Bypass Critical Hit Immunity?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Are there ways to deal critical hit damage to someone immune to them normally?
If not are there at least ways to make sneak attack work against everything?

[cakellene]

Different ways to bypass it, depending on source of immunity.

[Story]

Type immunities (Undead, construct, etc.) are easy to bypass. Other immunities (Warshaper, Fortification) are difficult or impossible to bypass.

For sneak attacking specifically, stuff like Death's Ruin as well as Wraithstrike, Golemstrike and Vinestrike are helpful. Also Deathstrike bracers can bypass type immunities 3/day, and there are probably lots of others I've forgotten.

But the thing is that undead are a common problem so it has feats, ACFs, and spells devoted to it. Noone ever sat down to write something letting you sneak attack Warshapers.

[cakellene]

Type immunities (Undead, construct, etc.) are easy to bypass. Other immunities (Warshaper, Fortification) are difficult or impossible to bypass.

For sneak attacking specifically, stuff like Death's Ruin as well as Wraithstrike, Golemstrike and Vinestrike are helpful. Also Deathstrike bracers can bypass type immunities 3/day, and there are probably lots of others I've forgotten.

But the thing is that undead are a common problem so it has feats, ACFs, and spells devoted to it. Noone ever sat down to write something letting you sneak attack Warshapers.

They would be smacked with PHB repeatedly if they did.

[Curmudgeon]

If not are there at least ways to make sneak attack work against everything?
Not everything, no. But the Lightbringer Penetrating Strike ACF (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, page 208) will let a Rogue trade trap sense for the ability to deal sneak attack damage (with ½ the normal dice) to sneak-immune foes while flanking them. This still won't work on things which are unflankable (elementals, oozes, and swarms). But it's a pretty good start, considering the Craven feat provides a non-dice bonus to sneak attack, and thus Lightbringer Penetrating Strike won't reduce that.

[Mr Adventurer]

Complete Champion has that ability in it, no need to go to a Ravenloft sourcebook.

[Curmudgeon]

Complete Champion has that ability in it, no need to go to a Ravenloft sourcebook.
I'm afraid you're mistaken.

[Feytalist]

Complete Champion has that ability in it, no need to go to a Ravenloft sourcebook.

Complete Champion has Death's Ruin, a similar but much more restrictive ACF. (That is; it only works on undead, not all sneak-immune enemies.)

...although, Death's Ruin just specifies Sneak Attack, no mention of flanking. So flat-footed undead are susceptible too.

[Devronq]

About bypassing fortification, its often granted by a magical item and you could sometimes sunder the item dependent on what it was

[Red Fel]

As I recall, Ghost Strike (an upgrade of Ghost Touch) not only lets you hit incorporeal foes, it also lets you sneak attack and crit them.

That said, you could use Skirmish (the Scout) ability, which works on a Ranger's favored enemy when combined with the Swift Hunter feat. But that's not Sneak Attack, just a Sneak Attack equivalent.

[Mr Adventurer]

I'm afraid you're mistaken.


Complete Champion has Death's Ruin, a similar but much more restrictive ACF. (That is; it only works on undead, not all sneak-immune enemies.)

...although, Death's Ruin just specifies Sneak Attack, no mention of flanking. So flat-footed undead are susceptible too.Fair enough, I missed the fine detail :).

Still worth noting for the thread though!

[ShurikVch]

... Lightbringer Penetrating Strike ACF (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, page 208) ...
Why not a Penetrating Strike from Dungeonscape? It have nearly identical RAW, not setting-specified (in a setting from which planar travels are impossible), and was printed later

[kardar233]

Why not a Penetrating Strike from Dungeonscape? It have nearly identical RAW, not setting-specified (in a setting from which planar travels are impossible), and was printed later

I believe that it doesn't specify that the damage it does is sneak attack damage, meaning that you don't get bonuses from things that trigger on sneak attack such as Craven.

[tyckspoon]

I believe that it doesn't specify that the damage it does is sneak attack damage, meaning that you don't get bonuses from things that trigger on sneak attack such as Craven.

It means it's not clear if you do or don't and may have to argue with your DM about it. Lightbringer Penetrating is clear about it, and since it has a different name you don't have to deal with trying to argue about updates and replacements.

[ShurikVch]

It means it's not clear if you do or don't ... Do or don't what? :smallconfused:
Also, it can be called "unclear" only if DM hate rogues... Especially rogues with Craven, who are not RP it... :smallwink:

[Dusk Eclipse]

Not everything, no. But the Lightbringer Penetrating Strike ACF (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, page 208) will let a Rogue trade trap sense for the ability to deal sneak attack damage (with ½ the normal dice) to sneak-immune foes while flanking them. This still won't work on things which are unflankable (elementals, oozes, and swarms). But it's a pretty good start, considering the Craven feat provides a non-dice bonus to sneak attack, and thus Lightbringer Penetrating Strike won't reduce that.

Darkstalker allows you to flank creatures with the all-around vision quality, though I can't remember any monster with that from the top of my head; probably beholders but sincd they aren't OGL I can't check at the moment .

[Curmudgeon]

Do or don't what? :smallconfused:
deal sneak attack damage with Dungeonscape Penetrating Strike.

That ACF doesn't say so. If you're dealing some untyped bonus damage rather than sneak attack damage, Craven bonus to sneak attack will not apply, nor will the Rogue be able to use ambush feats and other options dependent on sneak attack. As tyckspoon stated, you can simply avoid the issue by choosing the ACF which uses clearer language.

[Person_Man]

Skullclan Hunter PrC from the Miniatures Handbook allows you to auto-Sneak Attack undead. You don't even have to qualify for Sneak Attack via flanking or whatnot, you just deal your Sneak Attack damage against them on every attack.

Kas Vestige (Binder) from Dragon Magazine #something also lets you bypass the critical immunities from undead, and when you successfully crit anyone they must Save or be Blinded.

But in general, Sneak Attack is just an unreliable and inefficient way to add bonus damage. If you want to play a Rogue or Scout or Ninja for the Skills, great. But if you want to deal a lot of damage and not worry about immunities, look elsewhere.

[ShurikVch]

That ACF doesn't say so. If you're dealing some untyped bonus damage rather than sneak attack damage, Craven bonus to sneak attack will not apply Craven is overrated


nor will the Rogue be able to use ambush feats and other options dependent on sneak attack Constructs and undead are mostly immune anyway, except Eldritch Erosion and, maybe something else


As tyckspoon stated, you can simply avoid the issue by choosing the ACF which uses clearer language. And DM can say it's not a Ravenloft campain

[Story]

But in general, Sneak Attack is just an unreliable and inefficient way to add bonus damage. If you want to play a Rogue or Scout or Ninja for the Skills, great. But if you want to deal a lot of damage and not worry about immunities, look elsewhere.

The most powerful and reliable damage dealing in our current party is a Ninja/Rogue/Master Thrower. He knocked out two Mariliths in a single round at level 11.

Admittedly Maiming Strike doesn't work so well against constructs since even with a wand of Golem Strike, they're still immune to CHA damage. But we haven't faced many constructs, and we also have a Warblade in the party for killing stuff the regular way if need be.

[Icewraith]

The problem is that something that lets you sneak attack the un-sneakattackable doesn't usually specify that it also lets you critically hit such creatures.

[Curmudgeon]

The problem is that something that lets you sneak attack the un-sneakattackable doesn't usually specify that it also lets you critically hit such creatures.
That's correct. The unusual situation is if you've got both Lightbringer Penetrating Strike and Telling Blow: the combination means you'll make critical hits. If being immune to critical hits is what makes the creature immune to sneak attack, because Telling Blow enables sneak attack specifically on a critical hit, your attack is specified to work (except with ½ the dice) because Lightbringer Penetrating Strike says so.

[Captnq]

Are there ways to deal critical hit damage to someone immune to them normally?


Yes.

If you use google, you will find a few dozen threads on this very topic.