I don't understand Lucid Dreaming.

[killem2]

Is this a skill that you use while you sleep? If so, If I want to pull a creature into the Dreamheart do they also have to be asleep, and I also have to successfully depart from my own dreamscape into theirs?


What if they aren't asleep, do I know when they sleep?

This skill has got to be the weirdest I've seen with almost little to no info about it.

For Reference:
http://dndtools.eu/skills/lucid-dreaming/

[herrhauptmann]

Is this a skill that you use while you sleep? If so, If I want to pull a creature into the Dreamheart do they also have to be asleep, and I also have to successfully depart from my own dreamscape into theirs?


What if they aren't asleep, do I know when they sleep?

This skill has got to be the weirdest I've seen with almost little to no info about it.

For Reference:
I don'tknow if it gets gitp or that other site in legal trouble if we link it. I know it did with crystal keep links...
I'm pretty sure the writer was reading Neil Gaimans Sandman when he came up with that.

Imagine each person creates a tiny demiplane when they're dreaming. As soon as they wake up, this demiplane goes away.
All these demiplanes are right next to each other without any overlap. Commoner 1 alongside Wizard30.

Just like in real life, there's a chance you realize you're dreaming (DC 5). Then you can start to alter your dreams, DC15 or higher.
You can enter the dreams of another person. Obviously that person has to be asleep and dreaming too. Maybe dream-you says "I'm going to enter the dreams of King Bob." and the Dm determines if King Bob is currently asleep or awake, warded or not (may affect the DC). Let's assume unwarded, and asleep. You make your DC15, and you enter the kings dream.

There's probably spells that let you know when someone dreams. A simple divination would do the trick. As would drugging King Bob to sleep like in Inception.

Now you tackle his dreamself while in his dream, and try to take it to the dreamheart. (The heart of dreams. The palace of the Sandman.) If you make your DC25 check, you both go to the dreamheart. If you fail, you're still grappling, and he may attempt to escape the grapple as normal, or maybe pin you.

There's probably more info in Manual of the Planes about Lucid Dreaming. Probably in the section about the Dreamheart itself, rather than in the skill section of the book.

[Phelix-Mu]

The only ramification of Dreamheart that I see for Lucid Dreaming is that dreamers that die in Dreamheart have their physical body die as well.

I do love this skill. Don't particularly love the execution, but there's random splatbook introduction for you. The whole thing suffers from
1.) 3.0
2.) Not picked up in later supplements
3.) Not given a very formal treatment in the source itself...it's a sidebar.

[killem2]

So, do people I drag to dream heart, take the 25 points of damage a round?

[Metahuman1]

So, 2 questions about this skill that I'm kicking around.

1: If I drag someone to the Dreamscape successfully, can I then drag them back to my own little dream demiplane so that I need not contend with "Oh, if you die you die for real!"

If so, what happens when I wake up, do they just wake up two with me?

2: Let's say I go to Jane Doe's dream and she's having a nightmare, let's say a about being burned at the stake cause, stupid prejudiced peoples in a village.

What happens if I enter her dream, and try to fight off her in dream attackers? Do I just treat it as a normal encounter or do I have to treat it as "Oh, and if you die you die for real?" Or is it an outright unwinnable fight?

[Scow2]

I figure it's you get to change her dream! The ramifications of dreaming change based on the campaign - you probably don't die for real, just wake up.

I figure if you pull someone else to your dreamscape and then close it, they go back to theirs... and when they wake up, say "I just had the wierdest dream..."

[Alleran]

I look at it as a skill representing Aiel Dreamwalkers in the Wheel of Time series, complete with the Dreamheart as a very harsh Tel'aran'rhiod.

[Metahuman1]

I figure it's you get to change her dream! The ramifications of dreaming change based on the campaign - you probably don't die for real, just wake up.

I figure if you pull someone else to your dreamscape and then close it, they go back to theirs... and when they wake up, say "I just had the wierdest dream..."

Or in my case say "Feel better?".

Context.

I'm in a game were I'm playing this muscle bound amazon swordswoman using a homebrew half dragon template, some Warblade and Crusader Levels, and a 2 lvl dip into barbarian for Improved Trip + Pounce and a 1 lvl dip into wizard to get around making UMD checks with certain Items I like and to get Abrupt Jaunt, as well as 1 level of Exotic Weapons Master to get x2 str mod with my bastard sword attacks.

One of the members of my party is a Tiefling with 1 level of rogue and the rest of her levels in Shadow Caster who's very much my characters opposite in a lot of respects. I'm in your face, she's all about timid, My answer to danger is bash heads, her answer is to take cover and let it pass her buy. I'm a towering Muscle bound amazon, she's a Petite little doll. And my characters taken a shine to her.

The Tiefling in question has a long standing problem with Nightmares due to bad stuff from her past, and given that in and out of character I've grown partial too her, I kinda wanna see if my character can offer releife. My plan is next level up to sink some ranks in Lucid Dreaming, and then to turn around and start coming to her dreams to get her out of having a Nightmare every night. From there, if the character/player are interested, I might "Instruct her" in how to alter her dreams, which would mean the player would need to be willing to sink a couple of ranks into the skill, but that's the other players choice. I'm just trying to put the option on the table in character.

[Phelix-Mu]

I think you could use the "change aspect of another's dreamscape" creatively to rescue the tiefling in her own dreamscape. I'm unclear about the ramification of removing a dreamer from their native dreamscape (it surely destroys their original dreamscape).

I'd also note

1.) This is all variant cosmology stuff. By default, it doesn't exist in the normal DMG cosmology, so you really need DM approval to use any of this.

2.) There is tons of vagueness about how dream works. This leaves room for the DM to interpret things as they wish.

3.) The magic chapter in Heroes of Horror also introduces oneiromancy (dream magic), which dovetails in some particularly powerful ways with this.

As a skilled lucid dreamer irl myself, I kind of wish they'd come out with more material supporting uses of this skill, but it is connected to an obscure variant, so I guess I can't hope for too much.

[Sith_Happens]

As a skilled lucid dreamer irl myself

I used to be pretty good when I was younger, but it eventually just kind stopped working most of the time, which makes me sad.:smallfrown:

[Metahuman1]

I think you could use the "change aspect of another's dreamscape" creatively to rescue the tiefling in her own dreamscape. I'm unclear about the ramification of removing a dreamer from their native dreamscape (it surely destroys their original dreamscape).

I'd also note

1.) This is all variant cosmology stuff. By default, it doesn't exist in the normal DMG cosmology, so you really need DM approval to use any of this.

2.) There is tons of vagueness about how dream works. This leaves room for the DM to interpret things as they wish.

3.) The magic chapter in Heroes of Horror also introduces oneiromancy (dream magic), which dovetails in some particularly powerful ways with this.

As a skilled lucid dreamer irl myself, I kind of wish they'd come out with more material supporting uses of this skill, but it is connected to an obscure variant, so I guess I can't hope for too much.

I'm not worried about DM approval, he'll probably like that it's character motivated and that I'm investing resources in it just cause it's good RP and not mechanically optimal. I'm willing to do the investment cause I know I've got the resources to spar as I'm fairly confident my character can solo anything correctly CR'd for 10 with out dieing. The only hang up might be the other player, but again, since it's character motivated, I don't think they'll mind, more so since I'm leaning toward building off of it for my character to give her some "training" to help build up her confidence/participation levels in combat.

Mechanically that would likely look at a one, at most two, level dip into a very Shadow Hand Heavy unarmed swordsage who might also have some Diamond Mind Maneuvers. MAYBE some Setting Sun stuff if I can find a none intensive way to get her to trip well with out having to focus on Size/Strength since those are counter to what she wanted to focus on with this character. And a few ranks in Lucid Dreaming of her own so she can in character make the checks to not have to deal with nightmares anymore.

I actually wouldn't mind letting my character dip swordsage, but alas, if I'm gonna get 9th level maneuvers, which I REALLY want, I can't loose any more class levels unless I can find something that would just straight up let me recover the 1 lost initiator level from dipping out again.