik]

Sounds like the masterwork potion belt from the FRCS. 10 potion capacity, and presumably vials, for 60gp. Oh, and the action is free.

Use the Gnome Calculus as an enchantment platform.This would work just fine, then. Use the belt and the calculus, and you could get everything I suggested and more.

[Phaederkiel]

the problem with the potion belt (as Curmudgeon pointed out), is that potions are one ounce, while vials are on pint.

That is quite a big difference in size, so i think a dm has the right to say no to it.


The calculus has more chances. at the very least, you could get a dozen MW calculi, preload them, and put weapon crystals in them. So you can bombard an opponent while getting new weapons easily.

problems:
I see a dm taking offense of having a sling which shoots touch ammo.
At higher levels you will quickly run out of slings. it is much cheaper to enchant 50 pieces of ammo than 50 slings.
last but not least: this weapon is exotic, is it not? which means either eating -4 to the attacks, or getting its proficiency via feat. Then i could just take quickdraw.


and: can you fire a sling onehanded?

[TuggyNE]

Seems to me casting masterwork transformation (possibly chained) should do the job rather well.

[Uhtred]

I'm away from PHB at the moment, but I recall empty vials, potions, fluid alchemicals like Alchemist's Fire, and magic oils all being one-ounce containers, and therefore potion belt-compatible. Flasks and bottles have the one-pint volume, but I'm not rightly sure that if you're lobbing alchemist's fire or whatnot that it's in one of those. When you say Throwing Vials, are those a thing? Or do you just mean the standard alchemicals and potions?

[TuggyNE]

I'm away from PHB at the moment, but I recall empty vials, potions, fluid alchemicals like Alchemist's Fire, and magic oils all being one-ounce containers, and therefore potion belt-compatible. Flasks and bottles have the one-pint volume, but I'm not rightly sure that if you're lobbing alchemist's fire or whatnot that it's in one of those. When you say Throwing Vials, are those a thing? Or do you just mean the standard alchemicals and potions?

Alchemist's fire and acid weigh a pound per flask, so it's clear that they can't be the one-ounce variants.

[Uhtred]

Alchemist's fire and acid weigh a pound per flask, so it's clear that they can't be the one-ounce variants.

Ah, yes. And now that I'm back with books, all that has been said is right thus far, potion belt from FRCS holds objects of up to dagger size, which your flasks fit into nicely, and drawing is a free action once a round. I'd also like to add that alchemical sling bullets exist, a sling is a simple weapon, and enchanting a sling should work just like any other weapon. And you may fire, but not load, a sling with one hand. Using one to lob a pound vial is probably out, though, unless you're Large-size or using Strongarm Bracers to pretend that you are.

[TuggyNE]

Using one to lob a pound vial is probably out, though, unless you're Large-size or using Strongarm Bracers to pretend that you are.

Meh, standard sling bullets are 0.5 lb each, and WP indicates historical slingstones have varied wildly in weight to at least a pound each, so it shouldn't be too bad.

[Phaederkiel]

the real question is still:

are alchemist fire & their ilk ammunition and can thus be enchanted?




Objects upt the size of one dagger can range in about one pound, i think.
Which means that the belt is perhaps an option. Still, that only allows for one free draw per round, and at the latest when imp. 2weapon-fighting comes online, this build wants to draw as many as possible freely.


Perhaps one could use a quiver of elonha (...? ), this gives some kind of quickdraw for long, stafflike objects. Vials could be long and stafflike.