Combat Archer PrC home brew

[Jgosse]

This is just a rough Idea . if you have questions comments or concerns please let me know.
This is my first home brew PrC.


Combat Archer.
Pre reqs
Point Blank Shot.
Rapid Shot
no caster levels-A combat archer may have no ability to cast spells. if at ant point he gains the ability to cast spells he may no longer progress as a Combat archer. A combat archer may still use magic items that mimic spells.
BAB 6
Skills ???? any suggestions?

A combat archer may count his/her BAB + Combat archer level as fighter level for the Weapon Focus feat Tree. Your combat archer level stacks for purposes of skirmish or sneak attack not both and Favored Enemy.

Original

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0| Weapon spec Bow

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0| Expanded Precision double the distance on any Precision based attack. Point blank shot, sneak attack, skirmish.

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1| Greater Weapon Focus Bow

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1| Arrow Power When using any bow, a 4th-level Combat Archer gains a +1 bonus on Crit multiplier. Furthermore, his threat range is doubled

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1| Combat archer, you no longer invoke attacks of opportunity when threatened and treat squares in your natural reach as threatened.

6th|
+6/1|
+5|
+5|
+2| Improved Point blank shot deal an extra +1 on Point blank shot

7th|
+7/2|
+5|
+5|
+2| Greater Weapon Spec Bow

8th|
+8/3|
+6|
+6|
+2| Improved Precise shot

9th|
+9/4|
+6|
+6|
+3| Arrow Power When using any bow, a 4th-level Combat Archer gains a +2 bonus on Crit multiplier. Furthermore, his threat range is tripled.

10th|
+10/5|
+7|
+7|
+3| Shot on the Run
[/table]




{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0| Shot On The Run, Ranged power attack, Fast movement.

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0| Ranged Precision,Improved rapid shot

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1| Wind breaker , Improved Point blank shot
4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1| Combat archer, Improved shot on the run

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1| Arrow Power, Heart Seeker

6th|
+6/1|
+5|
+5|
+2|Greater Point blank shot

7th|
+7/2|
+5|
+5|
+2| Greater Rapid shot Greater shot on the Run
8th|
+8/3|
+6|
+6|
+2|Unyielding Precision
9th|
+9/4|
+6|
+6|
+3| Perfect point blank shot , Greater ranged Precision

10th|
+10/5|
+7|
+7|
+3| Improved Arrow Power, Perfect Shot on the run
[/table]


Shot On The Run -as the feat a 1st level A combat archer gains the feat Shot on the run Even if does not meet the prerequisite.

Ranged power attack - A first level combat archer may apply power attack to his ranged attack if in his point blank shot range.

Fast movement - at 1st level a combat archer gains +5 to his/her movement speed this bonus increases by +5 every level. This Bonus only applies when a Combat Archer is in light Armor or unburdened.

Ranged Precision- At 2nd level A combat archer doubles the distance on any Precision based attack. Point blank shot, sneak attack, skirmish.

Improved rapid shot- At 2nd level A combat archer gains the Improved rapid shot feat even if they do not have the Required Prerequisite.

Wind breaker- At 3rd level A combat archers arrows can overcome any and all wind weather magical or mundane.

Improved Point blank shot- At 3rd level a Combat archer gains an additional +1 on Point blank shot.

Combat archer- at 4th level A combat archer is treated as a Melee combatant. Ranged attacks no longer invoke attacks of opportunity, when threatened and treat squares in your natural reach as threatened, you can preform sunder and disarm attempts, and also preform a charge.

Improved Shot on the run - At 4th level a Combat archer may make a second shot while moving, there must be 10 feet of movement between shots.
Arrow Power - At 5th level When using any bow, a 5th-level Combat Archer gains a +1 bonus on Crit multiplier. Furthermore, his threat range is doubled(19-20 x 4). this bonus stacks with improved crit but not keen.this bonus only applies when firing a single arrow at a time and not when using abilities such as many shot.

Heart Seeker - once per day a combat archer may make a single powerful Attack. This attack is an automatic Critical threat and if successful requires a save vs death. fort saves. dc = 10 + CA level plus damage dealt divided by 10. this attack requires such focus a Combat archer is considered flat footed until his next turn.

Greater Point blank shot- At 6th level a Combat archer gains an additional +1 on Point blank shot.

Greater Rapid shot - At 7th level a combat archer can make a second attack at his second Highest base attack bonus 16/16/11/11/6/1.

Greater Shot on the run - At 7th level a Combat archer may make a Third shot while moving, there must be 10 feet of movement between shots.

Unyielding Precision - At 8th level a combat archer can find a vulnerable spot in anything, A combat archer can apply Precision damage on any creature even if it is normally immune.

Perfect point blank shot - At 9th level point blank shot bonus increases by a further +1 for a total of 4 .

Greater ranged Precision - At 9th level a combat archer adds a further 30 feat on his Precision attacks.

Improved Arrow Power - When using any bow, a 10th-level Combat Archer gains an additional +1 bonus (total of 2) on Crit multiplier. Furthermore, his threat range is tripled( 18-20 x 5)or (15-20 x 5 with Imp Crit) .

Perfect Shot on the run - At 10th level a Combat archer may make a 4th shot while moving, there must be 10 feet of movement between shots.



I based arrow power off Deep wood sniper and Disciple of Dispater.
the table you see now is the most up to date version.

[Tylorious]

repost this in the home brew section :)

[Phelix-Mu]

This probably belongs in the homebrew section of the forum. An Admin or Mod can move it for you (from what I've heard).

But props for helping out archers. And I *LOVE* Disciple of Dispater. If I wasn't so non-evil, I would have played one by now. And, actually, that PrC is a good way to model the increased crits that should come from being skillfully pegged in the face/neck/under the arm by a skilled archer.

[Jgosse]

repost this in the home brew section :)

Oh sorry I will ask to have it moved.

[Grod_The_Giant]

This is hideously difficult to read. At the very least, take everything out of those spoiler boxes. And may I suggest the table handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205677)?

As for the class itself... it gives you a lot of number inflation, but doesn't do much about the things that make archery really problematic-- wind, being feat-intensive, lack of a power attack equivalent*, and suchlike. It's not bad, as such-- you'll be critting like a lunatic and making a silly number of AoO's-- but it's not giving you many options.

I'd add an ability to ignore wind effects, including magical ones like wind wall. At level one, let them power attack with ranged weapons. Instead of granting Weapon Focus line feats, allow them to choose bonus feats from a short list.

And tone down those Arrow Power effects-- after 10 levels in this class, and with the inevitable keen enchantment, we're talking a 12-20/*5 critical range, if I'm doing the math right. That's just... it's kind of borked. Instead of doubling the crit range, expand it by one point, and note that it applies after Keen-- it'll still hit 17-20, which is a pretty respectable range if you're shooting off half a dozen shots a round. And maybe don't expand the multiplier at all.

(Oh, and "bow" isn't a valid target for weapon focus and the like. You'd need "longbow" or "shortbow," I think.)

*This is bad because it means that, without precision damage, archers have a hard time dealing with DR. A melee warrior can take a few big swings and punch through DR 10, but archery rely on volley fire to be effective, and DR hurts.

[Phelix-Mu]

This is hideously difficult to read. At the very least, take everything out of those spoiler boxes. And may I suggest the table handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205677)?

As for the class itself... it gives you a lot of number inflation, but doesn't do much about the things that make archery really problematic-- wind, being feat-intensive, lack of a power attack equivalent*, and suchlike. It's not bad, as such-- you'll be critting like a lunatic and making a silly number of AoO's-- but it's not giving you many options.

I'd add an ability to ignore wind effects, including magical ones like wind wall. At level one, let them power attack with ranged weapons. Instead of granting Weapon Focus line feats, allow them to choose bonus feats from a short list.

And tone down those Arrow Power effects-- after 10 levels in this class, and with the inevitable keen enchantment, we're talking a 12-20/*5 critical range, if I'm doing the math right. That's just... it's kind of borked. Instead of doubling the crit range, expand it by one point, and note that it applies after Keen-- it'll still hit 17-20, which is a pretty respectable range if you're shooting off half a dozen shots a round. And maybe don't expand the multiplier at all.

(Oh, and "bow" isn't a valid target for weapon focus and the like. You'd need "longbow" or "shortbow," I think.)

*This is bad because it means that, without precision damage, archers have a hard time dealing with DR. A melee warrior can take a few big swings and punch through DR 10, but archery rely on volley fire to be effective, and DR hurts.

I actually think a bow with a stupidly huge crit range is where the few archery PrC should have gone. Sure, a scimitar slash will dig in, and a greataxe that hits solidly will crush muscles, bones, and organs alike, but a skilled archer should be able to ferret out a weak spot and drill a freaking barbed arrow right through it. That should hurt. The skill represents the threat range, and the vicious, penetrating weapon represents the high multiplier (not sure it needs to climb to x5, though). This would also help avoid the moronic reliance on volleys and the splitting enchantment, all of which I find kind of counter the classic ace archer archetype.

Maybe a version of power attack that allows one to detract from to Hit and add to Crit Range? Hmm....

I totally agree about wind wall. You could even fluff this kind of ability pretty nicely. "Favored of Breezes," "Gust Proof," or "Magnetic Targeting" or some such. Lots of ways to go, but dedicated archers should be able to bypass these win-button spells.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I actually think a bow with a stupidly huge crit range is where the few archery PrC should have gone.
The issue is that, whether or not you agree with it, volley archers are the best option at the moment, so handing them 12-20/*5 critical weapons is absurd.

If you want to salvage it, make the expanded critical only apply when you shoot a single arrow. Maybe also add some single-target precision damage dice.

[Phelix-Mu]

The issue is that, whether or not you agree with it, volley archers are the best option at the moment, so handing them 12-20/*5 critical weapons is absurd.

If you want to salvage it, make the expanded critical only apply when you shoot a single arrow. Maybe also add some single-target precision damage dice.

Yet, Disciple of Dispater can and does pull off better damage and half or more as many better damage, Power Attack capable hits with a two-handed weapon. And its RAW, not Homebrew (if from a less-used book and with sketchy role play reqs). I've not looked at the numbers recently, but the Disciple can pull off a 50%/x4 rate, IIRC, without much cheese at all.

I'm not saying the above homebrew is balanced in concert with the high crit range, just that arrows can get pretty stupidly good and still lose out to a decent pouncer. Plus, archery op is generally just more clunky than melee op, so there is just more breathing room for melee builds to be creative. Archery deserves some of the same space, in my mind.

That aside, I agree that making it for single shots only might be a good compromise.:smallsmile:

[ddude987]

Is it generally accepted that power attack for archery would fix it? I'm not sure if that is the root of the problem but you could make a PrC based around that concept...

prereq: power attack, point blank shot
Abilities:
-you can power attack with bows
-When power attacks, gain benefits (or cool abilities) when subtracting a certain amount of BaB
-Pierce through walls, Pin people, Pierce through armor (touch attack arrow?), cripple appendages, knock items off the person (goodbye bag of holding?)
-Also add in abilities to help overcome some damage reduction

[Haldir]

Why, exactly, would a giant crit range on a huge volley of arrows be absurd? Even with that huge benefit, you're not going to breach T3 with the class.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Why, exactly, would a giant crit range on a huge volley of arrows be absurd? Even with that huge benefit, you're not going to breach T3 with the class.
You could also give a character the ability to kill anything by glaring at it, no save, and not have it breach T3. Tiers are about versatility, not balance.

The big crit range is absurd in combination with a large number of attacks because of probability-- you will be rolling those x5 crits a lot, and they'll add up fast. This class grants +6 from improved point blank and the weapon specializations; add +5 for a collision bow, +1 for the minimum enhancement bonus, +3 (say) for composite strength damage, and we're talking (d8+15)x5=97.5 damage crits, on average, in every full attack action.

[ngilop]

I have a Deepwood Sniper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16293250#post16293250) PrC fix .


you cna take a gander at it and glean some abilities from it ( look out its alot)

[Jgosse]

Sorry I have not responded to my own post. I have looked at what has been said and made some changes. I am not removing the Crit improvement. half the idea behind this is he is a canon.

[Jgosse]

You could also give a character the ability to kill anything by glaring at it, no save, and not have it breach T3. Tiers are about versatility, not balance.

The big crit range is absurd in combination with a large number of attacks because of probability-- you will be rolling those x5 crits a lot, and they'll add up fast. This class grants +6 from improved point blank and the weapon specializations; add +5 for a collision bow, +1 for the minimum enhancement bonus, +3 (say) for composite strength damage, and we're talking (d8+15)x5=97.5 damage crits, on average, in every full attack action.
or I could make a goliath disciple of dispater and use a great horn minotaur Great hammer get a 10-20 x 4 with a 16 BAB and a 30 str use barbarian and fighter for the base have something like 3d6 +25 and have crits hitting 12d6 + 100 and with whiling frenzy I get the extra attack and it will be RAW.

[Grod_The_Giant]

or I could make a goliath disciple of dispater and use a great horn minotaur Great hammer get a 10-20 x 4 with a 16 BAB and a 30 str use barbarian and fighter for the base have something like 3d6 +25 and have crits hitting 12d6 + 100 and with whiling frenzy I get the extra attack and it will be RAW.
So? I can get over 10,000 strength at character creation and have it be legal by RAW. I can deal literally infinite damage and have it be RAW. Just because the game can be broken, doesn't mean it should be. And it shouldn't be easy. (And I'd say that the Disciple's ability is silly too). There are probably more balanced ways to make the class a cannon.

But in any case, your class, your choice. I'm done on that count.

[Jgosse]

the build in question is at least ECL 16 and I don't think 100 damage is that out of line for that level and he is not looking at getting much better after that.

[Haldir]

I concur with the OP. Any decently built charge character with pounce is going to be dealing more damage with a full attack action. Why would you intentionally gut the arrows' lethality and call it balance?

[Jgosse]

I concur with the OP. Any decently built charge character with pounce is going to be dealing more damage with a full attack action. Why would you intentionally gut the arrows' lethality and call it balance?

Thank you.

Also I updated it a bit again, I did remove volley from the crit Bonus but did add some extras.

[Haldir]

You still have some serious formatting issues. Arrow Power is marked as 4th level skill in both the 5th and 10th level Special columns, and may I suggest that you pull the class feature descriptions out of the table?

That being said, while I certainly don't see an issue with your critical striking bonuses, I can't say I'm very thrilled with much of the other class features, as anything that increases linearly is almost always going to be underwhelming. Perhaps instead of increasing Point Blank Bonuses, you give the class some more utility. Staggering, Sickening, Disarming, and Tripping enemies as a free action on arrow crits, perhaps? Or if you manage to land multiple crits on the same target.

[ddude987]

Pretty cool abilities you have there, a few things to note:

In dnd 3.5 crit multipliers are additive (a x2 multipler and a x2 multiplier become x3 total.) As such arrow power should read to say increase the crit multiplier by x2.

I recommend putting ability names in the table and writing out the ability description below the table for readability and so you can say more (fluff, rules or whatever).

Lastly, the abilities you give are interesting and have good numbers on them, and you don't have any dead levels which is good, but they are just numbers. It seems to me you've reached a decent power level with this class, now perhaps add some flavor abilities or some abilities that make a character with this PrC unique. The "wind breaker" ability you have at level 3 is a good example of this.

[Jgosse]

I have made some changes and cleaned it up some more, added some new abilities and changed the prerequisite. I am still not sure what skills to require or what skills to use. I am thinking 4 + int for level but that's all I have for skills.

[Jgosse]

I have made some changes and cleaned it up some more, added some new abilities and changed the prerequisite. I am still not sure what skills to require or what skills to use. I am thinking 4 + int for level but that's all I have for skills.

made some other changes after this.

[Jgosse]

I can move things around give the improved point blank shot at 2/4/6/8/10 level, wind breaker at level 1 and the shot on the run at 3/6/9 that would give a new ability or improvement to an ability at every level. would that round out the class more?