PDA

View Full Version : I need some pathfinder character advice. (Half-Orc Paladin)



Drizheim
2013-11-21, 02:40 PM
I am playing a Half-Orc Paladin and it's my first time playing Pathfinder. My group has long played D&D 3.5 until recently.

My question is pretty simple, we're doing the Council of Thieves module (please no spoilers or experience ruining info about it!) and I just wanted some suggestions on feat selection. We did the dice pool ability score method and these are mine (used the +2 racial score boost on Cha).

Str 18 (put level 4 ability point into, may not be too late to change)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 17
Wis 15
Cha 16 (used my racial +2 on, but it may not be too late to change)

Our group has a bard with a Cha of 20, but mostly 12's after that, a Fighter/Barbarian with high physical scores (all 3 at least 16) and an 8 int, and a pure-archer Ranger. We're all level 4.

I have two feats to pick and I was considering taking advantage of my intelligence by getting Combat Expertise and either Improved Disarm or Improved Trip. The other option I was thinking was taking Power Attack and Combat Expertise then at 6th level getting Weapon Focus (Longsword) or again, Improved Disarm or Improved Trip. I am also considering taking two levels in fighter for bonus feats later but I am told this module ends around level 13.

What do you guys think?

Deathkeeper
2013-11-21, 02:58 PM
Well, it matters a lot what you'd like to do. Would you prefer to go Sword and Board or a nice 2-handed weapon? Power Attack benefits the latter much better.
You mentioned the WF: Longsword, but I wanted to make it pretty clear about your weapon choice. You should know that you can only cast Paladin spells using a buckler or light shield, since Heavy Shields require the hand to be held properly.

Psyren
2013-11-21, 04:44 PM
So your actual stats are 18, 17, 15, 14, 14, and 14? Nice spread.

I'd put the 17 in Str and then put the +2 there for 19. That way you'll have a nice hefty +5 mod at level 4 (though I admit I don't know how high that module goes.) All your stat boosts can then go to Str.

I'd then do the 18 in Cha or Con, the 15 in the other one, and the 14s everywhere else.

Drizheim
2013-11-21, 06:27 PM
Well, it matters a lot what you'd like to do. Would you prefer to go Sword and Board or a nice 2-handed weapon? Power Attack benefits the latter much better.
You mentioned the WF: Longsword, but I wanted to make it pretty clear about your weapon choice. You should know that you can only cast Paladin spells using a buckler or light shield, since Heavy Shields require the hand to be held properly.

I forgot about the shield consideration.

I am also considering putting my ability point into Dex and getting Two-Weapon Fighting and Double Slice since I have proficiency with an Orc Double Axe. The downside is I won't go much farther in dual-wielding without a serious increase to dexterity.

Psyren
2013-11-21, 06:31 PM
I wouldn't bother with high Dex - you want to be in full-plate, so you won't get an awful lot out of it thanks to the cap.

CombatOwl
2013-11-21, 08:47 PM
I forgot about the shield consideration.

I am also considering putting my ability point into Dex and getting Two-Weapon Fighting and Double Slice since I have proficiency with an Orc Double Axe. The downside is I won't go much farther in dual-wielding without a serious increase to dexterity.

Four general ways to build a paladin:

Ranged (Holy Gun/Archer) -- Need Dex and Str more than anything else, followed by cha. Take point blank shot, precise shot. Your next feat ought to be Rapid Shot if Archer, Rapid Reload if Holy Gun. Archer is strictly better than Holy Gun, but if you want to play with guns, Paladins can do it.

Two Handed -- Need Str and Con, followed by Cha. Take Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Falchion, Greatsword). Your next feat can be pretty varied, depends on your play style. This can reach very high damage.

Sword and Board -- Need Str and Cha, followed by Con. Take Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Shield Bash. You can then attack with sword and shield and keep your damage high enough not to be a complete joke--while still keeping the high AC. Your next feats ought to put you into the improved combat maneuver of your choice. I suggest trip, but there are other worthy choices (sunder for example).

Mounted -- Need Str and Cha, followed by Con. Take Mounted Combat and Ride-By-Attack (edit: forgot, vital strike is +6 minimum). Remember, charging while on a mount is literally the only time you can vital strike on a charge (because when charging on a mount, you still get all of your actions--the mount uses its own actions for movement). Don't forget that the mount can also attack. You want to build the vital strike chain, spirited charge, and power attack. Focus on lances, since they double damage on a mounted charge (which stacks with vital strike). Triple damage with Spirited Charge. This route works best if you're small sized, since you can ride medium mounts in 5ft hallways. If you're absolutely sold on half-orc, this is probably not a great choice.

And, yeah, forget dex if you're not doing a ranged paladin. Use full plate.

MonochromeTiger
2013-11-21, 08:54 PM
Four general ways to build a paladin:

Ranged (Holy Gun/Archer) -- Need Dex and Str more than anything else, followed by cha. Take point blank shot, precise shot. Your next feat ought to be Rapid Shot if Archer, Rapid Reload if Holy Gun. Archer is strictly better than Holy Gun, but if you want to play with guns, Paladins can do it.

Two Handed -- Need Str and Con, followed by Cha. Take Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Falchion, Greatsword). Your next feat can be pretty varied, depends on your play style. This can reach very high damage.

Sword and Board -- Need Str and Cha, followed by Con. Take Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Shield Bash. You can then attack with sword and shield and keep your damage high enough not to be a complete joke--while still keeping the high AC. Your next feats ought to put you into the improved combat maneuver of your choice. I suggest trip, but there are other worthy choices (sunder for example).

Mounted -- Need Str and Cha, followed by Con. Take Mounted Combat and Ride-By-Attack (edit: forgot, vital strike is +6 minimum). Remember, charging while on a mount is literally the only time you can vital strike on a charge (because when charging on a mount, you still get all of your actions--the mount uses its own actions for movement). Don't forget that the mount can also attack. You want to build the vital strike chain, spirited charge, and power attack. Focus on lances, since they double damage on a mounted charge (which stacks with vital strike). Triple damage with Spirited Charge. This route works best if you're small sized, since you can ride medium mounts in 5ft hallways. If you're absolutely sold on half-orc, this is probably not a great choice.

And, yeah, forget dex if you're not doing a ranged paladin. Use full plate.

I have to say the mounted option is the only one I've actually seen a paladin use (they seem to love their holy-horses) but as I have to confess my personal love of greatswords, nothing says intimidating righteous judgement like a half orc with a divinely lit greatsword and gleaming plate-mail..

Pex
2013-11-21, 09:12 PM
I'm playing a paladin (human) in one of my group's games. I took Power Attack using a great sword. The damage adds up quickly. I have 18 Strength with a +1 sword. At 7th level I do 2d6 + 13 damage per hit, and that's before Smite Evil. Next level is 2d6 + 16. I also have Furious Focus feat to negate the Power Attack penalty on the first attack. It's not an absolute requirement, but it does help.

My AC isn't spectacular, though not garbage, in platemail. Naturally it improves against whom I'm smiting. Protection From Evil helps against those I'm not smiting. However, I'm not too worried. I only have 14 Con, but I use hit points for my favored class bonus and took Toughness. Also, since I can use Lay On Hands on myself as a swift action, I'm not hurting for hit points or AC. As an extra cushion, I took the feat Greater Mercy which adds 1d6 to Lay On Hands when used on someone who doesn't have a mercy condition. For desperate measures when things just don't go my way, I also have the spell Hero's Defiance. When I'm brought below 0 hit points as an immediate action I can cast the spell which allows me to use Lay On Hands on myself with an extra 1d6 from the spell. Greater Mercy can still add its extra d6. I am not going down easily.

As an aside, a nice armor enchantment for paladins is Champion armor which gives +2 sacred bonus to AC against the opponent you are smiting.

Spore
2013-11-21, 10:20 PM
Orcs get proficiency with Falchions. And while it may not be the best weapon, it is fun for crit builds and twohanded paladins alike (nothing like a crit with smite evil on top to explode that nasty demon or undead).

As Psyren suggested:

Str 20 Dex 14 Con 15 Int 14 Wis 14 Cha 17

Start off with
(1) Power Attack (-2 Attack, +6 damage for falchions)
and then continue with buffing your lay on hands (swift action to heal self)
(3) Extra Mercy (+1d6 healing when lay on hands doesn't remove a status effect)
(5) Weapon Focus (Falchion)
(7) Critical Focus
(9) Improved Critical (Falchion)

(4) +1 Str
(8) +1 Cha
(12) +1 Con

Buy a Mithral Full Plate, a magical Falchion +1 and some boots of striding and springing. You will be set. Also remember that Smite Evil and Lay on Hands work different now! Maximum HP for a Paladin is nearly negligible because you can heal every turn (and thus increasing the amount of lay on hands per day is superior to increasing the amount of maximum hp).

Drizheim
2013-11-21, 10:48 PM
Orcs get proficiency with Falchions. And while it may not be the best weapon, it is fun for crit builds and twohanded paladins alike (nothing like a crit with smite evil on top to explode that nasty demon or undead).

As Psyren suggested:

Str 20 Dex 14 Con 15 Int 14 Wis 14 Cha 17

Start off with
(1) Power Attack (-2 Attack, +6 damage for falchions)
and then continue with buffing your lay on hands (swift action to heal self)
(3) Extra Mercy (+1d6 healing when lay on hands doesn't remove a status effect)
(5) Weapon Focus (Falchion)
(7) Critical Focus
(9) Improved Critical (Falchion)

(4) +1 Str
(8) +1 Cha
(12) +1 Con

Buy a Mithral Full Plate, a magical Falchion +1 and some boots of striding and springing. You will be set. Also remember that Smite Evil and Lay on Hands work different now! Maximum HP for a Paladin is nearly negligible because you can heal every turn (and thus increasing the amount of lay on hands per day is superior to increasing the amount of maximum hp).

I had to open my book and read it to believe it. Wow, Lay on Hands as a swift action on yourself.

I agree I should definitely get Extra Mercy. To all the great sword suggestions, I agree it's an awesome idea, but greatsword paladin is a little overdone for me, even though Half-Orc Paladin definitely isn't, and somebody else in our group is already playing the greatsword fighter/barbarian.

I definitely agree on the mithril fullplate. I want it bad.

Falchion is more Orcish and I may end up with that or a longsword, I still have a week to make my final changes. It seems the consensus is I should definitely be a STR paladin.

Spore
2013-11-21, 11:15 PM
Well, I could give you an unusual build for a defensive paladin but it uses an archetype: Hospitaler (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/coreClasses/paladin.html#_hospitaler)

If you slightly optimize your AC you can reach AC 33 to 35 by level 8-9 and pick up more healing from Hospitaler, your party will love you. It stresses the healing part of the Paladin, giving you healing powers superior to those of many clerics and en par to oracles. This build also synergizes with a shield build.

Two-Weapon Fighting with Sword and Board is nifty and great, but I don't think it suits the feat starved Paladin. Make yourself the healer and Maneuver Master of your group then.

(1) Combat Expertise
(3) Improved Trip
(5) Weapon Focus (Flail) (maybe selective channeling)
(7) Antagonize (forces creatures to attack you with Intimidate)
(9) Intimidating Prowess

Use a flail.

This should be with a on Lv 9 (focus you ability increases just on Str) with Str 23 (+2 Belt), +2 Flail, Improved Trip and BAB of 9: 6 + 4 + 2 + 9 = 21 CMB. If you smite it and get Weapon Focus you can get up to 25 to trip a Hezrou (CR 11) on 80% of the cases.

Provoke the enemies to attack you, trip the idiots and administer hurt for those who cannot be saved and show mercy on those who give up.

Drizheim
2013-11-21, 11:23 PM
Well, I could give you an unusual build for a defensive paladin but it uses an archetype: Hospitaler (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/coreClasses/paladin.html#_hospitaler)

If you slightly optimize your AC you can reach AC 33 to 35 by level 8-9 and pick up more healing from Hospitaler, your party will love you. It stresses the healing part of the Paladin, giving you healing powers superior to those of many clerics and en par to oracles. This build also synergizes with a shield build.

Two-Weapon Fighting with Sword and Board is nifty and great, but I don't think it suits the feat starved Paladin. Make yourself the healer and Maneuver Master of your group then.

(1) Combat Expertise
(3) Improved Trip
(5) Weapon Focus (Flail)
(7) Antagonize (forces creatures to attack you with Intimidate)
(9) Intimidating Prowess

Use a flail.

This should be with a on Lv 9 (focus you ability increases just on Str) with Str 23 (+2 Belt), +2 Flail, Improved Trip and BAB of 9: 6 + 4 + 2 + 9 = 21 CMB. If you smite it and get Weapon Focus you can get up to 25 to trip a Hezrou (CR 11) on 80% of the cases.

Provoke the enemies to attack you, trip the idiots and administer hurt for those who cannot be saved and show mercy on those who give up.

Unfortunately, since this is my entire group's first time playing pathfinder, including my DM, he's only allowing the Core Rulebook for our first module run through until he can read the others.

Spore
2013-11-21, 11:25 PM
The build works with standard paladin just fine. Maybe exchange weapon focus with extra mercy then (because you'll need a bit of healing power then).

Drizheim
2013-11-22, 04:11 PM
The build works with standard paladin just fine. Maybe exchange weapon focus with extra mercy then (because you'll need a bit of healing power then).

I am going to take some of your advice I think and definitely get extra mercy and probably go for more of a tank/healing build since our group has nobody else who can really do it. The Fighter/Barbarian is going for the pure-strength intimidater build and getting things for his intimidate skill and rage powers/feats that utilize intimidate.

I will, however, not use a shield, simply for roleplay reasons. I see paladins as medieval Jedi in a way and being more of a classical/intelligent swordsman who uses a longsword and no shield is attractive to me character-wise. It's also easier to be versatile and switch between one/two-hands, which is even more valuable if I decide to get power attack.

So I'll try to maximize my lay on hands ability for the damage I'll be taking and try to increase my AC in other ways than using a shield.

mythmonster2
2013-11-22, 04:52 PM
Just a note on the Extra Mercy thing, I think Sporeegg may have mixed up Extra Mercy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/extra-mercy---final) (which allows you to pick one extra Mercy effect to be applied with your Lay on Hands), and Greater Mercy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/greater-mercy) (which does what he said, adding +1d6 when Mercy is not applicable on a Lay on Hands)