Help with an "Assassin"

[darklink_shadow]

So I want to make an "assassin" type character. A "sneak in alone, kill the mark, and get out" type guy. He's going to be used rarely, but he'll usually act alone when he does anything.

He's going to be a level 10. Allowed books are all published 3.5 content. 28 PB, and NPC wealth per level.

Now, he's going to be going up against enemies potentially as powerful as level 12 fully optimized character, however, being an assassin, he should get the jump on his targets, and I'd like him to capitalize on that enough to be able to kill things as needed.

My current idea was for a Halfling (Strongheart) and go Ninja 3 / Halfing Paragon 2 / Sword Sage 2 / Master Thrower 3

Gives me 2d6 Sudden strike and invisibility a number of rounds equal to 1+WIS mod from Ninja (Invis is until end of turn, so I can full attack against people who can see me for Sudden Strike and Sneak Attack damage), +2 damage with thrown weapons from Halfling Paragon, 2d6 Sneak attack from Assassin Stance from Swordsage, and then double my thrown daggers per round with Master Thrower, in addition to Tripping on Hit.

But that might not be the best. And maybe melee sneak attacking is better than thrown. I don't rightly know. I just know I want a high Dex or high Str assassin. (Highest between those two stats gives a bonus to my nation, as per Nation rules for the game I am playing in)

I've recently discovered I am not much good at optimizing, and I'd like a pretty good character, because the majority of the people who are also playing are very good optimizers. Hopefully, this assassin won't ever need to target one of them, but he might target and NPC's nationals. And his stat bonus increases my nation's loyalty (out of fear of persecution of treason, I guess!)

So, I guess, just give me some idea, or point me in a good direction.

[Waker]

Am I understanding that this is supposed to be an NPC ally to the party?
An alternate approach to the unorthodox assassin could be to use a Scout with the Hidden Stalker ACF, Mosquito's Bite skill trick and the Spring Attack feat. Combining the three when in a crowded area can let you walk by your target, attack with a concealed/small weapon and continue walking by. The target won't realize they've been hit until the next round, by which time you've already moved away and hidden in the crowd. Using that strategy, you can whittle down a target who has no idea what's happening.

[darklink_shadow]

That's... interesting! However, I was hoping for something more orthodox. The assassin has the noble task of killing people as they give speeches, or while they are sleeping. But I really like your idea as well, and I'd hope to use it, but as much as I want to include that, it still has to do the primary tasks.

[Tysis]

For your purposes, does dragon mag and compendium count as published 3.5 content?

How do you feel about crossbows?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Stupid question; what's wrong with the assassin PrC? Death attack is the only way, short of tremendous damage, to gank someone in a single strike. Pick up an assassin's dagger and bracers of murder, then rev up your int for a pimped save dc and knife guys that need knifing in one go.

[darklink_shadow]

For your purposes, does dragon mag and compendium count as published 3.5 content?

How do you feel about crossbows?

Compendium yes, dragon mag is probably yes. Crossbows are fine. I'm indifferent to them.


Stupid question; what's wrong with the assassin PrC? Death attack is the only way, short of tremendous damage, to gank someone in a single strike. Pick up an assassin's dagger and bracers of murder, then rev up your int for a pimped save dc and knife guys that need knifing in one go.

I don't really know, I've never really like the assassin before. Also, I'm not convinced assassins have to be evil. But the biggest thing I didn't like was the "melee only" but... hey, doesn't a quick bloodstorm blade dip let me count thrown weapons as melee? I could study from a distance, then hurl a shuriken at them for a death attack.

EDIT: Oh, I know why. DC 10+Assassin level + int mod is a low, low DC to break.

[Waker]

The traditional sniper concept is harder to manage in D&D since the system doesn't play nice with ranged combat. Should you go the route of a sniper, you'll want to get access to Sniper's Shot to increase your sneak attack range. There are a few ways to gain the spell and increase SA dice, the best of which is taking levels in Assassin or Unseen Seer.
Killing people while they sleep is usually accomplish by cranking your stealth skills to 11 as well as your other infiltration skills.
A simple example of such a build might be dip into Halfling Rogue with the racial ACF along with the Mimic and Quick Fingers ACFs. Then take some levels of Beguiler, followed up with Unseen Seer. Take the Dark Stalker feat when able. You'd have ample skills, access to plenty of illusions and other useful magic for infiltrating or bypassing defenses.
Halfling Rogue 1/Beguiler 4/Unseen Seer 5.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Compendium yes, dragon mag is probably yes. Crossbows are fine. I'm indifferent to them.



I don't really know, I've never really like the assassin before. Also, I'm not convinced assassins have to be evil. But the biggest thing I didn't like was the "melee only" but... hey, doesn't a quick bloodstorm blade dip let me count thrown weapons as melee? I could study from a distance, then hurl a shuriken at them for a death attack.

Bloodstorm Blade is an option but there's a spell on the assassin spell list in the spell compendium that let's you deliver a death attack at range.

One of the coolest "assassins" I've seen was a sniper that could deliver his death attack from a ridiculous distance with a dc of "you die now."

[darklink_shadow]

Ok, how do I boost the DC?

[Waker]

Ability Focus (Death Attack), Kelb mentioned the Assassin's Dagger and Bracers of Murder. Those are the only one's that I can think of off hand.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Improving your int is top of the list. Sticking to the PrC or one of the few that stack for death attack is also important. You might also look at quiet debuffs like the hexblade's curse (though not necessarily that one in particular).

[darklink_shadow]

Alright, so for going the assassin route, maybe Rogue 3 / Warblade 2/ Bloodstorm Blade 2/ Assassin 3?

Rogue 3 for 2d6 sneak attack, Warblade for the Iron Heart Prereqs for BB, Bloodstorm Blade for the ability to treat dagger tossing as melee, and finally Assassin for a DC 15+Int mod save or die attack? (Once I get those 2 items and the feat, of course.)

That seems pretty solid! For race, would halfling still be better?

Sorry my replies are so slow, my internet is coming in and out.

Or, Kelb seems to think perhaps a different base class. As it stands, I dont need rogue for anything. Which base class would be best? Perhaps hexblade?

[Tysis]

Rogue3/Targeteer Fighter2/Assassin5

Feats:
Human:point blank shot
Flaw:rapid reload
Flaw:rapid shot
1:precise shot
3:dead eye
Fighter:Vital aim
Fighter:weapon focus(light crossbow)
6:crossbow sniper
9:craven

you get 3 attacks with 5d6+10 from sneak attack(out to 60ft or more if using spells) and you can add your dex mod to damage on each shot 2.5 times or 3.5 times if your crossbow has the fierce enchantment.

Edit: forget fierce, get a splitting crossbow, now you get 6 attacks

[Kelb_Panthera]

Thanks to assassin's stance, pretty much every class with hide and move silently as class skills can get into assassin. Swordsage is good. Frankly I'd rather just get a wand of sniper's eye than detract from the focus of the character with levels in warblade and bloodstorm blade.

BTW, I could only find three classes that have a death attack that stacks with assassin's.

1) Black Dog; from dragonmarked.
2) Imaskari Vengeance Taker; from underdark
3) Telflammar Shadowlord; from unapproachable east.

Edit: don't know why I thought assassin required sneak attack.

[darklink_shadow]

What about.... Factotum 1/Monk 2/ Spellthief 1/ Halfling Rogue 1/ Assassin 5?

I didn't realize what Sniper's Eye actually did before. I'll get a dozen wands of it, or figure out a way to have it permanencied. Then get a spellbreaker, or whichever, enchantment to a weapon to be immune to dispel.

The mix of classes gives a lot of benefits. Invisible Fist Monk lets me go invisible for 1 round every 3. Factotum lets me, twice per encounter, add +int to many different die rolls. Spellthief... does something, and the feat master spell theif lets me pretend I have +assassin levels in spell thief for stealing spells. And Halfling rogue get bonus SA with thrown nd less with melee.

Seems pretty solid.

[Twilightwyrm]

Am I understanding that this is supposed to be an NPC ally to the party?
An alternate approach to the unorthodox assassin could be to use a Scout with the Hidden Stalker ACF, Mosquito's Bite skill trick and the Spring Attack feat. Combining the three when in a crowded area can let you walk by your target, attack with a concealed/small weapon and continue walking by. The target won't realize they've been hit until the next round, by which time you've already moved away and hidden in the crowd. Using that strategy, you can whittle down a target who has no idea what's happening.

I would just like to add that this is a pretty awesome concept, and I hope you do not mind if I steal it. Where is the Hidden Stalker ACF by the way? I cannot seem to remember/find it.

[Tysis]

What about.... Factotum 1/Monk 2/ Spellthief 1/ Halfling Rogue 1/ Assassin 5?




But you would only have +4 bab wouldn't you?

[darklink_shadow]

But you would only have +4 bab wouldn't you?

Fractional BAB is always in place. Because not having it is dumb.

[Tve]

What kind of targets is the guy going to be taking down?

I'm assuming it won't include plants/oozes/undeads/constructs/etc.

If that's the case, you could take a look at Ghost-Faced Killer (CAdv).
It gets a Death Attack, only it requires Power Attack, is based of Charisma instead of Int, and is a Fear-based Mind-Affecting attack.
Ghost-Faced Killer also comes with full BAB, which is nice :)

The Ghost-Faced Killer version could be something like:

Paladin of Tyranny 3 / Something 2 / Ghost-Faced Killer 5.
For feats, you'll need Improved Initiative and Power Attack.
I would also go for Craven (from Champions of Ruin).

An Assassination by this Character would consist of Ghostwalking through a wall, delivering one massive blow (Some kind of two-handed weapon with power attack, +2d6 Sudden Strike +10 (Craven) and possibly adding Smite Good to the mix).
The target would have to make a Will DC 15 + Cha, or die from fear, and everyone witnessing it, must make a Will DC 15 + Cha + bonus damage fro m PA on the initial attack, or become Panicken (if HD <Ghost-Faced level+CHa) or Shaken (If HD > Ghost-Faced level + Cha), which hopefully will give the "assassin time to Ghost-Walk back through the wall..

[darklink_shadow]

I love that build! But unfortunately... he will be targeting things with more HD than his level potentially. And often. He might also run up against the undead at times. Still figuring out how to cope with that.

[Tysis]

I love that build! But unfortunately... he will be targeting things with more HD than his level potentially. And often. He might also run up against the undead at times. Still figuring out how to cope with that.

Wands of gravestrike

Also the build I posted earlier, assuming 18 dex, full attacks for +10/+10/+10/+10/+5/+5 for up to 6d8+30d6+120 damage(before crits) and can do that at 60ft, or out to 240ft before range penalties if using sniper's shot

[Tve]

Ah, what a shame :)
Well, the Frightening Strike should still kill the target - especially with the -2 to save from the Paladins Aura of Dispair..
The DC for the onlookers should be pretty high. 5 from level + 4'ish from Charisma + 2 for each to-hit you sack for PA (+3 if you take Leap Attack..)
Even if they are only Shaken, it should be relatively easy to Escalate the Fear effect, and make them Panicked/Covering instead.
Demoralize might be an options with the Never Outnumbered Skill Trick and a Fearsome (DotU) armor?

If the two open levels are spend smart, you might even be able to use a Hilt Hollow weapon, and pop of a Wraithstrike spell from a wand.

Well, for the regular Sneak Attacker / Crit guy, there's Deathstrike Bracers to circumvent the annoying immunities :)
..and also a spell somewhere in SC

[darklink_shadow]

Wands of gravestrike

Also the build I posted earlier, assuming 18 dex, full attacks for +10/+10/+10/+10/+5/+5 for up to 6d8+30d6+120 damage(before crits) and can do that at 60ft, or out to 240ft before range penalties if using sniper's shot
Crossbows are neat, and I like the build, but the crossbow itself is pricey. And I'd like to remind everyone that he gets NPC wealth.

Plus, have a bunch of attacks doesn't excite, I want one big attack that kills the target. And then to run away after. The one throw one kill dagger just sounds cooler, you know?

Also, the ghost faced dude cant use his bad-ass move against enemies with more hitdice. It just doesn't work.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I like a very simple swordsage 5 /assassin 10 / black dog 5. Int focus to get that death attack to its most deadly and shadow hand focus for the sneakiness and assassiny feel.

[Tve]

Ah, of cause.. I completely forgot that :)

Ok, so the goal is to have a level 10 guy, who can reliably one-shot 1 enemy of higher HD than himself, even if the target is undead/normally crit/sneak immune and be able to get to the target/back out without detection?
...and is limited to 14k worth of items.

Phew, that's not as simple as one would think ^^

Oh well, back to the books.. I'll see if I might be able to come up with something :)

[Socratov]

Just to help, I've got a death attack handbooklet here:

Click me! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178309)

it shows what classes offer which type of death attack (usually the same abilities stack with each other), when to enter that class and how to boost your DC and reduce their saves. It's not quite a complete handbook, but complete enough to help you on your way.

[Tysis]

Crossbows are neat, and I like the build, but the crossbow itself is pricey. And I'd like to remind everyone that he gets NPC wealth.

Plus, have a bunch of attacks doesn't excite, I want one big attack that kills the target. And then to run away after. The one throw one kill dagger just sounds cooler, you know?

Also, the ghost faced dude cant use his bad-ass move against enemies with more hitdice. It just doesn't work.

Where can I find npc wealth by level? I just know character wbl. Nevermind, I found it 16k.

I think the average hp for a cr 12 is 150. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
At level 10 I dont think an uber charger is quite one-shotting people, yet.

I'm not sure death attack is the way to go, the average fort save for cr12 is +15-18. Your death attack will likely have a dc of 18-22 at level 10.

[darklink_shadow]

I like a very simple swordsage 5 /assassin 10 / black dog 5. Int focus to get that death attack to its most deadly and shadow hand focus for the sneakiness and assassiny feel.

He's only level 10. And I at least think throwing in 2 levels of monk for the invisible fist AFC is very worthwhile. Rounds of invis let you hide.


Ah, of cause.. I completely forgot that :)

Ok, so the goal is to have a level 10 guy, who can reliably one-shot 1 enemy of higher HD than himself, even if the target is undead/normally crit/sneak immune and be able to get to the target/back out without detection?
...and is limited to 14k worth of items.

Phew, that's not as simple as one would think ^^

Oh well, back to the books.. I'll see if I might be able to come up with something :)

I appreciate the help! But I figure the strongest enemy he should have to face is level 12. And if the enemies get tougher, he will too. He's actually someone's cohort, so he's level - 2, really.



Just to help, I've got a death attack handbooklet here:

Click me! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178309)

it shows what classes offer which type of death attack (usually the same abilities stack with each other), when to enter that class and how to boost your DC and reduce their saves. It's not quite a complete handbook, but complete enough to help you on your way.

Neat! Look, Avenger is basically a non-evil assassin!


Where can I find npc wealth by level? I just know character wbl. Nevermind, I found it 16k.

I think the average hp for a cr 12 is 150. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
At level 10 I dont think an uber charger is quite one-shotting people, yet.

I'm not sure death attack is the way to go, the average fort save for cr12 is +15-18. Your death attack will likely have a dc of 18-22 at level 10.

Dc should be 10(base) + 5(levels) + 5( items and feats) + int mod. But you may have a point.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Where can I find npc wealth by level? I just know character wbl. Nevermind, I found it 16k.

I think the average hp for a cr 12 is 150. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
At level 10 I dont think an uber charger is quite one-shotting people, yet.

I don't know why you've brought them up, but an uber-charger certainly can one-shot things easily by 10.

Whirl-pounce barbarian at 1 then whatever full BaB you like 'till 10. Sprinkle on the standard suite of shocktrooper and leap attack. Str 18 +4 for whirling frenzy + 4 for girdle of giant Str +2 for level ups makes 28 for a +9 mod. Give him a +3 great axe (I like that it's swingy and its nasty crits) for an average of 9.5 damage from the weapon and the charge looks something like this.

9.5 +13 Str +30 leaping power attack makes 52.5 average damage per hit with an attack routine of +22/+22/+17. Three hits will kill most level appropriate enemies and that's before you pick up a valorous weapon or get a haste effect and that's if it survives a couple massive damage saves.

[Waker]

I would just like to add that this is a pretty awesome concept, and I hope you do not mind if I steal it. Where is the Hidden Stalker ACF by the way? I cannot seem to remember/find it.

Go crazy. Anything that I post in the forums is fair game to use, hence why I post it in a public forum. The ACF is from the Cityscape Web Enhancement here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a).
I would suggest that if you use this character against a party, make sure they are mostly good or at least in an area where the guards will be tough enough to prevent them from randomly butchering the local populace. That way the party can't immediately respond with "I'm dropping a fireball" or "I start cleaving."

[Tysis]

He's only level 10.

I appreciate the help! But I figure the strongest enemy he should have to face is level 12. And if the enemies get tougher, he will too. He's actually someone's cohort, so he's level - 2, really.

Dc should be 10(base) + 5(levels) + 5( items and feats) + int mod. But you may have a point.

I can help you make an npc that can kill in one round, but at that level it's beyond my system mastery to one shot enemies without some serious cheese.

You said you like the build I posted earlier, with just a normal light crossbow its full attack damage potential is 3d8+15d6+60, plenty of damage, though it still leaves you making multiple attacks. Using a wounding light crossbow will leave you with half your gold and make the npc incredibly deadly.


Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

9.5 +13 Str +30 leaping power attack makes 52.5 average damage per hit with an attack routine of +22/+22/+17 not really sure how 52.5 average damage kills something with 150 average hp. The op said one hit not one full attack/one round.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I can help you make an npc that can kill in one round, but at that level it's beyond my system mastery to one shot enemies without some serious cheese.

You said you like the build I posted earlier, with just a normal light crossbow its full attack damage potential is 3d8+15d6+60, plenty of damage, though it still leaves you making multiple attacks. Using a wounding light crossbow will leave you with half your gold and make the npc incredibly deadly.

not really sure how 52.5 average damage kills something with 150 average hp. The op said one hit not one full attack/one round.

Swap the greataxe for a valorous falchion and improved critical. Around 100 damage average with a 30ish percent chance to hit 200+. Nevermind the afformentioned massive damage save. Besides, the build skeleton I gave is far from a finished build. I could do something more complete with a mounted paladin that can hit that 200 a bit more consistently. That's even further from what the op wants I suspect, however.

[Tysis]

Swap the greataxe for a valorous falchion and improved critical. Around 100 damage average with a 30ish percent chance to hit 200+. Nevermind the afformentioned massive damage save. Besides, the build skeleton I gave is far from a finished build.
A DC 15 Fort save is trivial for enemies that average +15-18fort.



I could do something more complete with a mounted paladin that can hit that 200 a bit more consistently. That's even further from what the op wants I suspect, however.
I agree and the ubercharger reference I made was more to point out how difficult it can be for characters to one-shot things without optimizing power attack, than to say its impossible by any means.

[darklink_shadow]

So, it appears the idea of an assassin who slays his foes in one fell swoop is unreasonable then, huh?

A charger is definitely not what I want. I definitely want someone sneaky, with either a high dependency on dex or str. I may have set my heights too high, but something that can break into ye olde castle, murder the wizard-king, and get out without being spotted. One shorting seemed pretty important for that. I'd also like him to be able to kill the preacher whole he gives his sermon, and still escape. Those things are the real design goals.

Not that I have a specific wizard or cleric in mind, or that he shouldn't be able to take down the iron golem bouncer outside his favorite club either. He should be able to kill all 3. And hopefully without getting caught doing so.

[Kelb_Panthera]

So, it appears the idea of an assassin who slays his foes in one fell swoop is unreasonable then, huh?

A charger is definitely not what I want. I definitely want someone sneaky, with either a high dependency on dex or str. I may have set my heights too high, but something that can break into ye olde castle, murder the wizard-king, and get out without being spotted. One shorting seemed pretty important for that. I'd also like him to be able to kill the preacher whole he gives his sermon, and still escape. Those things are the real design goals.

Not that I have a specific wizard or cleric in mind, or that he shouldn't be able to take down the iron golem bouncer outside his favorite club either. He should be able to kill all 3. And hopefully without getting caught doing so.

Like I said, one-shotting via damage is unreasonable for anything but chargers and casters. You're basically stuck with death attack or a spell for insta-gibbing targets.

5 levels in something sneaky, 5 levels in assassin and pimp that DC. Factotum's int to damage is a solid option. I like the swordsage's ability to bypass normal damage methods. Since you like range, an archery ranger can do nicely with hunter's mercy to auto crit on the bow shot. Magic arrows are cheap too.

[Tysis]

So, it appears the idea of an assassin who slays his foes in one fell swoop is unreasonable then, huh?

A charger is definitely not what I want. I definitely want someone sneaky, with either a high dependency on dex or str. I may have set my heights too high, but something that can break into ye olde castle, murder the wizard-king, and get out without being spotted. One shorting seemed pretty important for that. I'd also like him to be able to kill the preacher whole he gives his sermon, and still escape. Those things are the real design goals.

Not that I have a specific wizard or cleric in mind, or that he shouldn't be able to take down the iron golem bouncer outside his favorite club either. He should be able to kill all 3. And hopefully without getting caught doing so.

Well if you're still interested the build I posted does all of that, with the exception of needing a full attack instead of a single attack.

The assassin spell list gives you invisibility if you are worried about hide/move silently not being able to get the job done and with truestrike and sniper's shot you can sneak attack a king making a speech from a balcony from outside the walls of the castle.

A wand of golemstrike lets you deal with pesky minions, and the build is perfectly fine with any light crossbow so you can spend your gold as you desire.

Assassin and avenger are interchangeable in the build as long as the avenger gets the assassin spells from the spell compendium.

Edit:Also of note this character would be able to use death attack at range starting at level 11, and while it wont be as useful against many cr12 monsters it should work wonders against aristocrats and the like. So definitely pump int, both for death attack, skill points, and spells.

[Tve]

Ok, this is a rather different take on it, but it might work :)

Concept
A Cleric impersonating death! Like, literally a guy in a black robe with a scythe.. :smallbiggrin:

Stats (28 point buy)
Str 16 Dex 8 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 16 (14+2) Cha 10

Levels
Cloistered Cleric 3 / Church Inquisitor 6 / Master of Masks 1
Master of Masks taken at level 9, choosing Assassin mask and something else..

Domains
He will have to be worshiping a concept, in this case "Assassination" or some such should do, granting him access to both Trickery and Planning.
Cloistered Cleric grants him Knowledge Domain. CI gives him Inquisition, which is swapped for Knowledge Devotion.

Feats
Power Attack, Persistent Spell, DMM [Persist], Extra Turning, Craven, Extend Spell (d), Knowledge Devotion (d).

Gear
Nightstick (7,5k), Scythe +1 (2k)

Ok, so here's the drill:
Someone needs to die. "The Death Impersonater" finds his mark (maybe using some sort of scrying magic?). He uses Invisibility and other illusion spells to infiltrate where ever his target might be.
He uses DMM to persist Divine Power and Surge of Fortune.
When he finds his target, he activates his Surge of Fortune to get a Natural 20 on his attack roll.
With 22 str (16 + 6 from Divine Power) that makes 9 str + 10 Crave + 20 PA * 4 = 156 damage plus any extra gained from Knowledge Devotion.

Imagine anyone witnessing the assassination! :smallbiggrin:
Out of nowhere pops a black robed figure with a scythe, who brutally slays someone, then disappears again...

[Tysis]

Ok, this is a rather different take on it, but it might work :)

Concept
A Cleric impersonating death! Like, literally a guy in a black robe with a scythe.. :smallbiggrin:

Stats (28 point buy)
Str 16 Dex 8 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 16 (14+2) Cha 10

Levels
Cloistered Cleric 3 / Church Inquisitor 6 / Master of Masks 1
Master of Masks taken at level 9, choosing Assassin mask and something else..

Domains
He will have to be worshiping a concept, in this case "Assassination" or some such should do, granting him access to both Trickery and Planning.
Cloistered Cleric grants him Knowledge Domain. CI gives him Inquisition, which is swapped for Knowledge Devotion.

Feats
Power Attack, Persistent Spell, DMM [Persist], Extra Turning, Craven, Extend Spell (d), Knowledge Devotion (d).

Gear
Nightstick (7,5k), Scythe +1 (2k)

Ok, so here's the drill:
Someone needs to die. "The Death Impersonater" finds his mark (maybe using some sort of scrying magic?). He uses Invisibility and other illusion spells to infiltrate where ever his target might be.
He uses DMM to persist Divine Power and Surge of Fortune.
When he finds his target, he activates his Surge of Fortune to get a Natural 20 on his attack roll.
With 22 str (16 + 6 from Divine Power) that makes 9 str + 10 Crave + 20 PA * 4 = 156 damage plus any extra gained from Knowledge Devotion.

Imagine anyone witnessing the assassination! :smallbiggrin:
Out of nowhere pops a black robed figure with a scythe, who brutally slays someone, then disappears again...

I like it, scry and die with style.

[Grayson01]

You can save a feat slot or get rid of a flaw by taking Handcrossboww focus and use a hand cross bow. It counts as weapon focus for the handcrossbow and rapid reload as well. It is found in the Drow of The Underdark (or Underdark) AFB right now but I know it's in one of those.



Rogue3/Targeteer Fighter2/Assassin5

Feats:
Human:point blank shot
Flaw:rapid reload
Flaw:rapid shot
1:precise shot
3:dead eye
Fighter:Vital aim
Fighter:weapon focus(light crossbow)
6:crossbow sniper
9:craven

you get 3 attacks with 5d6+10 from sneak attack(out to 60ft or more if using spells) and you can add your dex mod to damage on each shot 2.5 times or 3.5 times if your crossbow has the fierce enchantment.

Edit: forget fierce, get a splitting crossbow, now you get 6 attacks

[Red Fel]

Depending on how autonomous your assassin is designed to be, and how outside of the box you want to think, have you considered the Ruby Knight Vindicator?

The RKV is a PrC from ToB (all the letters, OMG) - it's basically the Church Enforcer of Wee Jas. Which means you can play him as LN, LE, or even LG if that's your thing - although assassination tends to go poorly with G (but see Slayer of Domiel). He doesn't need Sneak Attack or Death Attack or any of those methods. He kills people the old-fashioned way - with weapons. And Maneuvers.

Oh, goodness, the things you could do with Shadow Hand. All of the things.

Start by taking a one-level Cloistered Cleric dip. You want Cloistered, because even though the BAB stinks on ice, you get Knowledge as a bonus domain. Convert that immediately into Knowledge Devotion for easy damage boosts. Get some Nightsticks to fuel your Turn/Rebuke uses. Switch to Crusader. Note that just because a class can use heavier armors doesn't mean that you have to. Take your Devoted Spirit stuff for the prerequisites, some Stone Dragon to overcome DR, and lots of White Raven to break action economy. As soon as you can, start taking RKV.

In RKV, you get Shadow Hand maneuvers. Milk that. If you're not confident that you can get all the Shadow Hand goodness you want, dip Swordsage and take a big batch of them.

Now, RKV is going to give you a lot of options. Divine Recovery, for instance, lets you burn a TU to regain an expended maneuver, which is nice. Armored Stealth is cute, but let's face it, you won't be heavily armored. Divine Fury is pretty nice, since that's a +4 to hit and +1d10 damage on a martial strike. But the big whopper of the RKV is Divine Impetus, which lets you burn a TU to take a swift action, right then and there, boom.

Now, for those using a Paladin entry, that, combined with Battle Blessing, means instant buffs. But you don't want a Paladin entry, because Codes of Conduct are for people who don't make their money killing folks. You can use that swift action for a hundred and one things, many of them maneuver-related. Some, however, are not maneuvers. For example, Travel Devotion - also a fantastic feat - activates as a swift action, and lets you travel your speed for one minute, once per day (or more if you burn TUs).

Now you have the completed picture before you:

Your prey knows you're coming. He flees down the alleys of the darkened city. Suddenly, from out of the shadows (Shadow Blink) you emerge. He turns to run the other way, but in a blur (Travel Devotion) you're already there. Your cloak billows as you draw your weapon. "Your death has been ordered," you announce flatly. He turns to flee, suddenly the shadows seem to catch around his neck, choking him (Shadow Garrote). Your hand snakes out, striking him in the ribcage - his blood freezes and his legs go numb (Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervating Strike). The last thing he sees is your ruby mask as you raise your weapon over his head...

[Maginomicon]

As much as people here generally rag on it, the True Thief variant Lurk (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) is essentially the assassin but as a base class. Personally, I house-rule that it has search and disable device as class skills as part of the ACF (because duh).

[GreenETC]

I think you could probably get away with the stereotypical Factotum Assassin Tippy always talks about. Get a Wand of Sniper's Shot, put all your feats into Font of Inspiration, pick a bow and get a way to see your enemy and BAM you get 1d6 Sneak Attack per Inspiration Point and can attack from any range while hidden, and you can just disengage and come back to get more Inspiration Points later.

[Tysis]

You can save a feat slot or get rid of a flaw by taking Handcrossboww focus and use a hand cross bow. It counts as weapon focus for the handcrossbow and rapid reload as well. It is found in the Drow of The Underdark (or Underdark) AFB right now but I know it's in one of those.

So should we get rid of a flaw or use the now available feat slot for twf and get a spare hand from the mic and dual wield hand crossbows?

[Forrestfire]

I think you could probably get away with the stereotypical Factotum Assassin Tippy always talks about. Get a Wand of Sniper's Shot, put all your feats into Font of Inspiration, pick a bow and get a way to see your enemy and BAM you get 1d6 Sneak Attack per Inspiration Point and can attack from any range while hidden, and you can just disengage and come back to get more Inspiration Points later.

I literally came into this thread to suggest that :smallamused:

A straight-class Factotum with a bunch of Fonts of Inspiration will have enough IP to brutally murder anything vulnerable to sneak attack damage. If you want to be melee, Iaijutsu focus also adds to the damage here.

[Demonikus Aber]

Have you thought about using a bigger character with a big weapon such as a Goliath from the races of stone? That way you could melee them for massive damage, and it does't matter whether they are undead or not.

[Pluto!]

I put an Assassin handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8273.0) on MMB last year. I might be biased, but I think it's pertinent. I discourage focusing on Death Attack since it's an ability takes a lot of investment to be even kind of decent, but there's a post near the end that highlights most of the ways to get it and to use it efficiently.

What you're going to find with any sneak attack build is that volley-based attacks with lots of doses of sneak attack damage will usually be where damage comes from, not the "single swing" you describe. Similarly, most kinds of attacks that knock an enemy from full health to dead also usually suck (the infamous save-or-die spells included, with their typically single target and the layers of saves, immunities and resistances that need to be punched through).

Actually, weird as it sounds, Lurk (specifically without the Death Attack variant) might be a reasonable pick here. It's a stealthy class and at level 10 can spew 7 points of mental ability damage in an attack on top of any poison or outside abilities you might have... should drop a lot of low-intelligence monsters in one attack and most humanoids in 2 (or less if you can dig up another (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8910) source (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2714.0) of mental ability damage or two)

[mangosta71]

A bigger creature wouldn't be inconspicuous.

Spells tend to be flashy, but what about psionic powers? A level 10 psion has access to things like Psychic Crush (one-shot) and Death Urge (the target kills itself). If you go telepath, you can pick up Crisis of Breath (target requires a standard action to breathe). If you increase him to level 11, you can also grab Mass Cloud Mind for ultimate anonymity.

[Red Fel]

Have you thought about using a bigger character with a big weapon such as a Goliath from the races of stone? That way you could melee them for massive damage, and it does't matter whether they are undead or not.

Well, now that we're talking races, let's talk races.

What about Changeling? No LA, and you get the Shapechanger subtype, but more importantly, you can basically Disguise Self at-will as a full-round action. Perfect for blending in and sneaking around.

Or, here's a stealth idea - what about Tibbit? Again, no LA, and comes with a murder-friendly Dex bonus. And the big plus is the ability to turn into a perfectly mundane kitty. (Bonus points if you figure out how to weaponize the kitty (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314320).) Great for sneaking in or out undetected. After all, the murder was committed with a crossbow - who would suspect the kitty?

Another fine option is to use the Dark or Shadow templates. Dark is LA +1, and gives you +10 speed to all movement modes, Darkvision 60 feet and superior low-light vision, cold resist 10, and Hide in Plain Sight except in daylight. Shadow is LA +2, and gives you you concealment, plus other features. Either is an excellent choice for an assassin. (Note that the Dark template can also be acquired from a Collar of Umbral Transformation.)

[Grayson01]

So should we get rid of a flaw or use the now available feat slot for twf and get a spare hand from the mic and dual wield hand crossbows?

That is up to you. And what else you have slash wanna do. But Darkstalker is kinda a must so use it to get that as soon as you can. Also to hide spells concealing spell skill trick or the RC has a rule for slight of hand to conceal it.

[lytokk]

It may not be a good idea to suggest it, but anyone consider using poisons? Level 10 gives you 13+int modifier in crafting poisons, and I think those are created in GP/day. This is in addition to any masterwork alchemy sets you have to give you more bonuses. There's some pretty decent poisons in BoVD, high saves and good con damage. Or is this a dead avenue?

[Red Fel]

It may not be a good idea to suggest it, but anyone consider using poisons? Level 10 gives you 13+int modifier in crafting poisons, and I think those are created in GP/day. This is in addition to any masterwork alchemy sets you have to give you more bonuses. There's some pretty decent poisons in BoVD, high saves and good con damage. Or is this a dead avenue?

I'm trying to remember, in BoVD I think, was a drug (not a poison) that acted as a powerful stimulant, but if you took it twice it caused instant death, no save, from the OD. Name escapes me, though.

Weaponize that sucker.

[darklink_shadow]

Looks like I have no option but to make a hand crossbow shooting assassin who pincushions, a reaper who pops in for a quick gib, and even look into a windicator and a psion.

Thanks all.

[Demonikus Aber]

Lords of madness, the feat is called Dark stalker. When you hide, creatures with blind sense, blind sight, scent, or tremor sense must make a Listen check or a Spot check (whichever DC is higher) to notice you, just as sighted creatures would make Spot checks to detect you. You cannot hide in plain sight unless you have that ability as a class feature. In addition, you can flank creatures that have the all-around vision special quality.

This makes it very hard for those pesky dragons or anything else the Assassin might run into chasing his quarry.

[Demonikus Aber]

It may not be a good idea to suggest it, but anyone consider using poisons? Level 10 gives you 13+int modifier in crafting poisons, and I think those are created in GP/day. This is in addition to any masterwork alchemy sets you have to give you more bonuses. There's some pretty decent poisons in BoVD, high saves and good con damage. Or is this a dead avenue?

There is the Colossal Spider Venom if that is what you are talking about. Save DC 35 initial 2D8 Str secondary 2D8 strength. This could end a fight very quickly.

[HaikenEdge]

Probably not what you're looking for, but this is what I'd go for, since I'm partial to Warblades: maybe dip Rogue or Factotum at the start, grab Able Learner to continue having those skills as class skills, then sneak behind an opponent and Elder Mountain Hammer them to death, maybe with Assassin's Stance thrown in via a feat.

[Lightlawbliss]

If you only want to kill the sleeping, you can make a coup-de-grace abuser.

pick/scythe, massive sneak_attack+IF+power_attack. darkstalker of course. By lvl 10 you would have a chance (granted, only a chance) at killing a great wyrm force dragon.

[Demonikus Aber]

A bigger creature wouldn't be inconspicuous.

The goliath only counts as large when beneficial, this doesn't give him a penalty to hide. Also he gets accerlerated climb and can take ten to climb even when rushed. Not to mention the fact that they get +4 str +2 con and only a -2 dex. by 8th level, the -2 is gone.

[Emperor Tippy]

Race: Necropolitan Gray Elf.
Classes: Factotum 8/ Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Martial Monk 2

Ability Scores (before Inherent or items, including racial abilities in parentheses): Str 14 (12), Dex 14 (16), Con - (6 before Necro), Int 18 (20), Wis 8, Cha 8

Feats (12 total, 14 with flaws): Darkstalker, Craven, Kung Fu Genius, Lifesense, Martial Study: Any Shadowhand Maneuver*, Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance, Shadow Blade, Font of Inspiration taken as many times as you can.

*Use Psychic Reformation, retraining, or Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos to remove once Martial Stance is taken as it self qualifies.

Items: Craft Contingent Surge of Fortune and a Thinaun weapon are recommended purchases for every assassination contract. The first guarantees you a single natural 20 (which should mean a critical hit) while the second allows you to deliver the targets soul to the client as proof of success and stops those pesky resurrections. Bracers of Murder give you a bit of extra damage and also allow you to re-roll all 1's on sneak attacks. Glove of the Master Strategist is a glove of storage + 1/day True Strike for 3.5K GP, buy one.

This is slightly weaker in ranged attacks but still can bring the hurt. For a ranged attack you do the following. Purchase Craft Contingent Guided Shot (ignore penalties to hit for ranged attack, means that you can attack with a bow from 10 full range increments without the -20 to hit penalty), Craft Contingent Hawkeye (add's 50% to your range increments), Craft Contingent Sniper's Shot (remove's the range restriction on ranged sneak attacks for one attack), and if not using Surge of Fortune then Craft Contingent Hunter's Mercy (a successful hit is automatically a critical hit). When you are ready to take the shot (if not using Surge of Fortune) you trigger True Strike from your Glove of the Master Strategist, trigger all of the Craft Contingent spells so that you can deliver a sneak attack as easily from 1,500 feet away as from 15 feet away, spend two IP to on Cunning Insight to get Int to AB and damage for the attack, and then spend every remaining IP that you have on Cunning Strike. You are making a +50d6 or so sneak attack (re-roll 1's) that also does +2(Int+HD+Bow Enhancement+4) damage. Unless you spectacularly flub the damage roll this will kill pretty much any ECL/CR 12 creature that isn't immune to sneak attacks and it will always force a Massive Damage save or die.

In melee range you use Cunning Surge to pick up a standard action (or multiplies if necessary), use Invisible Fist to go invisible as a swift action, move to within full attack range of the mark (might take multiple uses of Cunning Surge if you are quite far away), make a Decisive Strike using your full attack action, and then use Cunning Surge to pick up extra standard action attacks that each do double damage against the target. Upon the marks death you spend the rest of your IP on Cunning Surge to run the hell away. For damage you should always be doing +2(Int+Dex+Str+HD+2) damage on a sneak attack (before weapons or dice rolls). Two or three Cunning Surge attacks should see your enemy dead.

For advancement you want to pick up 3 levels of Swasbuckler to improve melee (additional +Int to damage that then gets doubled for x4 Int to damage total) and one level of Targetteer Fighter for Dex added to ranged damage. After that, 6 levels of Psion (Telepath) would let you (via Spell to Power Erudite and Psychic Chiguery) add all of those nice ranger and assassin spells of 3rd level or lower to your character as powers known (and you can even Persist them natively if you really want) and give you Telepathy for Mindsight.

For reference, a Young Adult Red Dragon (CR 13) has 218 HP. That's about the highest that you would ever really face. That means 228 points of damage in one round to "assassinate" it. The ranged attack will do that if your sneak attack averages at least 3.52 (which it should as every dice is 2-6 and the average of 1d6 is 3.5). The melee attack can either do the same massive sneak attack via Cunning Strike or do a total of five attacks (the initial Decisive Strike and 4 Cunning Surge attacks) to put out that damage.

---
Now other things you want.

The Ritual of Shadow Walking from FR: Lords of Darkness p. 125 gives you 100 ft. at will teleport with no cost if you are undead. It also fits an assassin thematically. You want this.

If LA Buy Off is allowed then you want the Dark Template from Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave (ideally) or Tome of Magic (if the previous version isn't an allowed source).

---
So there you go, an assassin of doom who can do both melee and ranged and will kill even highly optimized characters before they realize that he is even there.

You can also do some real fun stuff with a Ninja/Factotum combination. That one sneak attacks you for massive damage from the Ethereal Plane but it is a lot more specialized and overall weaker.

[Svata]

*awesomeness*

Sweet mother of holy crap that's a powerful single shot. Unfortunately, it will cost a bit every time you want to do it (crafted contingent spells aren't free). Unless you have a wish trap or something, but that's just ridiculous to assume.

[Emperor Tippy]

Sweet mother of holy crap that's a powerful single shot. Unfortunately, it will cost a bit every time you want to do it (crafted contingent spells aren't free). Unless you have a wish trap or something, but that's just ridiculous to assume.

Assassin. Contract killer. The Craft Contingent spells go on the expense report and the client is the one picking up the tab. And since they are all first level spells the Craft Contingent's are actually pretty cheap (well except for the Surge of Fortune). Granted, you should be charging ten to twenty thousand GP per hit (CRx2,000 for CR 5 to CR 13 contracts is generally a good rule of thumb).

[Svata]

Assassin. Contract killer. The Craft Contingent spells go on the expense report and the client is the one picking up the tab. And since they are all first level spells the Craft Contingent's are actually pretty cheap (well except for the Surge of Fortune). Granted, you should be charging ten to twenty thousand GP per hit (CRx2,000 for CR 5 to CR 13 contracts is generally a good rule of thumb).

Fair enough.

[Emperor Tippy]

Fair enough.

Even without it your can Wand chamber a Wand of Sniper's Shot, use the Glove to effectively negate the -20 AB range penalty, and still deliver the shot. You loose out on the practically guaranteed hit (when you get to add +35 or so over and above BAB you really should only miss on a natural 1) and the double damage from the critical but you still get to whack home the massive sneak attack from twelve hundred feet away.

[Venger]

Thanks to assassin's stance, pretty much every class with hide and move silently as class skills can get into assassin. Swordsage is good. Frankly I'd rather just get a wand of sniper's eye than detract from the focus of the character with levels in warblade and bloodstorm blade.

BTW, I could only find three classes that have a death attack that stacks with assassin's.

1) Black Dog; from dragonmarked.
2) Imaskari Vengeance Taker; from underdark
3) Telflammar Shadowlord; from unapproachable east.

Edit: don't know why I thought assassin required sneak attack.

there are a few more classes that offer stacking death attack with assassin. here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8273.0;msg=131157) is a handbook that offers tips/tricks to beef up your death attack DC and situations where you can actually use the darn thing.

since tippy's mentioned his bird of prey already, I can mention another (albeit less powerful) popular ranged build:

totemist.

by this level, he's flying, bombing the crap out of enemies with the manticore belt, and doing it all while ethereal with the phase cloak. he can assassinate people perfectly well without taking a single level in another class thanks to the kruthik claws or warg pelt.

[darklink_shadow]

That's pretty impressive, Tippy. Pretty damn impressive. The client is actually an artificer and the treasurer of an upstart kingdom hoping to make a name for itself, so tons of contingent spells make fluff sense.

Thanks a bundle. I'll see about redoing my assassin with that in mind.

[alex90lilb]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16507333#post16507333

Maybe this homebrew can help you out. For a 3.5 redux, change combat maneuvers to grapple, disarm, trip, and bull rush attempts.

I've used, and had players use, the class on several occasions and it's always proven fun and fair.