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Luna_Mayflower
2013-11-19, 08:38 AM
Will Malack return?

Kish
2013-11-19, 08:41 AM
I'm sure he's drinking Lee's blood off-panel even as the audience is shown far less important events, as a kind of sleight of hand.

KillianHawkeye
2013-11-19, 08:42 AM
No. /tencharacters

Grey Watcher
2013-11-19, 08:51 AM
Will Malack return?

Given that he's been incinerated and his ashes scattered on the wind into a desert, I fail to see how that's possible, except maybe as a ghost or something. Even if you were to somehow, reliably, retrieve some of Malack's ashes, you couldn't revive him as Malack the vampire, he'd come back as not!Malack, the Lizadfolk shaman. Then you'd have to find someone, somewhere to turn him into a vampire. And would Malack's living antecedent consent to that?

Plus I think Burlew said somewhere that Malack's whole reason for existing in the story was to turn Durkon into a vampire. Now that that's been accomplished, there isn't much reason for him to come back.

Diadem
2013-11-19, 09:26 AM
He won't be back.

We're in the final stages of Tarquin's storyline. It will wrap up soon, and then we are of to the final gate and the final confrontation. I'm sure that road won't be entirely smooth, and there might be new side-stories along the way, but this story won't be coming back.

Malack is not coming back
Nale is not coming back
Thog is not coming back
Sabine is not coming back

We might still get a scene with some of them in the afterline, but nothing more.

Kevka Palazzo
2013-11-19, 09:32 AM
He won't be back.

We're in the final stages of Tarquin's storyline. It will wrap up soon, and then we are of to the final gate and the final confrontation. I'm sure that road won't be entirely smooth, and there might be new side-stories along the way, but this story won't be coming back.

Malack is not coming back
Nale is not coming back
Thog is not coming back
Sabine is not coming back

We might still get a scene with some of them in the afterline, but nothing more.

Aww, now we're getting to the lonely end-game.

Sunken Valley
2013-11-19, 09:35 AM
Malack will return...in the Linear Guild Prequel book.

Topus
2013-11-19, 09:55 AM
Will Malack return?

By return you mean intransitive turn undead again? I don't think so, it will be kind of recursive.
Or you mean a transitive turn undead again? In the first place he didn't turn any undead, he commanded them, so it's better to ask "Will Malack recommand?"

ThePhantasm
2013-11-19, 09:59 AM
He won't be back.

We're in the final stages of Tarquin's storyline. It will wrap up soon, and then we are of to the final gate and the final confrontation. I'm sure that road won't be entirely smooth, and there might be new side-stories along the way, but this story won't be coming back.

Malack is not coming back
Nale is not coming back
Thog is not coming back
Sabine is not coming back

We might still get a scene with some of them in the afterline, but nothing more.

Sabine is not coming back? Be prepared to be wrong about that one. She works for the IFCC, and they are still very much a part of this story.

Gift Jeraff
2013-11-19, 10:11 AM
Sabine is not coming back

She's only banished for 24 hours, at least 3 of which have already passed. And as said above, she still works for the IFCC.

HZ514
2013-11-19, 10:20 AM
Malack will return...in the Linear Guild Prequel book.

He will preturn!

Benthesquid
2013-11-19, 10:28 AM
Malack will return in (choose one)

From Tyrinaria, With Love
The Orc With the Golden Sword
You Only Die Twice

rbetieh
2013-11-19, 10:28 AM
Sabine is not coming back? Be prepared to be wrong about that one. She works for the IFCC, and they are still very much a part of this story.

And Thog, I am pretty sure he is still alive.

TriForce
2013-11-19, 11:17 AM
And Thog, I am pretty sure he is still alive.

this is less likely, there is a good chance he is actually dead, and even if he isnt, he has no reason to be involved with the story any more

Living Oxymoron
2013-11-19, 11:28 AM
"Malack's never returning. Neither's his killer" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0914.html)

As for this:


Malack will return in (choose one)

From Tyrinaria, With Love
The Orc With the Golden Sword
You Only Die Twice

L-O-L :smallbiggrin:

Souhiro
2013-11-19, 11:33 AM
As much as I liked Malak, I think he's better dead.

Don't get me wrong: Did you saw Gurren Lagann? Kamina is one of the greatest anime characters ever. Any series with him would be great, but Gurren Lagann has that kickass character, kills him, and don't "Just Bury him": His friends remember him, mourn their friend, and continue their lives.

Malak has been a great character, and I liked every appearance of him. But resurrecting him... it would CHEAPEN him,cheap his death, and his character.

Also, I think that Mechanic-wise, Rules-wise, only a wish, or a miracle directly from Nergal would bring back Malak the Vampire: Even if you resurrect Not!Malak the Lizardfolk, then vampirize him, it would create a new vampire. Similar to Not!Malak and Older!Malak, as Durkula is to Durkon; but not exactly him.


But I would like to kill and resurrect Redcloak so many times, until that hateful gobbo is so cheapened that the dirt in the floor is worth more than that green hated minion.


souhiro.zobyhost.com/light_703.jpg (http://souhiro.zobyhost.com/matar.php?idVictima=703)

And I have a little friend that hates Redcloak, too!!

Synesthesy
2013-11-19, 11:35 AM
Remember: only people we have seen the "X" on their eyes, or their body vanishing into the wind, are really gone. This is a rule that always work in fictional world.

Nale? Is gone.
Malack? Is gone.
Thog? Will return.
Sabine? Will return.

Hayley herself told this, when Roy died... Sure, in D&D world people can be resurrect, other people can make "plane shift", ect; but when you see the "X" is when they are gone.

Procyonpi
2013-11-19, 11:38 AM
Sabine is not coming back


Not so sure about that one.

Souhiro
2013-11-19, 11:38 AM
(...)when you see the "X" is when they are gone.
Gasp!!!

Then, Everytime someone says xD they....

OhMyGawdh!

Gift Jeraff
2013-11-19, 11:48 AM
Malack will return in (choose one)

From Tyrinaria, With Love
The Orc With the Golden Sword
You Only Die Twice

The Campaign World Is Not Enough

Mike Havran
2013-11-19, 11:54 AM
Malack will return...in the Linear Guild Prequel book.I certainly hope so.

Roland Itiative
2013-11-19, 11:54 AM
Hayley herself told this, when Roy died... Sure, in D&D world people can be resurrect, other people can make "plane shift", ect; but when you see the "X" is when they are gone.
No. The X in the eyes just means they're dead rather than just unconscious. One can die without ever appearing on-panel with X on their eyes (say, by being burried under rubble, for instance), just like people that did appear with X-eyes can be brought back (Roy being the prime example).

factotum
2013-11-19, 11:55 AM
No, he won't be back. Even if the Giant hadn't already said that True Resurrection will never happen in the Stickverse (hence Laurin disintegrating Nale to make sure he would never come back), resurrecting him would bring back an entirely different character who happened to have the same name--and there's certainly no way to bring him back as the vampire he was at the time of his destruction.

Synesthesy
2013-11-19, 12:25 PM
No. The X in the eyes just means they're dead rather than just unconscious. One can die without ever appearing on-panel with X on their eyes (say, by being burried under rubble, for instance), just like people that did appear with X-eyes can be brought back (Roy being the prime example).

In my opinion, if the death of someone (who is important for the story) is not shown, then he is not death.

This applies for Thog, becouse being buried alive is not enough to be death.

Sylian
2013-11-19, 12:43 PM
Malack is not coming back
Nale is not coming back
Thog is not coming back
Sabine is not coming back

We might still get a scene with some of them in the afterline, but nothing more.Thog and/or Sabine might come back, though. I think Sabine will, at some point. She is working for the IFCC, after all.

navpirx
2013-11-19, 02:20 PM
Of course he will, and here's how:

After Julio falls off his flying carpet and breaks his neck, the Order will be forced to retreat all the way back to the Rift and enter the world within to avoid a Total Party Kill. There, they will discover a long forgotten underwater city and wake Malack up from his not-quite-eternal slumber. They will feel morally obligated to stop Malack before he sacrifices the entire population of the intra-Rift world to... well, to himself.

In the meantime, Durkon will abandon the Order at the last second, steal the Mechane and go for the dwarven lands, bringing them the promised death and destruction, with Tarquin in hot pursuit. The remainder of the story will alternate between the Order trying to destroy Malack, and Tarquin, Durkon, Xykon and Redcloak trying to murder each other and control the last gate.

Hague
2013-11-19, 03:00 PM
There's no way Julio would flub an acrobatics check to avoid fall damage. He can probably take a ten on them even under stress so yeah. Julio's not just gonna fall off his carpet and break his neck.

Vinsfeld
2013-11-19, 03:16 PM
Nope! Just Chuck Testa.

Malkyrie
2013-11-19, 03:30 PM
Malack will return in (choose one)

From Tyrinaria, With Love
The Orc With the Golden Sword
You Only Die Twice

The Unliving Daylights

Grey Watcher
2013-11-19, 04:36 PM
The Unliving Daylights

Vampires Are Forever
Goldenfangs
Arena Royale

AstralFire
2013-11-19, 05:13 PM
Vampires Are Forever
Goldenfangs
Arena Royale

Duskfall
A Quantum of Blood
Elan Never Dies

HZ514
2013-11-19, 05:38 PM
Duskfall
A Quantum of Blood
Elan Never Dies

A quantum of blood would be a huge bummer to any vampire.

KillianHawkeye
2013-11-19, 08:53 PM
No, he won't be back. Even if the Giant hadn't already said that True Resurrection will never happen in the Stickverse (hence Laurin disintegrating Nale to make sure he would never come back), resurrecting him would bring back an entirely different character who happened to have the same name--and there's certainly no way to bring him back as the vampire he was at the time of his destruction.

FYI, Malack had a different name when he was alive. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)

AstralFire
2013-11-19, 10:29 PM
A quantum of blood would be a huge bummer to any vampire.

I believe a quantum of solace is also supposed to be more bitter than sweet (in both the original short story and the movie which shares its title but not remotely its plot).

dancrilis
2013-11-19, 11:07 PM
Even if the Giant hadn't already said that True Resurrection will never happen in the Stickverse
Where did he say that?
I have seen it thrown around that he said something alone the lines of 'I dislike True Resurrection as a general rule' - and people assuming this means that it doesn't exist.

However True Resurrection is a known thing in the Stickverse.
Haley Panel 7 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html) mentioned specifically.
The same place that the return of Zz'dtri and Hilgya were mentioned (one down one to go).

Haley Panel 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0579.html) there is a clear indication of it's existence.

I am half expecting Nale to return via it as predicted by Haley.

AstralFire
2013-11-19, 11:16 PM
Where did he say that?
I have seen it thrown around that he said something alone the lines of 'I dislike True Resurrection as a general rule' - and people assuming this means that it doesn't exist.

However True Resurrection is a known thing in the Stickverse.
Haley Panel 7 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html) mentioned specifically.
The same place that the return of Zz'dtri and Hilgya were mentioned (one down one to go).

Haley Panel 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0579.html) there is a clear indication of it's existence.

I am half expecting Nale to return via it as predicted by Haley.


From a storytelling point of view, the "Why didn't this person do X?" questions are sort of a waste of time. They didn't do that because something stopped them, obviously. Does it matter what that something was, really? Dragons don't have access to 17th level clerics because they just don't. That's not the way the world works. Assume, if you want, that she asked the Oracle, and the Oracle said there isn't anyone who would be willing to cast it for a black dragon.

And more to the point, True Resurrection is a terrible, narrative-wrecking spell that should not exist, as it has no real purpose for players who die in battle (as they can almost always be returned via simple Resurrection) and only ever comes in to play to undo plot points. I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to everyone, and I don't want to waste any panel time explaining why.

(Also, with regards to the Gating a Solar thing: The "fair trade" price a Solar would ask for resurrecting an evil dragon would simply be the mother dragon's own life—because that would be a Good act of self-sacrifice, and the Solar would approve of that. There's no reason to think the mother dragon would be willing to pay that price...and even if she was, she would insist on punishing V first, since her son was relatively weak.)

IOW, True Resurrection is a known quantity in the Stickverse, but it is a near-certainty that no one with the power to cast it will appear within the present day storyline.

dancrilis
2013-11-19, 11:36 PM
Thanks I had taken a bit of a look for it (a brief one) and not seen it.

The item that I would not would be this:
I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to everyone, and I don't want to waste any panel time explaining why.

This is by no means the same as: "not available" to anyone.

Redcloak has access to 9th level spells - he should* be able to cast it, however there are very few reasons that spring to mind for why he would ever use it.
He could use it to resurrect his family - but I don't see him ever doing that (not before he has achieved all his goals at any rate, and probably not than).

*for a specific definition of should.

Now could other sources exist: sure, could they not: sure.
But I don't see anywhere in the Giants quote that would cause me to accuse him if misleading anyone if it does appear in one form or another.

AstralFire
2013-11-19, 11:47 PM
The point is that if Mr. Burlew's objection to the spell is how it wrecks narrative and "undoes plot points", going to the extra effort to write in someone:

Capable of casting true resurrection.
Willing to cast it on Nale.
Only willing to cast it a very limited number of times (once or so).


as opposed to:
simply not writing a story where Nale gets disintegrated post-mortem

Seems unlikely.

colanderman
2013-11-20, 12:00 AM
Duskfall
A Quantum of Blood
Elan Never Dies

Unlive and Let Undie
Dr. No Shadow
The Psion who Loved Me

Bulldog Psion
2013-11-20, 12:02 AM
For those who would seek Malack's return ...


"In which star of the unclimbed sky wilt thou begin our search? Or in which of the secret streams of ocean where the last green rays are quenched in oozy darkness?"

Mostly, I just wanted to quote that. :smallwink:

thereaper
2013-11-20, 01:56 AM
We should also not forget that resurrection can only work if the target consents to being resurrected. In most D&D settings, the vast majority of creatures will not want to be raised once killed. This can serve as a potent barrier to True Resurrections.

Furthermore, because the spell requires a material component that is very rare, the power of plot can also serve as a barrier.

"All right, we need to do a True Resurrection. Let's grab a 17th level Cleric."

"Ok, found the Cleric. Now, we need lots of diamonds."

"What do you mean everyone in the campaign setting is suddenly sold out? Fine, get them from the elemental plane of Earth, then."

"What do you mean you got pickpocketed on the way back?! Stupid railroad plot! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0251.html)"

Grey Watcher
2013-11-20, 02:31 AM
We should also not forget that resurrection can only work if the target consents to being resurrected. In most D&D settings, the vast majority of creatures will not want to be raised once killed. This can serve as a potent barrier to True Resurrections.

Heck, some cosmologies make it even more complicated: the gods worshiped by both the caster and the target have to consent to it, and possibly also whatever god holds the Death portfolio. So, that's up to four different entities that have to consent in order for True Resurrection to work.

Jay R
2013-11-20, 12:13 PM
this is less likely, there is a good chance he is actually dead, and even if he isnt, he has no reason to be involved with the story any more

I didn't predict that Julio's reason to be in the story was to pun-duel with Tarquin.

I didn't predict that Malack's reason to be in the story was to turn Durkon into a vampire.

I didn't predict that the Familicide was in the story to kill all the defenses at one of the gates.

I didn't predict that Thog was in the story to be the Champion.

I don't claim to be able to tell in advance if Thog still has a reason to be in the story.

Oryutzen
2013-11-20, 12:18 PM
...well, there's always the chance one of our visits to the IFCC will let us see him again, if that counts. Unless he got one of the nastier afterlives that start with a memory wipe and go from there.

NihhusHuotAliro
2013-11-20, 03:51 PM
I had a theory that Malack might become one of Nergal's archangels/archdemons/whatever when he died, if only for that plan of sacrificing thousands a day for a potentially-eternal unlife to Nergal (and actually getting into place the infrastructure to make it happen). If that doesn't count to a god of death and destruction as going above and beyond the call of duty, I don't know what would.

If Malack does return in this comic, I think it will be because of Nergal rewarding him for his service.

Unless Nergal actually disapproves of such mass slaughter, in which case Malack is in for a real treat right about now...

KillianHawkeye
2013-11-20, 04:07 PM
Unless Nergal actually disapproves of such mass slaughter, in which case Malack is in for a real treat right about now...

I would assume that the High Priest of Nergal probably has SOME idea about the details of his own religion, wouldn't you? :smallconfused::smallsigh:

Gift Jeraff
2013-11-20, 08:23 PM
Part of me hopes that Nergal is extremely Lawful (and extremely Evil) and strict, and since Malack's dying words indicated fear of death and destruction, Malack must now suffer punishment at the hands of his own god.

luchifer
2013-11-20, 08:31 PM
Part of me hopes that Nergal is extremely Lawful (and extremely Evil) and strict, and since Malack's dying words indicated fear of death and destruction, Malack must now suffer punishment at the hands of his own god.

I dont think he was afraid to be killed.. I think he was angry because he was being killed by Nale.

Harbinger
2013-11-20, 09:23 PM
Will Malack return?

Of course Malack will return. He never really died. Do you really think someone as incompetent as Nale could kill a powerful cleric, especially one of a competent LN god like Nergal?

As for the "ashes" he was just assuming gaseous form. I predict that once Team Evil and the Order get to Kraagor's gate, Malack will have already captured it.

factotum
2013-11-21, 02:23 AM
As for the "ashes" he was just assuming gaseous form.

Assuming gaseous form requires a standard action. When under direct sunlight, vampires can only perform *one* move or attack action--therefore, he can't have gone gaseous.

Dante2001
2013-11-21, 10:43 AM
Malack's comedy drama in which he must hide to a pretty lizardfolk that he's a vampire. Eventually she realizes that and loves him (Malack casts shining glow while on the daylight). But then Malack realizes going and pretending to be in highschool for eternity would be lame and destroys and burns the whole town for the glory of Nergal.

Title options are:

I will Nergal let you go

or

PS: I vamp you

Luna_Mayflower
2013-11-21, 11:51 AM
Given that he's been incinerated and his ashes scattered on the wind into a desert, I fail to see how that's possible, except maybe as a ghost or something. Even if you were to somehow, reliably, retrieve some of Malack's ashes, you couldn't revive him as Malack the vampire, he'd come back as not!Malack, the Lizadfolk shaman. Then you'd have to find someone, somewhere to turn him into a vampire. And would Malack's living antecedent consent to that?

Plus I think Burlew said somewhere that Malack's whole reason for existing in the story was to turn Durkon into a vampire. Now that that's been accomplished, there isn't much reason for him to come back.

I guess we'll never be happily married, then...

Oryutzen
2013-11-21, 12:17 PM
I guess we'll never be happily married, then...

Unless you plan to go to him instead of getting him back. That could be a tinge easier, depending on which afterlife's got him.

Zmeoaice
2013-11-21, 04:11 PM
Malack's comedy drama in which he must hide to a pretty lizardfolk that he's a vampire. Eventually she realizes that and loves him (Malack casts shining glow while on the daylight). But then Malack realizes going and pretending to be in highschool for eternity would be lame and destroys and burns the whole town for the glory of Nergal.

Title options are:

I will Nergal let you go

or

PS: I vamp you

Still a better love story than Twilight.

Harbinger
2013-11-21, 04:48 PM
Assuming gaseous form requires a standard action. When under direct sunlight, vampires can only perform *one* move or attack action--therefore, he can't have gone gaseous.

Well, sure most vampires can't, but I'm sure a super-prepared cleric like Malack has all sorts of ways to get around that. In fact, I bet he had divinations up and knew what Nale was planning ahead of time. Getting "killed" was just part of his master plan to capture Kraagor's gate.

137beth
2013-11-21, 11:56 PM
I guess we'll never be happily married, then...

Love or hate? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294773) It can be tricky!


Although, Malack is a woman and Elan's mother (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15699522#post15699522), so your plan gives us a hint as to what state/country you plan to marry her in...
...
...
although Malack represents the White Russians (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294277&page=2), so there's that.

Either way, if you can't get Jake/Malack back, may I suggest Laurin/Spiky? She's actually Elan's grandmother, which was why Durkon was able to call her with Planar Ally.

GreyHound
2013-11-22, 12:30 AM
...

Either way, if you can't get Jake/Malack back, may I suggest Laurin/Spiky? She's actually Elan's grandmother, which was why Durkon was able to call her with Planar Ally.

Is she Elan’s grandmother on his mother’s side or Tarquin’s side…or both?

ShinyRocks
2013-11-22, 09:08 AM
Malack , Zz'dtri and Nale are never coming back. (Possibly a one-panel afterlife joke, at best.)

Sabine is almost certainly going to feature again.

I can't swear it, but I'm sure Thog isn't coming back. Rich plays with storytelling conventions all the time and I see no reason to believe he thinks 'no body/no X eyes = not dead' should be adhered to. I'd personally be really disappointed if Thog came back. He was weakened and then a roof fell on him. He's dead. And even if he isn't, he's spectacularly stupid, and at best does as he's told. The idea that he'd have the mental capacity to track down the Order to seek revenge or what have you is absurd. He has no story purpose left to serve. I think that bringing him back would be pandering. (I mean, Rich is a good enough author to make it work, I'm sure, but I just don't see it.)

Look at how much trouble the Order went through to resurrect Roy. Durkon knew the spell! And it still took a zillion strips and all sorts of complications. I feel like Rich is trying to show in the comic that resurrection shouldn't be easy or straightforward and bringing back anybody at this stage would go against that.

We're in the end game. Bringing back secondary characters at this point would clutter up the plot and be totally counterproductive.