M&M Immunity to Damaging Effects

[Joval]

So I have this brand new campaign, and I am trying to teach the players, from the very beginning, that games aren't just hack and slash, and that that strategy is needed.

For this, the first opponent they face off with is a Adamantine Golem type thing. It's a construct, and it has immunity to damaging effects. This left nothing but containing it. The team speedster wound up doing a knockback attack (Move Object), then the team mage decided to freeze it solid, as if it were the Evil T-1000, and finally the team earth bender caved in the ground around it, and slammed the ground shut around it, shattering it fairly well.

I thought it was super creative, so I let them have it, but I think I did it wrong. As I am still fairly new to the game, I wanted some input.

The Flash Freeze was the power we modeled it after, with Alternate Resistance (Dodge), and it seemed fairly straight forward after that. It reduces Toughness. With that in mind, I wasn't sure how to weaken it from the "Immune" rank.

That's where my question is. The power the Golem had was "Immunity to Damaging Effects", not Immunity to "Toughness Effects" so I figured it was okay to do. I didn't know what to reduce it from, since the rank was "Immune", so I just used the Power Level +1 as the stat that it had to be reduced from.

Is that reasonable, or should I have handled it differently?

[Beleriphon]

So I have this brand new campaign, and I am trying to teach the players, from the very beginning, that games aren't just hack and slash, and that that strategy is needed.

For this, the first opponent they face off with is a Adamantine Golem type thing. It's a construct, and it has immunity to damaging effects. This left nothing but containing it. The team speedster wound up doing a knockback attack (Move Object), then the team mage decided to freeze it solid, as if it were the Evil T-1000, and finally the team earth bender caved in the ground around it, and slammed the ground shut around it, shattering it fairly well.

I thought it was super creative, so I let them have it, but I think I did it wrong. As I am still fairly new to the game, I wanted some input.

That is awesome. And completely reasonable.


The Flash Freeze was the power we modeled it after, with Alternate Resistance (Dodge), and it seemed fairly straight forward after that. It reduces Toughness. With that in mind, I wasn't sure how to weaken it from the "Immune" rank.

If it reduces toughness score, and the thing is immune to toughness based damage effects then nothing is going to work to reduce Toughness resistance since it doesn't matter at all.


That's where my question is. The power the Golem had was "Immunity to Damaging Effects", not Immunity to "Toughness Effects" so I figured it was okay to do. I didn't know what to reduce it from, since the rank was "Immune", so I just used the Power Level +1 as the stat that it had to be reduced from.

Is that reasonable, or should I have handled it differently?

Realistically there isn't much difference between blanket damage effects and effects that target toughness. You can't really weaken immunities as such. I mean you can, but you'd need to wipe out enough ranks to reduce the entire immunity to make it worthwhile.

[Jlerpy]

Yeah, there's not a way to do that by weakening Toughness.
My advice would actually have been: Don't give it Immunity, just more Impervious Protection than they can deal with without clever stuff like the above. It amounts to much the same thing, but lets you actually do stunts like this to get around it.

[Ranos]

I'd have asked for an extra effort on that one, for a power stunt on the Flash Freeze. Make it into a good old nullify, with the right extras to make it work.

[Jlerpy]

I guess it could work as a Nullify, but then suddenly it goes from totally indestructible to ... what? Totally vulnerable? Did it have a CON at all?

[Joval]

That is awesome. And completely reasonable.

Thanks! I thought it was very well done. I appreciate all of your input. I was a bit ambitious getting into the game before I had a better handle on the game, so I really appreciate all the help in straightening out my misunderstandings.


It amounts to much the same thing, but lets you actually do stunts like this to get around it.

Awesome! And costs a fraction of the Power Points, too.


I'd have asked for an extra effort on that one, for a power stunt on the Flash Freeze. Make it into a good old nullify, with the right extras to make it work.

Great idea. I could have done something like a linked Nullify/Weaken, with a Cold descriptor. Thanks!

[Joval]

I guess it could work as a Nullify, but then suddenly it goes from totally indestructible to ... what? Totally vulnerable? Did it have a CON at all?

I had thought about that. I'm guessing it goes to whatever the Stamina was before purchasing the Immunity, right?

[Jlerpy]

I had thought about that. I'm guessing it goes to whatever the Stamina was before purchasing the Immunity, right?

Yep. I just thought, with it being a golemy thing, that it might have 0 Con, but immunity to Fortitude stuff. With something that wasn't also immune Toughness things, you'd buy its Toughness up to a pleasing level, but one may well not bother if it's immune.

[Joval]

Yeah. Realistically, it wouldn't likely be that way, but since it's a point buy system (and I can't imagine someone spending points in that way) I suspect lots of folks would wind up in a bad predicament, using Immunity to Damaging Effects

[Beleriphon]

Yeah. Realistically, it wouldn't likely be that way, but since it's a point buy system (and I can't imagine someone spending points in that way) I suspect lots of folks would wind up in a bad predicament, using Immunity to Damaging Effects

Just to clear here, Immunity to All Damage is basically is Immunity to Toughness. You can have Immunity to a specific damage descriptor (say Fire or Slashing) but all Damage descriptors is functionally the same as the 80 point immunity to effects targeting Toughness.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think you could draw a mechanical distinction between Immunity (Damage) and Immunity (All effects resisted by Toughness)-- while they'd have basically the same effect, there are border cases like this one where it really comes down to the GM's call about what the immunity was supposed to be.

That said, I agree that Nullify was the right choice here, but it's a minor enough power stunt that it's not a big deal.

[Tengu_temp]

Enemies that are immune to toughness effects still can be beaten using powers that target one of the other saving throws. And if you don't have any such powers? Well, that's what Extra Effort is for!