Shifters... why?

[Dr. Cliché]

I recently came across the Shifter and Were-touched master race and class (respectively), however, I'm struggling to see the appeal of either (in a purely mechanical sense).

The shifter semi-transformation thing seemed interesting... until I read that you're only allowed to do it once per day... and you're lucky if it even lasts a minute. I know you can get shifter feats to increase the duration and times per day you can use it, but it seems like you just won't get enough feats to use it most of the time (unless you rest after every 4 encounters).

I guess it serves as a convenient entry to Warshaper, but that's the only thing I can think of.

Weretouched Master seems even more perplexing, because you're devoting 5 class levels to improve your shifting powers and stats... which you can still only use a few times a day. :smallconfused:

Basically, do the Shifter/Were-Touched Master have some appeal that I'm missing?

[eggynack]

Shifter druids are pretty amazing. They get simultaneous access to one of their best ACF's (shifter druid substitution levels), and one of their best PrC's (moonspeaker). It's a pretty sweet deal in general. Also, shifter stuff can be used in a wild shape, so it works out pretty well.

Edit: Also, a couple of shifter related spells. I think the best is wild instincts, which gives you a +1 to spot and listen while it's prepared, which increases to +2 if you're a shifter, out of a 2nd level slot. Long duration low level spells are neat.

[Amphetryon]

I recently came across the Shifter and Were-touched master race and class (respectively), however, I'm struggling to see the appeal of either (in a purely mechanical sense).

The shifter semi-transformation thing seemed interesting... until I read that you're only allowed to do it once per day... and you're lucky if it even lasts a minute. I know you can get shifter feats to increase the duration and times per day you can use it, but it seems like you just won't get enough feats to use it most of the time (unless you rest after every 4 encounters).

I guess it serves as a convenient entry to Warshaper, but that's the only thing I can think of.

Weretouched Master seems even more perplexing, because you're devoting 5 class levels to improve your shifting powers and stats... which you can still only use a few times a day. :smallconfused:

Basically, do the Shifter/Were-Touched Master have some appeal that I'm missing?
An ability that you can only use "a few times a day" is an ability that you can use in the majority of the presumptive combats you'll have in a day. 3.X presumes you'll have 4 - 5 encounters a day, but never requires that all of those encounters are combat-based or will need the PCs to use even a majority of their resources in any single combat. There's little reason to think that a Shifter/Were-Touched Master would find himself unable to use his best shifting powers in the vast majority of the fights where it would be useful, unless the game your DM runs (or you run as DM) differs substantially from the defaults of the DMG.

[Vhaidara]

I'm currently in a campaign with a shifter barbarian, and he combos beasthide elite (beasthide = +2 CON, elite makes for +4AC) with rage. Since shifts have duration based off of CON, by shiftraging, he get 3 extra rounds on each, the beasthide counters out the rage AC penalty.

He also has Extra Shifter Trait (Longtooth), giving him a bite, and plans to take the raging shifter feat at 6 that ups his bite's size category by 2 and doubles the crit range.

It isn't a high power group, but it has it's combos.

[Vortenger]

Furries. 'Nuff said.

edit: If you playe Eberron, they actually have good flavor, add to that they make fantastic Bloodclaw Masters (ToB), Moonspeakers, and are the basis of Woverine in DnD (maybe feral human, but most DM's don't like OP +1 LA templates). Don't believe me? Look at the art in the ECS book again. Moreover, were-touched master (pre-errata) was a pretty solid melee class. Not up to ubercharging or martial initiatior standards, but what else is?

[Zombulian]

Shifter Ferocity and many of the Elite feats for Shifters are incredibly useful for Barbarians. There are tons of cool ACF's for shifters out there. You get the shapeshifting subtype so you can get into Warshaper.

Shifters are pretty great.

[Isamu Dyson]

Furries. 'Nuff said.

You beat me to it.

[Fax Celestis]

Shifting is a free action, not a move or standard, so you can do it any time on your turn.

Load up on [Shifter] feats. Not only do they improve your shifting abilities, they also are beholden to the following clause:

As a secondary effect, the duration of your shifting racial ability increases by 2 rounds. Additionally, for each 2 Shifter feats you have, you receive one additional daily use of your racial shifting ability.

Read this section in the Shifter Handbook: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12352401&postcount=5

A shifter barbarian/totemist/totem rager with Shifter Savager and Shifter Multiattack is a thing of terror and beauty.

[tyckspoon]

Pre-errata Were-Touched Master is pretty awesome; it basically included the effects of a Bite of the Were-Critter spell into your shifting, which buffs your shift from 'Wait, why did I bother with this race again?' to 'Imma rip your throat out now, ok.' (Bear-Touched master got a whopping +18 Strength, Tiger-Touched would get +14 and Pounce along with a decent Dex and Con boost.) Post errata.. not so good. Maybe take it up to 3 for Pounce from Tiger-heritage and a bonus Shifter feat, but since they gutted the level 5 capstone (5 levels to Polymorph into something of half your CR? Yeah, that's.. not good) it's not worth spending that many levels on improving Shifting. Go into Warshaper or Bloodclaw Master instead.

[Talionis]

Shifting is a free action, not a move or standard, so you can do it any time on your turn.

Load up on [Shifter] feats. Not only do they improve your shifting abilities, they also are beholden to the following clause:


Read this section in the Shifter Handbook: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12352401&postcount=5

A shifter barbarian/totemist/totem rager with Shifter Savager and Shifter Multiattack is a thing of terror and beauty.

Loading up on shifter feats is really easy in an E6 campaign where you get more feats. It is especially good in E6 where power levels are a little lower/ better balanced.

[Big Fau]

The daily use limitation is a hindrance at the lowest levels, but towards the mid-levels it becomes useable during multiple encounters. The low duration isn't an issue: If you're encounter lasted longer than Con mod+3 rounds you are either fighting a losing battle or haven't built your character properly. Most encounters last for 3-5 rounds at levels other than 1st, so the duration is long enough to matter.

The bonuses are actually decent too, and it's a way to emulate a Lycanthrope without eating a horrendous level adjustment.

[Dr. Cliché]

Thanks for all the responses, guys.

You've sold me on shifters to the point where I now want to play one. :smallbiggrin:

[Chronos]

I guess it serves as a convenient entry to Warshaper, but that's the only thing I can think of.
It qualifies you for Warshaper, but at the same time removes any reason to take the class, since all of the abilities from Warshaper only apply when you're in a form other than your natural form. I don't think shifting actually changes your form, and even if it does, you're still subject to the uses-per-day limitation. Changelings, on the other hand, can both qualify for and use Warshaper easily.

And while shifter feats can increase your uses-per-day, doesn't that seriously constrain your feat selection?

[Fax Celestis]

It qualifies you for Warshaper, but at the same time removes any reason to take the class, since all of the abilities from Warshaper only apply when you're in a form other than your natural form. I don't think shifting actually changes your form, and even if it does, you're still subject to the uses-per-day limitation. Changelings, on the other hand, can both qualify for and use Warshaper easily.

And while shifter feats can increase your uses-per-day, doesn't that seriously constrain your feat selection?

Not really. A lot of them are really good, a couple of them are "counts as" feats, and more than a few of them are literally the original feat, but "add the [Shifter] tag".

[Dr. Cliché]

It qualifies you for Warshaper, but at the same time removes any reason to take the class, since all of the abilities from Warshaper only apply when you're in a form other than your natural form. I don't think shifting actually changes your form, and even if it does, you're still subject to the uses-per-day limitation. Changelings, on the other hand, can both qualify for and use Warshaper easily.

And while shifter feats can increase your uses-per-day, doesn't that seriously constrain your feat selection?

Damn - I missed the part where warshaper abilities only apply when you're in a different form. Well, that's one character idea down the toilet then. :smallfrown:

[Fouredged Sword]

You can bypass the warshaper restriction by taking a level of Psion (egoist) to pick up the changling minor shape shift ability for any race. It's a web expansion ACF.

[Coidzor]

You can bypass the warshaper restriction by taking a level of Psion (egoist) to pick up the changling minor shape shift ability for any race. It's a web expansion ACF.

Anyone recall which one?

[Kuulvheysoon]

Loading up on shifter feats is really easy in an E6 campaign where you get more feats. It is especially good in E6 where power levels are a little lower/ better balanced.

Shifters are one of my favorite E6 races for this reason.


Not really. A lot of them are really good, a couple of them are "counts as" feats, and more than a few of them are literally the original feat, but "add the [Shifter] tag".

Case in Point - Shifter Multiattack.

[Fax Celestis]

Case in Point - Shifter Multiattack.

And Improved Natural Attack.

[Coidzor]

Case in Point - Shifter Multiattack.

Does Shift Multiattack qualify one for Improved Multiattack?

[Fax Celestis]

Technically, no, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't.

[eastmabl]

This is also full of fun and win:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225294