If you played Roy...

[pendell]

... Would you consider taking a level or two of some magic-using class? Clearly he's got the int stat for it. And some divinatory magic might help him out considerably.

Or would that detract too much from the pure fighter he already is, and does well?

Haven't played many multiclass characters, except in Wizardry I where a mage/priest multiclass combo turned out to be pretty near useless. But a level 13 fighter/level 1 mage (or priest or whatever) doesn't detract as much .. he'd still be a good fighter, it would just give the character a slightly larger set of things he could do. The ability to throw "magic missile", perhaps, or cure light wounds.

Which brings up a question:

Why exactly does Roy have such a contemptuous attitude towards magic? Rebellion against his father?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Kesnit]

... Would you consider taking a level or two of some magic-using class? Clearly he's got the int stat for it. And some divinatory magic might help him out considerably.

Or would that detract too much from the pure fighter he already is, and does well?

Haven't played many multiclass characters, except in Wizardry I where a mage/priest multiclass combo turned out to be pretty near useless. But a level 13 fighter/level 1 mage (or priest or whatever) doesn't detract as much .. he'd still be a good fighter, it would just give the character a slightly larger set of things he could do. The ability to throw "magic missile", perhaps, or cure light wounds.

INT is only the casting stat for Wizards, and if he takes a level of WIZ, he's subject to Arcane Spell Failure. (Not sure what kind of armor he wears, but I would assume Medium, if not Heavy.)

If Roy took a level of Cleric, he wouldn't be subject to ASF, but he would be a lot less useful as a healer than Durkon.

Which brings up a question:

Why exactly does Roy have such a contemptuous attitude towards magic? Rebellion against his father?

Respectfully,

Brian P.[/quote]

[elliott20]

I'd say his aversion to it has more to do with his father than anything else. I mean, if somebody was telling you that you're worthless unless you do that one thing they tell you to do, you'd probably feel a little resentful towards it as well.

[Duke of URL]

... Would you consider taking a level or two of some magic-using class? Clearly he's got the int stat for it. And some divinatory magic might help him out considerably.

Or would that detract too much from the pure fighter he already is, and does well?

Nah... pickup up Whirlwind Attack and go for Weapon Master specializing in Greatsword. Roy's a little too "square" for any type of strange class combos.

Other characters and possible PrCs or other multiclassing...

Durkon: probably none; he's a pretty devoted Cleric and primarily a healer

V: unlikely to multiclass to anything that would distract from the pursuit of ultimate arcane power... Archmage does come to mind, however.

Haley: Shadowdancer is always a nice touch for sneaky characters, but in a stick-figure strip, we've already seen SD ins ineffective due to the lack of shadows.

Belkar: He's already in MC hell... I couldn't even imagine a base class he'd want to throw in that mix. A touch of Assassin would be in character, but probably is out of the question while he's part of OotS.

[Green Bean]

Roy takes far too much pride in his single-classing to consider picking up a spellcasting class. Besides, it would make his fathre happy, and no one wants that :smallbiggrin:

[elliott20]

I also doubt that PrCs are going to be a mainstay in the comic. I think Elan's one foray into it will probably be the last of PrCs we're gonna see from an OOTS. I can't necessarily say the same for the NPCs though.

[Don Julio Anejo]

If this were NWN I would take a 2 levels of rogue for evasion, tumble and use magic device.. but this isn't NWN so you can't really do that =(

[Mjoellnir]

If I played Roy I don't know what I would do, because I would never ever start with a fighter (too few skill points), but honestly, he's good as he is, maybe he could become Weapon Master, but anything else would make him a worse fighter and leader. (And as long as Belkar is around he cannot become a paladin!:smallsmile:

[Flabbicus]

Psion? :tongue:

[jakeyizle]

I'd take a level or two in cleric, that way I don't have to count on Durkon for healing during a battle.

[zeratul]

The main reason is rebellion against his father yes. it's mentioned several times (mainly after his sword is broken). although i agree it would be usefull to him.

[Sebastian Bux]

... Would you consider taking a level or two of some magic-using class? Clearly he's got the int stat for it. And some divinatory magic might help him out considerably.

Or would that detract too much from the pure fighter he already is, and does well?

Haven't played many multiclass characters, except in Wizardry I where a mage/priest multiclass combo turned out to be pretty near useless. But a level 13 fighter/level 1 mage (or priest or whatever) doesn't detract as much .. he'd still be a good fighter, it would just give the character a slightly larger set of things he could do. The ability to throw "magic missile", perhaps, or cure light wounds.

Which brings up a question:

Why exactly does Roy have such a contemptuous attitude towards magic? Rebellion against his father?

Respectfully,

Brian P.


This post does not take in any additional points of view and is meant as an response to the original poster only. If I'm repeating other people's comments it is purely coincidence.

If I were Roy ...

I don't know if it's that he has the INT for it or the WISdom for it. I'm more inclined to assume it's wisdom. He's intelligent, sure, but I think it's his smarts that he imploys most often. To me there's more wisdom there.

As a leader of men (and women (or woman if V's actually a guy)) he has to be able to trust the other members of his party to watch his back and do the roles they were designed for. He trusts that Durk will heal when needed, that V will cast the spell most appropriate for the situation, that Elan will put himself in as much danger as possible as to require everyone to drop what they are doing and rescue him, etc... But the point is, he's the leader. If he took levels in another class he might be saying to the person he doubles up on that they can't cut it on their on.

Now, take the party out of the equasion for a moment and then again consider the question .. would you multiclass Roy. Hmm, I don't think would. But if I were to think of appropriate classes to choose, I might go down the route of Ranger or Pally. Of course, once he goes down Pally it's all or nothing (since in 3.5 you can't switch out of Pally without losing abilities (if I recall (man, that's the second double parens in one post (actually, we're up to four now but I just like math so... )))).

In his current state, he probably doesn't need to multi. I've always liked the straight fighter. You can really define him with the right feats so you don't really need to pull in another class. Spells really won't benefit him at this point anyway. And again, the party thing... he's got the friends to compensate for his short comings.

It may have been answered, but I believe the contempt comes from the fact his father tried to force the Wizard class on him when he was growing up because that's what his father was. He rebelled against that and followed the way of the sword.

[pestilenceawaits]

Psion? :tongue:

Yep thats the way I'd go.

[ibitak84]

Well, if I played Roy... it would likely be under D&D rules. But he's really far to high level to start leveling as a caster now. After all, he'd only get very inefficient spells, just like any other character with one or two levels in a casting class. (Remember though, that monsters grow with adventurers; the OotS are meeting monsters only really vulnerable to spells of a mage of Vaarsuvius callibre.) At the same time, it would seriously diminish his fighting power: Caster classes grant less attack bonus and hit points, which would be fatal against a single class fighting character as Thog, for example.

[Flabbicus]

At the same time, it would seriously dminish his fighting power: Caster classes grant less attack bonus and hit points, which would be fatal against a single class fighting character as Thog, for example.

Thog is a multiclass Barbarian/Fighter. Who only picked up two levels in fighter because fighter level 3 is dumb. thog not take (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0064.html)

Or I might be misreading your post.

[Sebastian Bux]

Well, if I played Roy... it would likely be under D&D rules. But he's really far to high level to start leveling as a caster now. After all, he'd only get very inefficient spells, just like any other character with. (Remember, monsters grow with adventurers; the OotS are meeting monsters only really vulnerable to spells of a mage of Vaarsuvius callibre.) At the same time, it would seriously dminish his fighting power: Caster classes grant less attack bonus and hit points, which would be fatal against a single class fighting character as Thog, for example.

Though you have to admit, having True Strike (a first level spell that gives the character an automatic +20 to hit on their next attack) would be rather useful. Though I still agree it's not practical at this point in his career.

[Mawhrin Skel]

"Like a member of any other class, a paladin may be a multiclass character, but multiclass paladins face a special restriction. A paladin who gains a level in any class other than paladin may never again raise her paladin level, though she retains all her paladin abilities."
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm

If I were playing Roy, I'd consider going Paladin. He appears to have the Wis and Cha to make it worthwhile.

We've seen what happens when Durkon is disabled. A back up healer would be very useful. Relying on V to cast Owl's Wis on Belkar is less than ideal as Belkar is apt to wander off.

As has been pointed out, Roy couldn't go Pal with an evil char in his party, and he may have been put off for life by Miko. Also, he's not pious enough.

[ibitak84]

Thog is a multiclass Barbarian/Fighter. Who only picked up two levels in fighter because fighter level 3 is dumb. thog not take (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0064.html)
Or I might be misreading your post.Not really, it's just that D&D and me are running out of vocab here. (Like up a level, down a level ;))
Barbarian and Fighter are both classes that grant the same, the highest attack bonus and very good hit points. They are... well, not warriors, which is another class altogether, but "combatant classes".
Of course, technically all classes and characters are combatants, but caster-types usually have less of an attack bonus, because they use spells instead (Which, too can be attacks, but use different mechanics).
Though you have to admit, having True Strike (a first level spell that gives the character an automatic +20 to hit on their next attack) would be rather useful. Though I still agree it's not practical at this point in his career.*admits* ;)

[I_Got_This_Name]

If I were playing Roy, I might consider a dip into Marshal (if I had the Cha for it); two levels and I lose one point of BAB, but get +1 to the entire party's melee attacks, so it evens out, and I get to add +Cha to something else for the whole party.

I'd also consider a Warblade rebuild, but that might just be since I like the ToB.

[Kilbia]

My RPGA character is almost pure rogue, but I'm taking one level of sorceror for grease and sniper's shot. After that, though, it's back to rogue.

So yeah, I see it being worthwhile to take *a* level of something else if it might be able to boost your "main" abilities in the long run, but I don't think Roy is the kind of character who would think that way.

[Snake-Aes]

Roy doesn't fit well for multiclass... If much, weapon master... He really loves that sword.

[pendell]

If he took levels in another class he might be saying to the person he doubles up on that they can't cut it on their on.


See, my attitude would be just the opposite ... my engineering background. And in that background there is one phrase dreaded more than any other:

"Single point of failure".

And that would be my beef with the OOTS -- they are all extremely competent, but they are all good at *one thing* and if that specialist is incapacitated or conveniently missing, they have a big, gaping hole there.

Durkon is a healer. What if the bad guys get surprised and he's incapacitated on the first round? Aside from any healing potions, that's IT. There IS no healing mojo in the party.

V is a world-class spellcaster. But if something happens to him (cone of silence, say), then there ain't no arcane magic in the party. And so on.

Which is why ... not from a roleplaying, but from an engineering point of view -- I would encourage a little bit of cross-classing. Not much, just a level or two so that there's a little redundancy in the "system" that is an adventuring party. And Roy is the most likely candidate, because he's such a straight fighter, and if *anyone* could benefit from multi-class it would be a pure fighter.

I would think.

But that doesn't take the *character* into account, of course.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Sebastian Bux]

Well, one could also use Football as a great example. You don't expect your best players to get hurt, but when they do, you have backups that aren't quite as good as the real thing but can get you through the season.

In that respect, I see the point of having a cross class situation taking place. But I think there's one aspect that we're ignoring: The Hero factor.

Thre are the heroes of the story. The fact of the matter is they are blessed in a way only the DM (in this case the Giant) understands. Where your common adventurers fail, the OOTS fails with style! Where you common adventures succumb to a well placed silence spell, the OOTS laughs (albiet slently) in the face of such a challenge!

But look at some of the great tales out there like Dragonlance:

Tanis - Fighter (or Ranger)
Flint - Fighter
Tas - Thief .. .um, I mean borrower
Goldmoon - Cleric
Riverwind - Barbarian (or Ranger)
Caramon - Fighter
Rasitlin - Mage
Sturm - Fighter (but really is kind of a Paladin)

If there's one thing this list shows you it's that you really need to be doubling up on your fighter classes. A good core fighting team is able to protect the squishys long enough for them to be effective. It should be noted that Goldmoon wasn't a cleric in the traditional D&D sense.

So I would say it's less that Roy should multiclass and more so that they need another fighter *cough* Thog *cough*. Belkar, while great for comic relief really doesn't belong in a party of mostly good aligned characters. I'd almost say that he should one day turn on his former party and join the Linear Guild. He's just the thing they need to be ... well, about as successful as they currently are. Lol

[elliott20]

Also, I don't see Roy as someone who FIT in any other class in terms of his personality.

He might have a decent CHA score to make a paladin worthwhile. but he's missing the very much real religious component in his persona to make that work. Same with any other class. His outlook in life just isn't conducive for him to be that way. the only thing that he might have the gift for, would probably be a mage, like everybody has said. But the fact of the matter is, he has a reason to detest practicing wizardry himself.

If there was a combatant class out there that employs their INT, WIS, or CHA score that does not throw some religious component into the mix, then maybe I can see Roy doing it.

[Mawhrin Skel]

Roy may not have high enough DEX (13) for the Weapon Master prereqs. The geekery thread speculates that it's his dump stat.

[Duke of URL]

Roy may not have high enough DEX (13) for the Weapon Master prereqs. The geekery thread speculates that it's his dump stat.

I dunno... he goes with medium armor, so I'd imagine he'd want a decent DEX. I think WIS is his dump stat -- I mean... let's face it, he has both Elan and Belkar in the party, that's gotta say "massively unwise" to any unbiased observer.

Edit: Yes, I've seen where the Giant himself says Roy has a very good WIS; I just don't see how that is represented in the strip.

[Dane_Bramage]

If I were playing Roy... I would just keep stacking more and more fighter levels. TBH, at high levels, nothing can deal the amount of damage as a fighter. Sure, there are spells that kill with a word, but round for round, time and time again, fighters deal damage. That is their job, and they do it well.

Taking 1 level of some spell caster is mostly pointless. Sure, True Strike is nice, but once you get 15th lvl and higher, your ATK bonus is up in the 20s and 30s. Does True Strike actually do anything at that point? Let me say it this way... there is a reason it's a first level spell, becuase it is useful at low levels. Same with healing... What does a fighter with 120+ hit points want with a Cure Light (1d8+1). Oooh... 5 hit points (average). That's enough to save you... for a round.

Sorry, nope. Gotta stick with the fighter.

[Sebastian Bux]

Weapons Master is a Prestige Class, not a standard class. A character with one or more Prestige Classes is not considered multiclassed.

[Shanrina]

If I were playing Roy, I think I probably would multiclass, but not to a magic-user. Probably a rogue to make up for whatever Haley's rogue-ish dump stat may have been (though she never seems to have any problems...can't say I remember any cases of her trying to pickpocket, though, so maybe that's it). Plus, he could get a little bit of a sneak attack as well as tumble and use magic device so if they found, say, a wand of some sort, then he could use that in a fight so V could go straight to his memorized spells.

Plus (and this may just be me) for some reason I really, really don't like playing straight-up fighters because I just feel so limited whenever I try.

[Mawhrin Skel]

How about Barbarian? Rage and fast movement with one level.

[Sebastian Bux]

Well, in the end, if we were playing Roy I think we'd all be looking at our own prestige classes by now. A straight fighter like Roy can really benefi down the road from a good, solid, prestige class. Weapons Master is a good suggestion, mentioned earlier. He really seems to love that sword.

As for Barbarian, I never liked the barbarian class personally. Only because I see barbarian as a subclass to fighter, not really a class all it's own. barbarian always came across to me as a lifestyle. You're part of a tribe and all that. I don't know. It's my least favorite class.

[elliott20]

I'll bet Roy does dirty dirty things with that sword at night.

[Taelas]

I dunno... he goes with medium armor, so I'd imagine he'd want a decent DEX. I think WIS is his dump stat -- I mean... let's face it, he has both Elan and Belkar in the party, that's gotta say "massively unwise" to any unbiased observer.

Roy wears heavy armor.

[Duke of URL]

Roy wears heavy armor.

Not according to the "Class and Level Geekery" thread -- of course, that also points out that Roy has a very good WIS (according to The Giant, but not evidenced in the strip as far as I can tell) and therefore speculates DEX as a dump stat.