[PF] Mythic Heroes: All like this?

[Than]

Okay, I'll open with my question before I explain how I ended up with it. Are all builds with Mythic Paths and Tiers this level of crazy powerful?

I just discovered Mythic Adventures and I've just begun playing with it. I started with a base fighter, added the Two-Handed Fighter archetype. Made it level 20 with all the Vital Strike feats (I know they are a trap, shush), Power Attacks, the Cleaves, and Weapon Specialization cause I ran out of ideas. Assume the only magic gear on him is his sword.

Then I added Mythic tiers and picked Legendary Item three times to get myself a custom major artifact. I've been running off an image of Cloud Strife for inspiration so my artifact took the form of the Buster Sword. It's got the ability to let me Greater Magic Weapon 1/day CL20 so I left it as a +1 Impact Greatsword so it ends up with damage of 3d6. Fighter 20 gives it auto crit confirmation and x3 multiplier.

Ended up with 28 Str, double Str mod damage on standard action attacks, +4 weapon training, greater power attack (+36), weapon spec gives +2 more, and greater magic weapon 5 more damage.
Now we're at 3d6+65. Except when I crit. Then that 36 becomes a 72 thanks to Mythic Power Attack. 3d6+101 x3 or 9d6+303. And the numbers are still going up.

Greater Vital Strike. 3d6 becomes 12d6. Get the Mythic feat and it says to multiply the above bonuses by 9. 12d6+585. Except I can still roll to crit. This brings the multiplier to 12, right? And the power attack damage gets muddled.
15d6+(29x9) damage without power attack. +36 power attack, x9 for vital strike, and 72x3 (M.PA and crit).

15d6+(29x9)+(36x9)+(72x3)
15d6+261+324+216
15d6+801

Oh yeah, I took Foe-biting. 30d6+1602. Keen that sword and this happens 20% of the time. Add in Fleet Charge and this happens 20% of the time as a swift action.

Have I done something bad? The Terrasque can't even stand against that hit without the Foe-biting artifact ability. What terrors await a full caster? Fort save DC 300 or become an Alikan Oyster? Roll twice and take lowest?

[Alleran]

From my experimentation, melee classes get more damage output from Mythic than casters do (and they can both get Divine Source, which is probably one of the most powerful mythic abilities just on versatility alone). However, casters can still do some crazy things.

A couple of examples I've noticed:

- Augmented Mythic Meteor Swarm does a line of approximately 900 damage (if maximised) that ignores fire resistance or immunity.
- Augmented Mythic Deep Slumber can put targets to sleep for as much as a hundred and twenty years at a time.
- Mythic Time Stop can stop time for 24 hours or more (I think CL 32 is the cap in PF).

There are almost certainly others, but those are just off the top of my head.

[Waddacku]

It's obviously arguable, but the number of weapon damage dice referred to by Mythic Vital Strike most likely refers to how many times you added the base damage, not individually for each single die. That'd be a factor 3 instead of a factor 9.

Regardless, though, considering casters gets stuff like "Spontaneously cast any spell on your list", fighty dudes need something.

Although for the most part they're likely better off ignoring most of the combat related mythic stuff and grabbing things like being a demigod. Mythic Vital Strike is actually a fairly rare case of adding enough numbers to be worthwhile. Or rather, it makes it so your four feat investment (one mythic) standard action is about equivalent to your full attack.

[Giarc]

Vital Strike and Mythic Vital Strike become really significant at tier 2 and on due to what every path gets.

Amazing Initiative (Ex)

At 2nd tier, you gain a bonus on initiative checks equal to your mythic tier. In addition, as a free action on your turn, you can expend one use of mythic power to take an additional standard action during that turn. This additional standard action can't be used to cast a spell. You can't gain an extra action in this way more than once per round.

[137beth]

You do realize you're talking about ECL 25, right?
Consider that many demi-god heroes from classical mythology would be under level 10 in D&D terms, and almost all of them would be under level 20. If an ECL 25 character doesn't have god-like or near-god-like power, something is horribly wrong.

[Hunter Noventa]

Pretty much. I made a level 10/tier 10 ninja who can be completely and totally undetectable to anything thanks to her legendary item, does not need to eat, drink or sleep more than an hour, can fly naturally at 65 ft and can make full attacks before or after making said move, without even spending mythic power on amazing initiative.

Mythic abilities are pretty much as awesome as they should be for the most part, though some are a bit underwhelming.

[Vanitas]

Okay, I'll open with my question before I explain how I ended up with it. Are all builds with Mythic Paths and Tiers this level of crazy powerful?


That's the whole point, isn't it?

[Keneth]

The math is incorrect. Mythic Vital Strike does not multiply the damage by the arbitrarily large number of damage dice you may be rolling, it multiplies it by the number of "weapon damage dice" that you roll as part of Vital Strike. Or in other words, it doesn't matter how many damage dice your weapon has, the number of weapon's damage dice you roll as part of Greater Vital Strike is four.

So assuming you crit, you are rolling 3d6+101 six times. Four times from Greater Vital Strike, and another 2 times from the x3 crit multiplier (x4 and x3 equals x6).

[The Random NPC]

I keep re-reading Mythic Vital Strike, and I keep thinking that you multiply the bonuses by the number of weapon damage dice you roll. So if you had a weapon that did 400d2 damage after Greater Vital Strike, you would multiply your strength damage by 400.

[Mojo_Rat]

For the most part, Mythic feats modify the existing feats and it is best to assume that all rules established by the origonal feat still apply unless the mythic feat explicityly over-rides them.

So if you are doing 2d6+10 without vital strike and have normal vital strike it is 4d6 +10. if you have mythic vital strike it is 4d6+20. If you crit it is 6d6+40.

So greater vital strike with this char is 8d6+40 and 10d6+80 on a crit.

Because Vital strike defines that it is using the weapon damage dice and mythic vital strike does not change this definition.

[Than]

Good point. Let's see what happens to those numbers when we RAI it.

15d6+(29x3)+(36x3)+(72x2)
15d6+87+108+144
15d6+339

Yep, I was cheating. It's still enough for Foe-biting to take down a tarrasque. With precision and adding speed on the sword you even get a full attack of 20/20/20/15/10.

[Keneth]

Tarrasque is not a good benchmark anyway. It's just an oversized bruiser.

The real test are opponents of appropriate challenge, such as great wyrm dragons or mythic vampire sorcerers. All that damage is pointless if you can't hit, and the damage drops considerably if the creature negates your criticals. And you better hope you don't get disarmed. :smallbiggrin:

[The Random NPC]

For the most part, Mythic feats modify the existing feats and it is best to assume that all rules established by the origonal feat still apply unless the mythic feat explicityly over-rides them.

So if you are doing 2d6+10 without vital strike and have normal vital strike it is 4d6 +10. if you have mythic vital strike it is 4d6+20. If you crit it is 6d6+40.

So greater vital strike with this char is 8d6+40 and 10d6+80 on a crit.

Because Vital strike defines that it is using the weapon damage dice and mythic vital strike does not change this definition.

The mythic feat kind of does override it. It says that you multiply the Strength damage by the number of dice, not by the same number you would multiply the dice by.

[Keneth]

The mythic feat kind of does override it. It says that you multiply the Strength damage by the number of dice, not by the same number you would multiply the dice by.

It says "weapon damage dice". While that is ambiguous, it's clear that "weapon damage dice" is synonymous to "3d6" not "3", and you roll those dice a number of times dictated by the Vital Strike feats. That is the number referred to in the mythic version.

[Than]

Tarrasque is not a good benchmark anyway. It's just an oversized bruiser.

The real test are opponents of appropriate challenge, such as great wyrm dragons or mythic vampire sorcerers. All that damage is pointless if you can't hit, and the damage drops considerably if the creature negates your criticals. And you better hope you don't get disarmed. :smallbiggrin:

Level 20 Fighters are immune to disarm. So there's that.