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Magnus_Samma
2007-01-11, 09:44 PM
I'm thinking of developing a character that fights with their fists, but the only real options in that area seem to be taking monk levels for unarmed damage (which sucks if I want the character to wear armor) or enchanting spiked gauntlets, which really aren't great weapons. Is there any supplement anywhere with anything resembling a better gauntlet-like weapon, or should I eat the monk levels and deal with it?

oriong
2007-01-11, 09:49 PM
Well, the stats for a punch dagger could easily be adapted to a better guantlet weapon. it still sucks, but it's got a better crit mod.

If you want to make an Exotic 'heavy cestus' there's no reason you can't simply shift the stats of the weapon appropraitely. An exotic version of the spiked gauntlets would probably do something like 1d6-1d8 damage, with a x3 crit modifier.

Or if you wanted to play totally within the rules you could even Monkey Grip a Large Spiked Gauntlet, for a 1d6 weapon. Of course, you don't want to do this.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-11, 09:53 PM
Would a homebrewed character class be better up your alley? Because I made one, and it's right here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=135431&postcount=6).

Skyserpent
2007-01-11, 09:54 PM
Well, the Swordsage has a lot of unarmed fighting options and theres this feat in Book of Nine Swords that basically gives you an almost "monk unarmed strike" damage...

Kantolin
2007-01-11, 10:01 PM
Interestingly, subpar as it may be, a monk can wear heavy armour without losing their unarmed damage bonus.

Wearing heavy armour loses you your Wisdom bonus to AC and Ac bonus, fast movement, and flurry... but it doesn't effect your straight unarmed damage.

Of course, at a later glancing you'd also lose out on evasion (But, strictly according to RAW, interestingly not improved evasion), and it's not like the monk is a great class as is to lose out on abilities. But Fighter 1 / Monk 19 can go in armour.

I'm sure the people here will have better ideas, though.

Darrin
2007-01-11, 11:37 PM
I'm thinking of developing a character that fights with their fists, but the only real options in that area seem to be taking monk levels for unarmed damage (which sucks if I want the character to wear armor) or enchanting spiked gauntlets, which really aren't great weapons. Is there any supplement anywhere with anything resembling a better gauntlet-like weapon, or should I eat the monk levels and deal with it?

Improved Natural Attack + Superior Unarmed Strike is a nice two-feat combo. Add an Ascetic feat on there to count some non-monk levels towards your unarmed damage, toss in a few Enlarge Persons here and there, and you can get some pretty decent barehand whoopass going.

If you're looking to enchant something other than spiked gauntlets, I think a Monk/Kensai can enchant their unarmed strikes (although you get seriously shafted on BAB).

If you want to avoid Monk entirely, then try the Shou Disciple (3.0 Forgotten Realms... but hey, ^o^ Martial Flurry! ^o^) Swordsage has some very interesting tricks, especially if you go into Bloodclaw Master.

Magnus_Samma
2007-01-13, 01:16 AM
Hmmm, I'm seeing some sexy ideas here. Thanks a lot! ^_^

Darrin> What book is the Ascetic feat from?

Fizban
2007-01-13, 01:46 AM
Complete Adventurer. The problem is, you just spent three feats to get monk unarmed damage. I'd say just get superior unarmed strike, that'll give you enough base damage to work with.

What you really need is weapon enhancements (fire, frost, etc) and power attack. I don't remember what the majority belief was on the monk+gauntlet thread, but a non-monk unarmed striker should have no problems using an enchanted gauntlet to improve his abilities. Power attack is tickier, since it doesn't work with light weapons. You'll have to houserule it in, probably with either a feat to let it apply to unarmed strikes, a PA specifically for unarmed strikes, or an ability to put on the gauntlets to do it.

oriong
2007-01-13, 02:39 AM
Power attack does work for unarmed strikes just fine, it would work fine with a normal gauntlet too, although not technically a spiked one.

JungeonJeff
2007-01-13, 03:16 AM
3.0 Sword & Fist had a Bladed Gauntlet if i remember correctly. Not a big change, but still an improvement, (some fiends of mine made a nasty Ninja of the Cresent Moon with those).

Miles Invictus
2007-01-13, 03:18 AM
Since you're only taking Monk to up the unarmed damage, why not only take a few levels of Monk, and then focus on a complementary combat class like the Fighter?

A Monk 4 would get 1d8 unarmed damage, a fair number of Stunning Fist uses, Evasion (which works in light armor, even if it's gained as a Monk ability), +2 saves vs. enchantments, and the ability to penetrate DR/magic. Adding 16 levels of Fighter will net you armor proficiencies, Greater Weapon Specialization (net +4 damage), a final BAB of 19, a lot more hit points, and a fair number of bonus feats. I believe a splatbook has a feat that increases your size category for determining unarmed strike damage, so you could end up doing 2d6+4 with your fists. That, incidentally, gives the same average damage as a Monk 20. Overall, though, you'll be much better off.

axraelshelm
2007-01-13, 06:22 AM
i love fighting unarmed but with spells take levels in wizard for the many touch spell action there is or socerer/fighter combo for very accurate touch spell hits.

Matthew
2007-01-13, 07:50 AM
Power attack does work for unarmed strikes just fine, it would work fine with a normal gauntlet too, although not technically a spiked one.

Yes indeed. Contrary to popular belief, Power Attack specifically singles out Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons as working.



POWER ATTACK [General]
Prerequisite: Str 13.
Benefit: On your action, before making attack rolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#attackRoll) for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.
Special: If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#attackRoll). You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#unarmedStrike) or natural weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#naturalWeapons) attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#doubleWeapons) as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.) A fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/fighter.htm) may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.


Gauntlets also work beacuse the attack form is apparently an Unarmed Strike:



Gauntlet
This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#nonlethalDamage) with unarmed strikes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#unarmedStrike). A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.

Fizban
2007-01-14, 03:29 AM
Yeah, that's what I get for focusing on the whole no light weapons thing for so long, I completely forgot they made an exception for unarmed strikes.

Also, I forgot to mention the idea of giving an amulet of mighty fists other enhancements, since it's still having the same amount. So instead of an amulet of mighty fists +5, why not an amulet of mighty fists +1/fire/frost/shock/corrosive?

SpiderBrigade
2007-01-14, 09:53 AM
Re: Amulet of Mighty Fists +1/other enhancements, I think that could work fine - as long as you simultaneously disallow any other method of getting enhancement bonus on unarmed strikes. Otherwise you'll have someone with +5 gauntlets or whatever, and then lots of elemental damage or similar on the amulet, for a total of +20 worth of enhancements. And that's wrong.

But, if you take that precaution, I actually like the custom-amulet a lot. Because a monk isn't just using his fists. For non-monks, the magic gauntlets could work - maybe just rule that the two don't stack, at all.