The Final Gate

[Seeen]

The Final Gate is coming. There's still so much we don't know.

But we can speculate. We always do, anyways.

I suspect that Team Evil will successfully cast the ritual on the gate, and the Dark One will shift it to another plane. But not to one of the other gods' home planes.

I suspect he will shift it to his own home plane. But why? What's the purpose? Simple. What if he knows there's a world down there? A world of life. Inhabitable. ...Ripe for the taking. He has an army of every goblinoid that has died. He plans to take over the world, but not the one the Order is intending to protect. He plans to take over the world inside the world. He plans to send in his army and conquer it.

Wait- but this comic is still about the Order, right? They wouldn't be able to go into this world if the gate gets plane shifted, so what gives?

The rifts open to that world too.

Azure City's rift isn't exactly usable as it opens up to space, and the ocean within the desert rift isn't ideal for those in heavy armor. This leaves two. The one in Redmountain Hills, and the one left when Redcloak destroyed Lirian's Gate by accident. As most stories go, the place the heroes haven't yet visited is most likely to be their destination.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is going to get crazy.

EDIT: Actually, the world the order is in is also endangered- if the gate is shifted and the army goes in, they can also go out one of the rifts. So the other world is either being used as a passageway, or they intend to conquer two.

This would also match up to Redcloak "accidentally" destroying one of the gates- perhaps the Dark One instructed him to because the Dark One intended to use a rift to bring the army into the first world.

[orrion]

Wouldn't the other gods know about the world in the rift as well? As such, why would the world in the rift be a better choice for invasion than the current one?

Also, we don't even know if anyone can go through the rifts yet, so by extension we don't know whether anyone can go through a gate, either.

[Ramien]

:mitd: What Gate?

I don't think The Dark One has the information to make that type of plan. He pretty much knows what the other gods know, and they're so scared of the Snarl, that it's pretty much the ultimate terror weapon if it can be controlled.

[Dr.Gunsforhands]

I'm under the assumption that even the gods don't know what's going on with the rift-world. I mean, how would they? They've been steering clear of it as much as anyone. Probably more so.

[Seeen]

1. The gods aren't simply an organization of people with no unique attributes. All of them probably know things the others don't.

2. We don't know whether the Snarl story is 100% true.

3. The inner world is better for conquering because it's the one the army COULD go into, under previously mentioned circumstances.

[Oryutzen]

I'm fairly sure that tbe order's the only group that may be aware of the world in the rift, as they're the only ones that've really looked. The gods won't get close because they don't want to risk being erased, and the scribblers already died. Team evil hadn't looked, either, otherwise they'd have commented on it. And that would cover anyone who might've gotten to look inside that I know of.

[Souhiro]

I think that Team Evil will secure the gate. They will try to cast the ritual, but in some moment, they will try to kill each other, with most of the ritual still casted, Xykon could end it using a huecuva, and Redcloak could use any gobbo wizard.

Espect many "Undead are only tools" echo from Tsukiko, and such.

Finally, when the ritual is about to be casted, the order breaks in, disrupt everything, and they manage to torture Redcloak to death (THIS is the most important part in the comic: Torturing Redcloak to death. Many times. Bonus point if is Durkon who does the deed, since Gobbos are just easy XP for Clerics)

But then, the Dark One gets here! If mortals failed him, he will take thing in his hands. But... then, the Snarl will get free. He will open his cabin (His cabin?) to the most bloodthristy warrior, ever. To the one who could suit him best, exterminating the most annoying Gobbo ever: The Dark One. The Snarl will call for Belkar Bitterleaf to join him.

There's only one question. How does the snarl looks? Easy:

http://www.poeghostal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/pacific-rim-gipsy-danger-poe-ghostal-review-9.jpg

[ahdok]

I'm pretty sure that when Durkon returns to his homeland, he will bring ruin and destruction to it. And the Last Gate is in the dwarven lands, isn't it?

[Spoomeister]

Given how meta this comic has been of late, I would not be surprised if...

a) The Snarl is just a story told by (fill-in-the-old-antagonist-here), and has never existed or worked the way we've been told in the comic to date. It was just Shojo sending the characters on quests (see below).
b) The world inside the rift is our present-day Earth, and represents that The Order of the Stick is a story being told by Rich Burlew, on that planet.
c) Major elements of the final dungeon at Kraagor's Gate have already been laid out or foreshadowed by the Dungeon of Dorukan boardgame. By playing that game with the right characters and having certain encounters in the right sequence you basically get a preview of about 60 comics.

In fact, riffing off of all of that, one could retroactively surmise that Shojo was an analogue for the DM, and Miko was a player who tried to join the gaming group late, honked everyone off, and then the player's character was killed off when the group ousted Miko's player (which ties into Shojo / the DM's warnings to Belkar / Belkar's player).

:smallbiggrin:

(no snark intended here, I'm just being silly)

[Ceaon]

(THIS is the most important part in the comic: Torturing Redcloak to death. Many times. Bonus point if is Durkon who does the deed, since Gobbos are just easy XP for Clerics)

:smalleek:

I- I don't think this particular prediction will happen.

[orrion]

1. The gods aren't simply an organization of people with no unique attributes. All of them probably know things the others don't.

2. We don't know whether the Snarl story is 100% true.

3. The inner world is better for conquering because it's the one the army COULD go into, under previously mentioned circumstances.

We don't know that anyone can enter the gate. Or a rift.

[Lombard]

b) The world inside the rift is our present-day Earth, and represents that The Order of the Stick is a story being told by Rich Burlew, on that planet.


Ugh... the only thing I can think of that has scored as high on both the anticipation and disappointment meters as your prediction would, is Star Wars Episode 1..... :roy:

[Synesthesy]

The only sure thing is that someone lied.

But who?

We know little about gates:
-> rift CAN kill in horrible way (Reddie proved it in the first arc, if we don't trust any telling of past events)
-> sometime ago a GOOD team closed the gates to other (Soon was a LG paladin, of course, so the team should be Good)
-> Some Gods told a story to the paladins of the Sapphire guard about the Rift, the Snarl, etc. Good Gods, so they should not lie to their paladin.
-> Some OTHER God told another story to his Prophet about the Rift and the Snarl. The story of this god and the story of the other god can be both true
-> BUT there are some differences between the two stories: someone said Gods cannot interfere to the rift, and that they know little about the rift; BUT they are the ones that tell us the story (first of all, the Dark One, who was a God when he get knowledge about rift, gate and ritual to CONTROL a gate);

and, after all,
-> empirical evidences show no soulslayer monster, but a World, from two different point of view (far from space, and near within an ocean).

and at least, a meta-note:
-> the Snarl story is a symbol of players who argue about creating a world, destroing their world itself


So, what next?

[ChristianSt]

b) The world inside the rift is our present-day Earth, and represents that The Order of the Stick is a story being told by Rich Burlew, on that planet.

Not going to happen since it is already confirmed that the world inside the rift is not our earth (DStP commentary)

[Ramien]

The only sure thing is that someone lied.

But who?

We know little about gates:
-> rift CAN kill in horrible way (Reddie proved it in the first arc, if we don't trust any telling of past events)
-> sometime ago a GOOD team closed the gates to other (Soon was a LG paladin, of course, so the team should be Good)
-> Some Gods told a story to the paladins of the Sapphire guard about the Rift, the Snarl, etc. Good Gods, so they should not lie to their paladin.
-> Some OTHER God told another story to his Prophet about the Rift and the Snarl. The story of this god and the story of the other god can be both true
-> BUT there are some differences between the two stories: someone said Gods cannot interfere to the rift, and that they know little about the rift; BUT they are the ones that tell us the story (first of all, the Dark One, who was a God when he get knowledge about rift, gate and ritual to CONTROL a gate);

and, after all,
-> empirical evidences show no soulslayer monster, but a World, from two different point of view (far from space, and near within an ocean).

and at least, a meta-note:
-> the Snarl story is a symbol of players who argue about creating a world, destroing their world itself


So, what next?

We know someone was wrong, not necessarily that someone lied. There is a difference, and one that can matter a great deal once the truth actually is revealed.

Redcloak's/Xykon's testing in the first arc was also from the big Rune on Girard's gate zapping anything that tried to pass through, not from the Rift itself

[Seeen]

I don't see how any of this disproves the theory. Not that the theory is infalliable- I'm not saying that.

Consider this:

>Just because the gods SHOULDN'T lie to their paladins doesn't mean they WON'T. Even a Lawful being does crazy things for what they see as the Greater Good. (See: Miko)
>The gods have a blackout on information pertaining to the Gates/Rifts.
>The story of the gates has been passed along from Soon to Shojo's father to Shojo. We know Shojo is Chaotic Good. There's no proof he didn't twist the story, whether the one he was told was true or false.
>Xykon was not zapped by the rift, but by a rune on Girard's Gate.
>Sentient creatures in the Afterlife can only return to the real world by being Raised or Resurrected. That, or ghosts. It would take awhile to gather the things needed to resurrect the goblinoids in the Dark One's army, and the attempts would be easily noticed. Meanwhile, the Snarl can work as a cover story to keep mortals from realizing there is a world in the rift. People would likely be less worried about a lich trying to utilize the Snarl than a god trying to send an army into its world, on account of the fact the army consists of every goblinoid to ever die, whether they had been high-level, Epic, mid-level, or low-level, along with the fact there are still other rifts in the world that the army can march out of to reach the world we're focused on. Technically, both worlds are at risk... There's a chance the other will just be a passageway to the realm we're accustomed to.
>With how stories work, there wouldn't be a world in there if it didn't have some sort of significance. "Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?" -Elan

[Benthesquid]

Oy, Souhiro, do us a favor and throw that picture behind a spoiler so it stop breaking the page, yeah?

[Jay R]

The power of the Snarl will be destroyed forever once Frudu throws the Ming into a rift.

[MonochromeTiger]

The power of the Snarl will be destroyed forever once Frudu throws the Ming into a rift.

but will he really make it past cow-ron's army?

[Petey7]

So, The Dark One's army consist of every goblin to ever die, presumably including the ones who died being thrown in to Dorukan's Gate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0096.html)? Seems like a way for The Dark One to gain some knowledge the other gods don't have to me.

[Amphiox]

As such, why would the world in the rift be a better choice for invasion than the current one?

If the world in the rift is uninhabited, its a much softer target for invasion than the current world, where the goblinoids are hampered by centuries of oppression and marginalization into resource-poor lands.

But if travel is possible through the rifts, the world-in-the-rift, once occupied by goblinoid forces, becomes a splendid base of operations from which to launch a full scale invasion of the current world, with its politically divided, squabbling entities.

The Dark One may be playing a long game here.

[Jackson Spades]

If the world in the rift is uninhabited, its a much softer target for invasion than the current world, where the goblinoids are hampered by centuries of oppression and marginalization into resource-poor lands.

But if travel is possible through the rifts, the world-in-the-rift, once occupied by goblinoid forces, becomes a splendid base of operations from which to launch a full scale invasion of the current world, with its politically divided, squabbling entities.

The Dark One may be playing a long game here.

That would certainly line up with the Dark One's stated goal of gaining control of a gate. There is one problem, though; we don't know that the world is uninhabited, and the gods probably can't say for sure either. Would the Dark One risk making an enemy of whoever may live in the rift, under the assumption they don't exist?

Actually, now that I think about it, he probably would. He seems desperate enough.

[Dr.Gunsforhands]

So, The Dark One's army consist of every goblin to ever die, presumably including the ones who died being thrown in to Dorukan's Gate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0096.html)? Seems like a way for The Dark One to gain some knowledge the other gods don't have to me.

I like the way you think, but the gate proper was still closed at the time. The goblins were technically getting killed by some magical trap or another that Dorukan attached to it, which wouldn't reveal anything more to them than to, say, Redcloak.

[JSSheridan]

If the Order can't beat Tarquin, how are they going to knock off Xykon?

[rodneyAnonymous]

If the Order can't beat Tarquin, how are they going to knock off Xykon?

Yes, all variables except the identity of the opponent will be exactly the same. How, indeed!!!

[orrion]

If the world in the rift is uninhabited, its a much softer target for invasion than the current world, where the goblinoids are hampered by centuries of oppression and marginalization into resource-poor lands.

But if travel is possible through the rifts, the world-in-the-rift, once occupied by goblinoid forces, becomes a splendid base of operations from which to launch a full scale invasion of the current world, with its politically divided, squabbling entities.

The Dark One may be playing a long game here.

Doesn't seem like a very good long term game with both of those gigantic "ifs" in there.

[Seeen]

You can never have THAT big a plan without "if" being so prominent, orrion.

[orrion]

You can never have THAT big a plan without "if" being so prominent, orrion.

If that really were the Dark One's endgame he would have told Redcloak to figure out whether someone could pass through the gate back when they were sitting in the dungeon and had one next to them.

Instead it was Xykon who kept trying to send stuff through, and every indication was that Redcloak was against it.

[Amphiox]

Just because the gods SHOULDN'T lie to their paladins doesn't mean they WON'T. Even a Lawful being does crazy things for what they see as the Greater Good. (See: Miko)

A question to consider, though. ARE the gods lying to their paladins?

See, no one's actually said that any of the available knowledge about the Gates ever actually came from any god. In fact it was hinted that the gods were deliberately keeping as mum as possible on that subject, refusing to answer questions about it when asked by their clerics and what not.

So Soon and co. somehow found information and pieced together what they thought was the story of the Gates/Rifts, but it is never made clear exactly where they got that info from. It may not be from any god or gods. And then Soon would pass it on to the paladins who succeeded him, but the Azurite pantheon may have had no part at all in this dissemination of info.

They may simply have been keeping quiet and not saying anything to the Sapphire Guard about the Gates, and just let the Guard believe what they may. For all we know, the Sapphire Guard might have been so sure of the story, so trusting of Soon, that none of them ever bothered to ask their gods directly about it, since it is something they think they already know.

[Souhiro]

If the Order can't beat Tarquin, how are they going to knock off Xykon?

Well, they had to fight Tarquin, The Linear guild, some traps, the interference of IIFC, and V's Guilt.

A fuill powered OOtS would break Redcloak's army easily. With Hit-and-Run tactics, Redcloak would fin out or efectives soon.
Zombie Goblins, you say? It's a great way to incite massive desertions, here.

In the other hand, I espect from some training montage from Julio Scondrel.

[Seeen]

If that really were the Dark One's endgame he would have told Redcloak to figure out whether someone could pass through the gate back when they were sitting in the dungeon and had one next to them.

Instead it was Xykon who kept trying to send stuff through, and every indication was that Redcloak was against it.

I didn't say that Redcloak knew about the plan. He could also know only the Snarl plan and just be obeying orders from his god.

[Kish]

Indeed, I think there is an excellent chance that the true Plan is something Redcloak knows barely more about than Xykon does.

[Seeen]

Any questions I neglected to answer?

[Timix]

Maybe the world inside the rift is the Snarl that formed itself into a world?

[Seeen]

Maybe the world inside the rift is the Snarl that formed itself into a world?

Like, perhaps it untangled or something? Hmmmm...

[Jackson Spades]

Here's a thought: what if everyone has the story backwards? We've been told that the Stickworld was built as a prison for the snarl, and have assumed from there that the world within the rifts was either locked away for some reason or is the result of the Snarl unraveling into a less chaotic form. But what if it is the other way around? What if the world seen through the rifts is actually the prison, and the Stickworld is the plane the Snarl was locked into? The world of the Order would then be the Snarl, or what's left of it.

Granted, there are a lot of holes in this theory (for one, where do the gods fit into this? Are they Snarl-made knockoffs of the real deals or did they lock themselves in or something?), but I haven't seen anyone suggest this before, and I thought I might as well throw it out there. :smallsmile:

[Jay R]

The snarl was made out of the threads of reality - the warp and weft of the first creation, literally born of deific frustration and hostility.

It contains - indeed, it is composed of - the raw materials of creation.

Without the gods pulling on it, maybe it slowly unsnarled, and thus re-created the old world - possibly a 1E or 2E world.

[orrion]

The snarl was made out of the threads of reality - the warp and weft of the first creation, literally born of deific frustration and hostility.

It contains - indeed, it is composed of - the raw materials of creation.

Without the gods pulling on it, maybe it slowly unsnarled, and thus re-created the old world - possibly a 1E or 2E world.

Plausible, but I disagree with the 1E or 2E part if it's going to be involved in this story. The Giant explicitly did not go forward to 4E. I doubt he goes backward to 1E or 2E.

[MonochromeTiger]

so this may be completely wrong but..what if the snarl is the world? not the one in the rifts but the one that's actually being traveled around in the comic, it's made of the strings that made the world and so is the "prison" it was put in. when the soon flashback happened the paws of the snarl were much smaller than how they looked in the snarl origin flashback (going from huge things to small enough to fit through and wave around in a person sized rift) perhaps that was the last bit of resistance it had from its change and the rifts are a sign of it "dieing" allowing access to the world it originally ravaged? ...but meh feel free to ignore my wild speculation.

[Seeen]

Wild speculation is the best kind, MonochromeTiger. Feel free.

[oonker]

You have to take some things into account, that I haven't seen anyone here do.

1 - You have to assume that no one is lying, and everyone's correct.
2 - You have to assume that, although everyone's correct, YOU are not in full control of every bit of knowledge
3 - The Snarl, as an entity, a god-killing machine, and a creature, exists.
4 - We don't know why, in at least 4 months, it hasn't shown a single paw outside the rift in Gobbotopia, when there was signs of missing bears and the death of Soon's wife, along with Kraagor.
5 - We don't know why, in the at least 4 months that passed since the fall of Azure City, the rift grew larger. Even larger than any other rift.
6 - We don't know the age of the world, but it is probably a lot older than the OotScribbles.

This leaves me a few questions and conclusions:

1 - Something happened, in the last 60 years, that turned the Snarl into a World OR that tamed the Snarl OR that put the Snarl in slumber.
2 - The full functionality and methodology of the Gates seem extremely traumatic to the fabrics of reality.
3 - The only single sign of awareness of a world inside a rift comes from Blackwing. Is there a possibility that it got it wrong, or maybe that it wasn't able to grasp the significance and meaning of what it saw?


Those are my considerations, folks! But what I don't seem to see people take into account is that the missing cog is in the last 60 years, not in the origin of time. At least in my understandment.

[Jay R]

Those are my considerations, folks! But what I don't seem to see people take into account is that the missing cog is in the last 60 years, not in the origin of time. At least in my understandment.

Good point. Two additions to that world sixty years ago are Soon's wife and Kraagor. They might have somehow changed the situation.

[b_jonas]

If the Order can't beat Tarquin, how are they going to knock off Xykon?


Yes, all variables except the identity of the opponent will be exactly the same. How, indeed!!!

Indeed, the identity of the opponent is what makes all the difference: Roy has a sword that glows with deadly green energy particularly harmful to the undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html) and can be buffed with Disruption (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0104.html) so one hit will utterly destroy Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html).

[Zerozzz0290]

You have to take some things into account, that I haven't seen anyone here do.

1 - You have to assume that no one is lying, and everyone's correct.
2 - You have to assume that, although everyone's correct, YOU are not in full control of every bit of knowledge
3 - The Snarl, as an entity, a god-killing machine, and a creature, exists.
4 - We don't know why, in at least 4 months, it hasn't shown a single paw outside the rift in Gobbotopia, when there was signs of missing bears and the death of Soon's wife, along with Kraagor.
5 - We don't know why, in the at least 4 months that passed since the fall of Azure City, the rift grew larger. Even larger than any other rift.
6 - We don't know the age of the world, but it is probably a lot older than the OotScribbles.

This leaves me a few questions and conclusions:

1 - Something happened, in the last 60 years, that turned the Snarl into a World OR that tamed the Snarl OR that put the Snarl in slumber.
2 - The full functionality and methodology of the Gates seem extremely traumatic to the fabrics of reality.
3 - The only single sign of awareness of a world inside a rift comes from Blackwing. Is there a possibility that it got it wrong, or maybe that it wasn't able to grasp the significance and meaning of what it saw?


Those are my considerations, folks! But what I don't seem to see people take into account is that the missing cog is in the last 60 years, not in the origin of time. At least in my understandment.

Agree on many things, one question, wasn't Kraagor killed by the "Gate Creating Spell"? We did see Dorukan shouting he couldn't cast the spell while Kraagor was still in the way. And another point: we can see an ocean (or sea) on Girards rift, I doubt Roy would be unable to grasp the inmensity of whatever he is seeing.

[Jay R]

Agree on many things, one question, wasn't Kraagor killed by the "Gate Creating Spell"? We did see Dorukan shouting he couldn't cast the spell while Kraagor was still in the way.

We don't see a body afterwards. Either he was disintegrated by a non-disintegrating spell, or he was trapped in the rift with the snarl.


Plausible, but I disagree with the 1E or 2E part if it's going to be involved in this story. The Giant explicitly did not go forward to 4E. I doubt he goes backward to 1E or 2E.

True, but it happened before comic #1, so it can't be 3.5E. If it's 3E, will Vaarsuvius be able to teleport in the rift?

(And technically, he does go back to 1E. Ian is a 1E thief.)

[Finwe]

Indeed, the identity of the opponent is what makes all the difference: Roy has a sword that glows with deadly green energy particularly harmful to the undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html) and can be buffed with Disruption (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0104.html) so one hit will utterly destroy Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html).

Well, actually, it just produces a weak save-or-die effect. One that's unlikely to affect Xykon at all, given his level: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disruptingWeapon.htm

[orrion]

True, but it happened before comic #1, so it can't be 3.5E. If it's 3E, will Vaarsuvius be able to teleport in the rift?

(And technically, he does go back to 1E. Ian is a 1E thief.)

No, Haley says Ian WAS a 1E thief. There's nothing to suggest he didn't upgrade to the newer editions.

[David Argall]

You have to take some things into account, that I haven't seen anyone here do.
This leaves me a few questions and conclusions:

1 - Something happened, in the last 60 years, that turned the Snarl into a World OR that tamed the Snarl OR that put the Snarl in slumber.
or...
The Snarl simply has long periods of inactivity and nothing we know about has changed its bedtime. Or...
All we have seen was the activity of some wandering monster, which the snarl has gotten around to destroying now. The Snarl itself has not changed at all. or...
The Snarl has just unraveled over time. or ... or ... or...
We have far too few facts for any conclusion, and getting more facts looks dangerous.



2 - The full functionality and methodology of the Gates seem extremely traumatic to the fabrics of reality.
Not especially. It might be, but it is the violent end of the gates at seems to cause problems. You can shut off a faucet or turn it on without much traumatic happening, but when you hack off the faucet, you have problems.



3 - The only single sign of awareness of a world inside a rift comes from Blackwing. Is there a possibility that it got it wrong, or maybe that it wasn't able to grasp the significance and meaning of what it saw?
Most of the party has now looked into a rift. It is still possible that each view is of some illusions, but the presumption is that they have all seen a "reality". Now what it means is not at all clear. Is this world going to crash into the OOTS world when the last gate is destroyed? Is the Snarl now playing with making worlds and is pretty much harmless? Or is ... Again the "best" conclusion is that we don't know enough to have any serious idea.

[MartianInvader]

I'm hoping that the world across the rifts is somehow directly related to Kraagor. Maybe he was able to reign in the snarl, or merge with it, through the sheer grit and determination his soul gained from a lifetime of adventuring and hardship that the Gods never knew. He pulled the threads together and became the sole god of a new world.

[Jay R]

No, Haley says Ian WAS a 1E thief. There's nothing to suggest he didn't upgrade to the newer editions.

Sure, but that's all I need to defend my speculation that other editions might still pop in.

Rich didn't say that he wouldn't use other editions; merely that he wouldn't convert the heroes to 4E.

[Drakilian]

This would also match up to Redcloak "accidentally" destroying one of the gates- perhaps the Dark One instructed him to because the Dark One intended to use a rift to bring the army into the first world.

Nah, that was pretty clearly an accident on redcloak's part
SoD Spoiler:

He didn't have a fire spell prepared the first time they entered the fight against Lirian's Ents, so on the day he turned Xykon into a lich and Xykon blasted them all out of the place, Redcloak made sure to specifically prepare fire spells so that the event didn't repeat itself. After he killed the first Ent, and triumphantly shouted his victory at it, it fell over, setting another ent on fire, and another, and another, and another... Eventually, the forest burned down

[Drakilian]

You have to take some things into account, that I haven't seen anyone here do.

1 - You have to assume that no one is lying, and everyone's correct.
2 - You have to assume that, although everyone's correct, YOU are not in full control of every bit of knowledge
3 - The Snarl, as an entity, a god-killing machine, and a creature, exists.
4 - We don't know why, in at least 4 months, it hasn't shown a single paw outside the rift in Gobbotopia, when there was signs of missing bears and the death of Soon's wife, along with Kraagor.
5 - We don't know why, in the at least 4 months that passed since the fall of Azure City, the rift grew larger. Even larger than any other rift.
6 - We don't know the age of the world, but it is probably a lot older than the OotScribbles.


I've been doing this the entire time myself, haha. We've really been given absolutely no reason to think that any part of the origin story was a lie...



3 - The only single sign of awareness of a world inside a rift comes from Blackwing. Is there a possibility that it got it wrong, or maybe that it wasn't able to grasp the significance and meaning of what it saw?


Nope, the order also saw a world (Well, an ocean) inside the rift after they blew up the first gate.

However, why is it so implausible that the demiplane the snarl was on isn't also a world itself?
Understandably, one might think that the Snarl would have unravelled any world it had been trapped on, but it could easily be said that it had not bothered to do so, focusing instead on a mindless attack against the "walls" of his prison (Which could have provoked the rifts)

[ChristianSt]

Nope, the order also saw a world (Well, an ocean) inside the rift after they blew up the first gate.

Nitpick: that was the 2nd gate (Girard's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0898.html)) the Order blew up.
The first Gate they did destroy was Durokan's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0118.html), and we haven't seen anyone revisiting the ruins of Durokan's Castle and haven't seen any hint at the riftworld there.

The credit for Soon's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0462.html) gate goes to Miko and Lirian's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html) gate got destroyed by Redcloak/an accident if you want to believe him, but Redcloak did cast a fire spells against some treants, and that caused a wildfire which destroyed the gate, so imo he did blew it up.

[oonker]

I've been doing this the entire time myself, haha. We've really been given absolutely no reason to think that any part of the origin story was a lie...

yeah, sorry, I've seen your posts. I mistakenly put "everyone", instead of "almost everyone".


Nope, the order also saw a world (Well, an ocean) inside the rift after they blew up the first gate.

Well, we have to assume the two things: Blackwing saw a world, and :roy: 's gang saw an ocean. They might be part of the same world, they might not. Someone pointed out that this difference might be due to the spatial allocations of the rifts: Soon's rift was high in the sky, while Girard's was below ground. If you look from the sky, you see the world, if you look below the ground, you'll see the ocean (maybe in the world-inside-the-rift there's an ocean over there?).


However, why is it so implausible that the demiplane the snarl was on isn't also a world itself?
Understandably, one might think that the Snarl would have unravelled any world it had been trapped on, but it could easily be said that it had not bothered to do so, focusing instead on a mindless attack against the "walls" of his prison (Which could have provoked the rifts)

Nothing is implausible. As I've said, we have to assume that everything is true. Otherwise, we'd just be arbitrarily (does this word exist? I'm not a native english speaker) choosing what is wrong and what is right.

[The Glyphstone]

What gate? How did I manage to post that first?

[Seeen]

What gate? How did I manage to post that first?

:xykon: "Oh, for the love of- look!"

It is rather odd you got that first, though.

[Ramien]

What gate? How did I manage to post that first?

You didn't... check my post back on the first page. :smalltongue:

[Seeen]

You didn't... check my post back on the first page. :smalltongue:

Plot twist.

...Or... something.

I'm beginning to fear this theory will be proven or disproven earlier than expected.