Which is a better archer rogue build for pathfinder?

[MrGoodGames]

I've been toying around with building a goblin rogue archer for pathfinder and came up with two builds. Which is better? Any suggestions would also be great. The first build gives me sneak attacks with all my attacks because of shatter defenses, but the second build looks like i would be very mobile and could possibly stay out of danger better because I would'nt be standing in the open launching a full attack.

Race: Goblin: -2 strength, +4 Dexterity, -2 charisma
Class: Rogue
Archtype: Rake and Scout
Traits: Omen and Color Thief
Level 1 Feat: Point Blank Shot
Level 2 Rogue Talent: Combat Trick: Precise Shot
Level 3 Feat: Taunt
Level 4 Rogue Talent: Weapon Focus
Level 5 Feat: Dazzling Display
Level 6 Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick: Deadly Range
Level 7 Feat: Roll With It
Level 8 Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick: Deadly Range
Level 9 Feat: Shatter Defenses
Level 10 Advance Rogue Talent: Skill Mastery (Bluff, Acrobatics, Stealth, Perception)
Level 11 Feat: Rapid Shot
Level 12 Advanced Rogue Talent: Feat: Many Shot
Level 13 Feat: Totem Spirit (Tamir-Quah)
Level 14 Advanced Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick: Deadly Range
Level 15 Feat: Fleet
Level 16 Advanced Rogue Talent: Hunter's Surprise
Level 17 Feat: Skill Focus: Bluff
Level 18 Advanced Rogue Talent: Hunter's Surprise
Level 19 Feat: Skill Focus: Acrobatics
Level 20 Advanced Rogue Talent: Hunters: Surprise

OR

Race: Goblin: -2 strength, +4 Dexterity, -2 charisma
Class: Rogue
Archtype: Archer and Scout
Traits: Pragmatic Activator and Color Thief
Level 1 Feat: Point Blank Shot
Level 2 Rogue Talent: Combat Trick: Precise Shot
Level 3 Feat: Roll With It
Level 4 Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick: Deadly Range
Level 5 Feat: Totem Spirit (Tamir-Quah)
Level 6 Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick: Deadly Range
Level 7 Feat: Fleet
Level 8 Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick: Deadly Range
Level 9 Feat: Vital Strike
Level 10 Advance Rogue Talent: Skill Mastery (Bluff, Acrobatics, Stealth, Perception)
Level 11 Feat: Skill Focus (Acrobatics)
Level 12 Advanced Rogue Talent: Stealthy Sniper
Level 13 Feat: Extra Rogue Talent: Improved Evasion
Level 14 Advanced Rogue Talent: Hide in Plain Sight
Level 15 Feat: Improved Vital Strike
Level 16 Advanced Rogue Talent: Skill Mastery (Disable Device, Sense Motive, Use Magic Device, and Escape Artist)
Level 17 Feat: Skill Focus: (Stealth)
Level 18 Advanced Rogue Talent: Skill Mastery: (Knowledge Local, Knowledge Dungeoneer, Climb, Slieght of Hand)
Level 19 Feat: Greater Vital Strike
Level 20 Advanced Rogue Talent: Cripling Strike

[magotter]

In terms of damage, Rake and Scout are far and away the better combo. Really, to gain Sneak Attack on (nearly) every attack you only need Rake and Shatter Defenses. On round 1, either get in a Sneak Attack normally or just make a Dazzling Display to demoralize foe. and then on every subsequent attack, drop 1d6 Sneak for a free intimidate to ensure permanent Shatter. Tada, you're the best Bullyboy you can be.

Now that said, Shatter Defenses doesn't come online until level 8 for you, and around this time doing pure damage not only stops being fun, but stops being the most viable route for combat. Especially when facing waves of mooks.

As for the second build and the 'Archer' you mentioned... well, Archer is a Fighter Archetype. The only really ranged-focused Rogue Archetype is Sniper, so I'm going to go on a limb and assume you meant that. Correct me if I'm wrong. and don't misunderstand: The actual Archer archetype is actually good for a 3 or 4 level dip, one of the few times an extended stay as a fighter works. but I'll get to that below.

Now, Sniper is good because it keeps you well out of combat range. I see you put Vital Strike on, too, which is great. If it is at all possible, get either a wand of, or a weapon enchanted with, the spell Gravity Bow. It'll turn that 1d8 Bow into a 2d6 weapon, which is still doubled for Vital Strike. You're still focusing on damage, and doing less, but you'll be a smarter rogue, staying out of sight, and using feats like Move-By Attack to pop out of cover, fire a single crack shot, and then duck back in. Again, less damage, infinitely more practical survivability.

now then, the proper Archer archetype from fighter. Good for at least 3 levels, maybe 4 if you wanna trade an extra 1d6 Sneak for a feat. Archer lets you perform an array of interesting maneuvers at range, and with it, Agile Maneuvers, and a really good Dex, you can still keep pace with the casters by becoming a Shutdown Machine. All the better that you can do it at range. You sacrifice a lot of damage dealing (though with Scout you're still getting the Sneak damage off at least once a round), but you become a better team player, as standing still on a full attack you can trip, sunder, and disarm all the foes around you (Recall that maneuvers are made 'in place of a melee attack' and have no moniker as to what type of action they take. so if you get multiple attacks, you get multiple maneuvers).

Now, all this said and done, feel free to tell us more about the campaign. If you can, let us know about your
Current Level
Suggested Max Level
Point Buy / Stat Method
Party Layout; their races and classes
Starting / Current Gold
etc., etc., etc.

[MrGoodGames]

First off thank you for your advise I had come to many of the same conclutions and was leaning towards playing the sniper, and yes
meant sniper, not archer. I did not realize the thing about manuevers eiether. Pretty Cool. The starting level sounds like between level 1-3. Im actually running a game now, but do miss playing an actual character of my own. My friend will run the next campaign, and it will take place in the forgotten realms. He prefers the epic point spread for players, and I dont mind it, though I know its not needed. We have a strong player base who tend to make good reliable characters. We would also attempt to level all the way to 20 and beyond if at all possible, but normally our games wont last past 15th level. We would start with gold appropriate for which ever level he decides on. I'm really the only one looking so far ahead so I have no idea as to what the other players would decide to play, but their would most likely be 5 of us. More than I like, but still an acceptable number to me.

[Ravens_cry]

Tiefling might be the best race. Why? This (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/blinding-sneak-attack-combat)feat. Hit them once, and if they fail their save, just keep shooting. Rinse, lather, repeat. If you can finagle access to some rare cantrips, particularly Penumbra (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/rare-cantrips) you can have the darkness descriptor on you all day.

[MrGoodGames]

Thats a pretty nasty feat. I like it. :smallsmile: