Help with Undead Encounter build

[20yrslater]

I haven't tossed any undead at my players ever. Wowzers!?! Its been a year now!! lol.

Anyways, The cleric wants to use her rebuking abilities and the dread Necromancer wants to control them.

The party are all lvl 10. There is also a Warlock, a Melee Ranger and a Ranged Fighter... Interesting group at the least but they make it work!

What type of undead could I throw at them that have good will saves to resist some of the command undead checks?

I'm trying to avoid a scene where they enter combat then the next thing I know is the party and the undead are walking to the next checkpoint together! I've seen another DN do the same thing in another campaign which is why I have not put them against any undead yet. '

any ideas? thanks in advance.

20

[OldTrees1]

A small number of Undead Clerics:
The small number means each individual undead is higher level
Clerics have one of the best Will saves (good progression + primary stat)
Clerics can use Rebuke Undead to bolster undead or contest control

Is this pathfinder (Will saves to resist Rebuke Undead) or 3.5 (Effective HD to resist Rebuke Undead)?

[20yrslater]

This is a 3.5 game. Im not so worried about the rebuking (or should i be) rather then the command undead spell. I think the DNs dc on that is in the low 20s iirc.

In another game with another DM i saw a DN walk in and each round cast control undead and had an army of undead march.

They've been asking to fight undead but I'm not sure what i can toss at them that they can actually fight rather then control.

What would be a good undead cleric build!? A lich cleric? Maybe have them face undead and another DN? Hmmm...

[OldTrees1]

If it is 3.5 then you do not need to worry about rebuke(command) unless you send swarms at them. Rebuke(awe) is still a concern but that is a reasonable weakness for the player's to exploit.

Command Undead (2nd level spell)[single target, days/cl] requires a Will save and then a Cha check for each order.
Control Undead (7th level spell)[2HD/cl, minutes/cl] requires a Will save

Since the party is level 10 they only have access to the 2nd level spell. This means that undead with a good Wis or a good Cha would be suitable protected. A good Cha being the better defense strangely.

So a Lich Dread Necromancer with Necropolitian Cleric/Master of Shrouds lieutenants would make a good start for an organization.

[Irk]

drowned with two levels of warblade makes it a 12th level initiator. Give it the typical AoO loadout + stand still so it keeps people in its drowning aura.

or, you could do a CR 13 encounter, take a necrocarnum zombie w/ 38 HD, give it a level of warblade, boom, 20th level initiator at CR 13

[OldTrees1]

Drowned Warblade 2 = Will save +12 vs DC 20 or lose. As a CR 11, you could throw a few at the ECL 10 party and they will hold their own. But at least one will join the party (Cha of only 12)

34HD Necrocarnum Zombie Warblade 1 = Will save +19 vs DC 20 or lose. For a CR 13 this is reasonable. They will not walk away with this monster unless they are persistent.

[Irk]

34HD Necrocarnum Zombie Warblade 1 = Will save +19 vs DC 20 or lose. For a CR 13 this is reasonable. They will not walk away with this monster unless they are persistent.

The necrocarnum zombies don't have the drowning aura. The idea is that it's a 38 HD zombie w/ 1 level of warblade, making it a 20th level initiator, which grants it 9th level maneuvers and stances.

EDIT: Sorry, I misunderstood your post. Yeah, I guess you could give them otyugh hole iron will, if you were really nasty.

Also, as twelfth level initiators, drowned get aura of perfect order, allowing them to treat any dice roll as an 11, meaning they all pass, so they're essentially immune.

Also, the necrocarnum zombie gets things like feral death blow, time stands still, and other maneuvers, potentially killing one guy/round

[OldTrees1]

There is always the option of Otyugh Hole for Iron Will & the two +1 Will traits for a total of -1 Fort, -1 Ref, +5 Will. However I usually avoid using Otyugh Hole except when it makes sense for that extremely high security prison to be used.

[20yrslater]

Thanks for the input. I actually looked up drowned last night and thought that it might be a good go for them and it's not to powerful for them to abuse.

How would the contested control option go? If my undead are controlled already, can the party assume control, then I cast to regain control? would that be a back and forth battle.

Also, if a player assumes control of an undead creature, any orders give are taken on the creatures turn, correct? If the creature is controlled a second time by another character within the same round before its turn, he will only take the actions of the last person who succeeded in their control spell.

[OldTrees1]

How would the contested control option go? If my undead are controlled already, can the party assume control, then I cast to regain control? would that be a back and forth battle.

Also, if a player assumes control of an undead creature, any orders give are taken on the creatures turn, correct? If the creature is controlled a second time by another character within the same round before its turn, he will only take the actions of the last person who succeeded in their control spell.

Contested control requires 2 masters each attempting to control the target. I forget if it is resolved by an opposed Cha check or if the last effect is dominant. Personally I favor the opposed Cha check.

Yes a controlled being will act on its turn based on its current state of control.