I climb inside my Bag of Holding...

[Cruiser1]

The Bag of Holding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bagofHolding) says living creatures placed inside can live 10 minutes before suffocating. However I assume you can also climb inside a Bag yourself? And once inside, can you close the Bag from the inside, and later open it from the inside without relying on outside creatures to open/close it for you? Note a Portable Hole (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#portableHole) is slightly different, because it can be actually folded up from the outside - that seems like it would trap people inside the extradimensional space, who wouldn't be able to unfold it from inside?

A medium creature can easily fit inside a Bag of Holding. Even the smallest Type I contains 30 cubic feet, which is a cube of space over 3 feet on a side, easily enough to encompass a person curled up. A small creature should even be able to fit into the middle pocket of a Handy Haversack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#handyHaversack), which is 8 cubic feet or a cube 2 feet on a side.

Once inside a Bag of Holding, you're in an extradimensional space and not contributing to the weight of the Bag. That means others can carry you about, smuggle you into places without your auras being detected, and so on. They should even be able to teleport and bring you along for free, since you're not actually being teleported yourself. For example, find an Archon or fiend with self-only Greater Teleport at will, and you can hitch a ride. One limitation is that summoned monsters can't use any teleportation abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonMonsterI.htm), so you need a real "called" creature.

Given the above, it seems like you can easily get Greater Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportGreater.htm) at level 5: Any non-evil Cleric can use a level 3 spell slot to spontaneously cast the Sanctified spell Create Lantern Archon (CoV), to create a real non-summoned one, which will do one non-hazardous task for free. Therefore: Climb into your Bag of Holding. The Lantern Archon is instructed to go under a strap attached to the bag, so it can actually pick it up. (Lantern Archons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/archon.htm#lanternArchon) may be "balls of light" but aren't incorporeal. They only have STR 1, which means a heavy load is 10 lb, but you can still stagger around with up to twice your maximum load, and a Bag of Holding 1 is always 15 lbs so the Archon can definitely lift it.) Anyway, it Greater Teleports itself + 50 pounds of gear like all archons can to wherever you want to go. Climb out of the Bag after a round or two and you've successfully teleported. :smallbiggrin:

[ddude987]

Seems to work fine. In the end though it is up to your DM if they allow you to open/close it from the inside as there are no rules on the matter.

[bekeleven]

To answer the suffocation bit: RAW, bags of holding are somewhat dysfunctional since they apply 10 minutes as a hard and fast rule regardless of the number of occupants or their breathing statuses.

My method for getting around this was to cinch the bag loosely around their neck so the head was sticking out. Still obviates most of the weight and you have no breathing difficulties. Granted, looks a bit silly...

[FinnDarkblade]

My method for getting around this was to cinch the bag loosely around their neck so the head was sticking out. Still obviates most of the weight and you have no breathing difficulties. Granted, looks a bit silly...

So what if you combined that with the breathing through a straw trick? Have the person completely enclosed but some kind of small breathing tube going outside the bag?

[Crake]

The whole lantern archon thing doesn't work because while archons are limited to self +50lb, the teleport spell itself also puts a limit on up to maximum load, which for str 1 isn't enough to carry around a bag of holding as you said. Also, I would wonder how exactly a lantern archon would go about carrying a bag of holding, seeing as it lacks any limbs to grab things.

[Lord Vukodlak]

The whole lantern archon thing doesn't work because while archons are limited to self +50lb, the teleport spell itself also puts a limit on up to maximum load, which for str 1 isn't enough to carry around a bag of holding as you said. Also, I would wonder how exactly a lantern archon would go about carrying a bag of holding, seeing as it lacks any limbs to grab things.

Casting Bull's strength could give the lantern archon enough strength to carry the weight of up to a type II bag. That aside one could argue the 50lbs limit overrides the "maximum load" limit.

As to how it carries it without hands? It wedges it self underneath the bag then flies upward. The sack is then balanced over its body. You could also attach some time of spherical harness that would allow the archon to carry it like some weird ball pack.

Oh be careful crawling into a bag of holding there's an old dragon magazine story of a rogue who tried that... turned out to be a bag of devouring. He did manage to escape though ended up in Maryland.

[Isamu Dyson]

My method for getting around this was to cinch the bag loosely around their neck so the head was sticking out. Still obviates most of the weight and you have no breathing difficulties. Granted, looks a bit silly...

I'd be more concerned about the imminent decapitation.

[Zaida86]

Our group just has a hound archon as a party member, and he services as out "taxi" with the bag of holding. We all climb in he teleports, lets us out when we arrive, and its also good for transporting a party member who died and you need to hold onto til you can get them res'd, no time limit on that one :smallwink: We have never tried having someone stick their head outta the bag or use a straw, looking forward to seeing if the DM will allow us!

[Rijan_Sai]

I would assume that something like this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bottleofAir) would cover your standard "not suffocatiing" needs...I wonder how much trouble it would be to create a mask and harness for that, and make a kind of "SCAEBA" (Self Contained All Environmental Breathing Apparatus)? Is there any way to get rid of the banner on that site? It blocks the main link every time...

Unless there is one in some random splat book that I'm not aware of...

[MonochromeTiger]

I'd be more concerned about the imminent decapitation.

...that kind of reminds me of a trick my group did with a bag of devouring...

[lytokk]

42,000 for a breath mask of continuous air. Spell level 3 * caster level 7 * 2000 gp. The spell for the bottle is waterbreathing

seems a little expensive, except for the fact you can drop the bottle, but the mask is tied to your face. That is if my math is right. still getting used to figuring out how to make magic items but I think I'm right.

Seems like it should be cheaper since the item is taking up a slot instead of being a free floating item...

[unseenmage]

See my sig for applying the Squeezing rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm) to Portable Holes and Enveloping Pits.
Don't think I have numbers yet for Handy Haversacks and Bags of Holding.


Remember too that Plane Shift (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planeShift.htm) should let you escape a closed Portable Hole (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#portableHole) or Bag of Holding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bagofHolding).

Whether Plane Shift would let you get back into one is up to the DM. Though there is language in the DMG and the old Manual of the Planes which calls out extradimensional spaces as Demiplanes.


Additionally, I especially enjoy the trick of casting Energy Transformation Field (SC) into a Bag of Holding, then having my Golem reach in and continuously click an Immovable Rod (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#immovableRod) in the bag as he walks across the battlefield.
Winds up continuously casting whatever spell was linked to the Energy Transformation Field over and over and over and it can not target the Golem because ETF only targets living things.

Reverse Gravity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reverseGravity.htm) inside a Portable Hole is always funny too.

[Lord Vukodlak]

42,000 for a breath mask of continuous air. Spell level 3 * caster level 7 * 2000 gp. The spell for the bottle is waterbreathing

seems a little expensive, except for the fact you can drop the bottle, but the mask is tied to your face. That is if my math is right. still getting used to figuring out how to make magic items but I think I'm right.

Seems like it should be cheaper since the item is taking up a slot instead of being a free floating item...

OR a necklace of adaptation, if it lets you breathe underwater or in vacuum it should work in a bag of holding.

[Subaru Kujo]

42,000 for a breath mask of continuous air. Spell level 3 * caster level 7 * 2000 gp. The spell for the bottle is waterbreathing

seems a little expensive, except for the fact you can drop the bottle, but the mask is tied to your face. That is if my math is right. still getting used to figuring out how to make magic items but I think I'm right.

Seems like it should be cheaper since the item is taking up a slot instead of being a free floating item...

Iridescent Spindle Ioun stone should work as well, and only costs 18000gp. Granted, he needs food/water if he wants to make it a long term stay, but the air is the biggest worry.

[Phelix-Mu]

Alright, so I want to think this through logically.

1.) On the outside, it's a bag. While the bag isn't terribly well described, it's assumedly a bag that is smaller that what it's internal volume would indicate (otherwise it's not a useful item). As an exaggerated example, the interior space may be capable of holding an elephant, but the outside of the bag will be smaller than the a normal bag capable of holding an elephant.

2.) The entrance to the bag, the opening, is limited by the actual size of the bag (2' by 4'...this appears to allow an opening less than 15" across). The item description is terribly vague, but this is logically the case.

3.) Even if a person could fit in the space within the bag, there is no guarantee that the opening to the bag will allow a person entry (or, if the person can get in, that it is practical to do so...a person can also take a bath in a kitchen sink, but that is going to be crazy awkward).

So, I'm far from saying it's straight up impossible, but I'm not sure how solid the RAW is backing up, say, the fighter in full plate crawling inside his bag of holding.

Also, I don't think you can teleport inside the bag. How is this being done? Plane shift, yes, but the space inside the bag is not a "place" in the normal sense of the word. I tried this some time ago, and arrived at the plane shift solution, so I'm wondering if the rest of you figured out a way to manage it with the RAW for teleport.

[Cirrylius]

He did manage to escape though ended up in Maryland.
Not to the Jersey turnpike?

[Cruiser1]

Casting Bull's strength could give the lantern archon enough strength to carry the weight of up to a type II bag. That aside one could argue the 50lbs limit overrides the "maximum load" limit.
My understanding is the 50 lb limit does replace the maximum load limit. The Teleport (Su) ability of archons says, "Archons can use greater teleport at will, as the spell (caster level 14th), except that the creature can transport only itself and up to 50 pounds of objects." That mans it works like Greater Teleport except where stated differently. (See how Polymorph Any Object is like Polymorph except where stated differently for another place where this concept comes up.) The different or replaced parts are it's self-only (instead of a number of passengers based on CL) and it's 50 pounds of objects (instead of maximum load).

2.) The entrance to the bag, the opening, is limited by the actual size of the bag (2' by 4'...this appears to allow an opening less than 15" across). The item description is terribly vague, but this is logically the case.
15 inches is assuming the opening of the Bag is a slit across the 2 foot edge. If the opening of the Bag is a slit across the 4 foot edge, then the opening can be expanded into a circle greater than 8/pi = 2.5 feet in diameter, which is enough for most anybody to fit through. If the opening is a slit from corner to opposite corner across the 2x4' canvas (4.47 feet across) then it opens into a circle nearly 3 feet in diameter.

[AlltheBooks]

Some of you hit on the issue. Depends what the DM rules concerning the dimensions of the bag.

So many players over the years have simply assumed they(or something similar in dimension) can just waltz into the bag. So I made a random sack table. No not that kind of sack. Or that. The other.

Clears that right up. Or allows shenanigans of it's the potato sack variety. Inevitably catgirls get hurt.

[koboldish]

On the subject of a 2' by 4' bag, has anyone actually seen a bag like that with no depth at all? It would be like a plastic one from modern times. I would assume it has at least a few inches of depth, and that it's not a perfect rectangle. I would have to do some more research, but I believe the opening would be a bit bigger.

[Phelix-Mu]

On the subject of a 2' by 4' bag, has anyone actually seen a bag like that with no depth at all? It would be like a plastic one from modern times. I would assume it has at least a few inches of depth, and that it's not a perfect rectangle. I would have to do some more research, but I believe the opening would be a bit bigger.

My assumption was that the 2'x4' is the bag laid out flat. The problem is that this makes the opening deceptively large: the actual opening will end up being some kind of oval or circle. According to math earlier in the thread, if the circular opening is on the 2' side, it's a roughly 1.2' diameter opening. If it's in the 4' side, it's roughly 2.5' diameter. The description really doesn't say which side the opening is on, but it's my experience that most bags are deeper from top-to-bottom than wide from side-to-side (which only explains my initial assumption). DM-ruling territory (or the pc's if the pc is crafting the bag from scratch).

[Darkranger85]

I'm very new to DnD in general, but in thumbing through the spells and such, wasn't there a spell that fills your lungs with air?

Not sure if that would help or not.

[Cruiser1]

According to math earlier in the thread, if the circular opening is on the 2' side, it's a roughly 1.2' diameter opening.
Yes, assuming the smaller 2' slit, the opening is a little over 1.27 feet or 1 foot 3 inches across. That's easily enough for most medium creatures to get through, although a 350 pound Goliath in plate (or any Large size creature) is going to want to use the more expensive Portable Hole instead. Note the best shape to hold the bag in for a human isn't a perfectly circular opening, but rather an oval which will be slightly wider along one axis in order to get their shoulders through. Note that technically a DC 30 Escape Artist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/escapeArtist.htm) check is enough to get anybody through any opening if just their head fits (which isn't very realistic, but that's RAW for you). :smalltongue:

I'm very new to DnD in general, but in thumbing through the spells and such, wasn't there a spell that fills your lungs with air?
Yes, the spell Deep Breath (SC) keeps your lungs filled with air, which is useful for underwater or airless environments. As a Conjuration (Creation) spell, it can be simulated with Shadow Conjuration if you didn't think to prepare it directly.

[Rogue Shadows]

(which isn't very realistic, but that's RAW for you).

DC 30 is significantly beyond what I'd expect most people on Earth can hit even with a natural 20, anyway, unless they've built themselves towards it. Someone who has even-odds of hitting a DC 30 Escape Artist check (can take 10 to hit it) is a professional contortionist, or at least could make a living at being one.

[unseenmage]

DC 30 is significantly beyond what I'd expect most people on Earth can hit even with a natural 20, anyway, unless they've built themselves towards it. Someone who has even-odds of hitting a DC 30 Escape Artist check (can take 10 to hit it) is a professional contortionist, or at least could make a living at being one.

Or has a +10 and Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a).

[Rogue Shadows]

Or has a +10 and Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a).

Which is magic, and so significantly beyond what your average human being on Earth could reach, unless the Vatican is hiding something about its clergy beyond the usual insert-cliche-about-choir-boys-here. If the DMG is any guide than the overwhelming majority of us are level 1 commoners with 10 or 11 in everything. Our options are pretty much: 2 cross-class skill ranks, Agile, and Skill Focus (Escape Artist), for a total of +7. Some of us can swing up to an 18 in Dexterity, which gets you up to +11.

[Rijan_Sai]

Just because no one has mentioned it yet, I present The Original Bag of Holding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3-LZx8NF8k) (starts about 25s mark).

Actually, that bag may be a little smaller then the BoH is described (2'x4'), but it's a good place to start.

[Chronos]

A 2' slit is plenty for a typical human to fit through. That's a circumference of 48 inches. A typical waistline is 30-something inches. OK, add a little more for arms, but there's still plenty of room there.