Is the Mitd a non-d&d creature?

[CaDzilla]

How do we know that the Monster in the darkness is a d&d creature?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

How do we know that the Monster in the darkness is a d&d creature?

We don't (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293047). (See 4c, second question from the end)

Grey Wolf

[SavageWombat]

Honestly, we need more suggestions of non-D&D possibilities. But no one seems to come up with very many.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Honestly, we need more suggestions of non-D&D possibilities. But no one seems to come up with very many.

Problem: copyright. Anything after Mickey (i.e. pretty much everything not already stat'ed in D&D) is tricky to discuss when we aren't allowed to discuss the law.

GW

[DaggerPen]

Basically. D&D stats just about every non-copyright they can justify in one setting or another - those they haven't seized are usually either copyrighted or fairly uninteresting. Plus, teleporting is more of a modern concept, so we'd need a non-D&D creature that could conceivably teleport V and O-Chul to freedom, isn't copyrighted, and that either hasn't been statted in D&D or whose stats are obscure enough that Rich could have just not known the creature was ever statted. That's not a lot of creatures, which is why I'm betting that the MitD is probably a D&D monster.

[BaronOfHell]

Plus, teleporting is more of a modern concept, so we'd need a non-D&D creature that could conceivably teleport V and O-Chul to freedom

I always interpreted that scene as the MitD required them to be safe and the teleportation action was how the "cosmos" decided to go about it.

[DaggerPen]

Creatures that can grant wishes are a much older concept and could work for our purposes, but the ones that are strong and ugly, aren't copyrighted, and that haven't been adapted into D&D already? Not terribly common.

[Timix]

I always interpreted that scene as the MitD required them to be safe and the teleportation action was how the "cosmos" decided to go about it.

I agree. It could've been a Wish spell or something like that.

[SavageWombat]

Problem: copyright. Anything after Mickey (i.e. pretty much everything not already stat'ed in D&D) is tricky to discuss when we aren't allowed to discuss the law.

GW

I know - I'm thinking more of legends and stuff. D&D still hasn't statted every monster ever told in song and story.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I know - I'm thinking more of legends and stuff. D&D still hasn't statted every monster ever told in song and story.

I used to believe that. Then the MitD thread disabused me of that notion. (Edit: to be clear, I'm partially kidding. I know WotC hasn't stat'ed everything. But they are pretty damn close (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Zn6gV2sdl38#t=48)).

As DaggerPen said, WotC has been busily stat'ing every public domain creature they could find, and wish-givers were likely amongst the first, given how iconic those are.

GW

[BaronOfHell]

But even if they had statted everything, isn't it similar to say they'd colored a set of, say, 3 balls, where each ball represent a unique monster. Still there could potentially be an infinite variety of balls by combining any amount.

At least I always imagined that people who're well versed in D&D monsters would quickly have been able to figure out what the MitD was, unless it was some kind of a couple of level of crossbreeds. Essentially making it possible to guess, but very difficult and hints are required.

It's a bit difficult to tell what's a hint and what's a joke sometimes. The MitD's father was larger than it and ate a lot. Then there's the whole can't see gate things, but the only creatures we're familiar with who has a black out in regard to the rifts are the Gods, so MitD could be descendant from a creature serving Gods, or it could just be a joke. To me, though I don't have much clue, a large, eating a lot, animal for a father does not sound like something connected to the divine, but the parents could be crossbreeds as well (I'd think so). IIRC, the MitD wasn't supposed to be able to talk according to Red Cloak, which also hints that the MitD is something very unique. More intelligent, yet smaller, than his father (I'd guess).

Also there's the possibility of class levels, though I've no idea how that functions.

So it's my impression that the components that the MitD consists of can be in official manuals, and when the umbrella is lifted, it may indeed be very obvious what it is, but that doesn't prevent it from being very very difficult to guess.

Maybe, even given the amount of clues we've got, it's not possible to uniquely identify the MitD yet.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

IIRC, the MitD wasn't supposed to be able to talk according to Red Cloak,

Not quite. See Section 2b:Speech (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293047). Also, that thread is probably better to discuss the MitD clues & interpretations thereof. The mods dislike having two threads on the same topic.

GW

[Jay R]

OK, we've considered non-copyrighted monsters and D&D monsters. Has anybody considered modern copyrighted monsters whose author might have given Rich permission?

[JessmanCA]

Couldn't he be a genie?

[SavageWombat]

OK, we've considered non-copyrighted monsters and D&D monsters. Has anybody considered modern copyrighted monsters whose author might have given Rich permission?

Yes, but it's still hard to find a fit AND they just aren't comfortable speculating too hard on "might".

[jere7my]

I thought everyone had agreed that it was the heavily templated creature Rich described for Roger Moore's contest in Dragon 175. That is, the:

Subtropical Amphibious Crimson Displacer Shrieking Transparent Fomorian Groaning Aboriginal Lamia Heavy War Gelatinous elder Dun Berserker Blood Sea Heucuva Huecuva Guardian One-Eyed One-Horned Flying Purple People-Eating Astral Ixitxachitl Shambling Vampiric Beholder Rust Poisonous Slithering Volcanic Storm Tri-Flower Flumph Thessal Spitting Cockatrice Paisley Super-Genius Abjurer Blink Faerie Throat Leech Rotting Teenage Mutant Ninja Ju-Ju Republican Charioteering Interposing Glaive-Guisarme All-Beef Patty Special Sauce Lettuce Cheese Pickles Onion on a Sesame-Seed Bun Goblinoid Fire-Retardant Anchovy Death Great Wyrm Myopic Megalo Giant Space Hamster of Fear and Flame.

:smallbiggrin:

[Cirin]

I agree. It could've been a Wish spell or something like that.

I think prior dialogue indicates that it was a Wish/Miracle effect.

The MitD is a child of his kind, or at least was not well educated as to what his own kind is like.

This dialogue from comic 543 seems to indicate that the MitD believes he can grant Wishes, like it's an innate ability of his that he knows he has, but can't harness.

:mitd: "Poor Mr. Stiffly! I hoped really, really hard and he still didn't escape. I don't know why it didn't work."

Tsukiko: "Yeah, gee. I don't know why wanting it wasn't enough to make it happen."

:mitd: "Me neither!"

Frankly, the best speculation I've ever heard for the MitD (and what I expect him to be) is that he is. . .

A Zodar.

It's an obscure monster from Spelljammer (a 2nd Edition AD&D setting).

They are nigh invulnerable, super strong humanoid creatures (in the sense of being roughly human sized and shaped, not the 3.x creature type), have a sort of grotesque beauty (basically super-muscular humanoids under jet black armor, with the onlv visible thing being glowing eyes beneath the armor).

They normally can't talk (or more specifically can only speak a few times EVER), but when the MitD is first encountered in Start of Darkness, it is noted by the Big Game Hunters that find him (and apparently realize what he is) that it's EXTREMELY unusual for his kind to talk freely. It's also extremely unusual to find one in a jungle (they are normally found in deep space).

Also. . .three times ever, a Zodar can perform Limited Wish as a spell-like ability, so if they really, REALLY want something they can make their wishes come true (to an extent) three times ever. I believe that the MitD doesn't know how to consciously do it, but knows he should be able to do it, and used one of his times-ever Limited Wishes to teleport O'Chul and Varsuuvus away. Since it was a Limited Wish, he didn't have to know a target, and just wished for their safe escape.

The 3e version of them doesn't fit, it makes it into some Construct and really doesn't fit the MitD in more ways, but the original 2e description is dead on.

[marq]

Frankly, the best speculation I've ever heard for the MitD (and what I expect him to be) is that he is. . .


Stuff like that makes sense, but I still feel like, with everything else Rich does with this comic, it's going to wind up being a critique of SOMETHING.

Miko critiqued the way gamers played paladins.
Tarquin critiqued the way that some forum posters thought the story should go.
I'm still betting the world in the rift critiques something too.

I'd be pretty shocked if the MitD DIDN'T critique something about the D&D world.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

OK, we've considered non-copyrighted monsters and D&D monsters. Has anybody considered modern copyrighted monsters whose author might have given Rich permission?

Yes, we have. See 3a - Carbosilicate amorph (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15640989&postcount=3)


Couldn't he be a genie?

Not strong enough. See 3d - Genie/Djinn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15640989&postcount=3)


A Zodar.
Doesn't fit the circus scene. See 3d - Zodar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15640989&postcount=3)

GW

[JessmanCA]

Not strong enough. See 3d - Genie/Djinn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15640989&postcount=3)



Nono, a non-d&d genie, like in Disney's Aladdin. Those genies were mega powerful AND the Jaffar genie was pretty darn ugly.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Nono, a non-d&d genie, like in Disney's Aladdin. Those genies were mega powerful AND the Jaffar genie was pretty darn ugly.

Every creature that is stat'ed that has appeared in the comic has followed the last version stat'ed of said creature. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that MitD, created back when the comic was even more D&D-centric, would use the mythological version of a creature, rather than the D&D one or, worse, as you suggest, the copyrighted by Disney version.

GW

[JessmanCA]

or, worse, as you suggest, the copyrighted by Disney version.

GW

Maybe that's why his identity can't be revealed ;)

Also this IS the non-d&d thread, i'm just throwing out another suggestion.

Assuming Rich could use a relative of the genie from Disney's Aladdin, it's not such a bad suggestion. It would explain a lot of things in my opinion. including the monster's personality which is very Disney.

[Griffincat]

He could be Rumpelstiltsken (or a descendant thereof).

Powerful magic (straw into gold, at least).
Ability to cause earthquakes with stamping his feet (that's how Rumpelstiltsken disappears at the end of the fable).
Described as ugly, yet speaks the common tongue.
Demands payment of a child (MItD won't eat them but Xykon thinks he should).

And, of course, the whole hidden name thing of the fable.

[ti'esar]

I'd be very surprised if the MitD is not a D&D creature.

[SavageWombat]

He could be Rumpelstiltsken (or a descendant thereof).

Powerful magic (straw into gold, at least).
Ability to cause earthquakes with stamping his feet (that's how Rumpelstiltsken disappears at the end of the fable).
Described as ugly, yet speaks the common tongue.
Demands payment of a child (MItD won't eat them but Xykon thinks he should).

And, of course, the whole hidden name thing of the fable.

Clever! But no-one would be surprised that he could talk.

[Seto]

Copyright, sure, but...

Isn't parody protected speech ? :smallbiggrin: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html)

[ChristianSt]

He could be Rumpelstiltsken (or a descendant thereof).

Powerful magic (straw into gold, at least).
Ability to cause earthquakes with stamping his feet (that's how Rumpelstiltsken disappears at the end of the fable).
Described as ugly, yet speaks the common tongue.
Demands payment of a child (MItD won't eat them but Xykon thinks he should).

And, of course, the whole hidden name thing of the fable.


Clever! But no-one would be surprised that he could talk.

So the wizard in the circus hasn't seen anything like an old gnome? Seems like a stretch to me.

[Throknor]

Copyright, sure, but...

Isn't parody protected speech ? :smallbiggrin: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html)
It's a two hundred year old fairy tale. So he would be safe, though any recent facets added could be an issue.

But it fails two simple tests and is right out.

And this thread has I think reached the point of being a duplicate thread.

[lio45]

I thought everyone had agreed that it was the heavily templated creature Rich described for Roger Moore's contest in Dragon 175. That is, the:

Subtropical Amphibious Crimson Displacer Shrieking Transparent Fomorian Groaning Aboriginal Lamia Heavy War Gelatinous elder Dun Berserker Blood Sea Heucuva Huecuva Guardian One-Eyed One-Horned Flying Purple People-Eating Astral Ixitxachitl Shambling Vampiric Beholder Rust Poisonous Slithering Volcanic Storm Tri-Flower Flumph Thessal Spitting Cockatrice Paisley Super-Genius Abjurer Blink Faerie Throat Leech Rotting Teenage Mutant Ninja Ju-Ju Republican Charioteering Interposing Glaive-Guisarme All-Beef Patty Special Sauce Lettuce Cheese Pickles Onion on a Sesame-Seed Bun Goblinoid Fire-Retardant Anchovy Death Great Wyrm Myopic Megalo Giant Space Hamster of Fear and Flame.

:smallbiggrin:

LOL! Thanks for sharing! :)

It would be awesome to see this turn out to be MitD!

[Trillium]

I thought everyone had agreed that it was the heavily templated creature Rich described for Roger Moore's contest in Dragon 175. That is, the:

Subtropical Amphibious Crimson Displacer Shrieking Transparent Fomorian Groaning Aboriginal Lamia Heavy War Gelatinous elder Dun Berserker Blood Sea Heucuva Huecuva Guardian One-Eyed One-Horned Flying Purple People-Eating Astral Ixitxachitl Shambling Vampiric Beholder Rust Poisonous Slithering Volcanic Storm Tri-Flower Flumph Thessal Spitting Cockatrice Paisley Super-Genius Abjurer Blink Faerie Throat Leech Rotting Teenage Mutant Ninja Ju-Ju Republican Charioteering Interposing Glaive-Guisarme All-Beef Patty Special Sauce Lettuce Cheese Pickles Onion on a Sesame-Seed Bun Goblinoid Fire-Retardant Anchovy Death Great Wyrm Myopic Megalo Giant Space Hamster of Fear and Flame.

:smallbiggrin:

One-eyed? Now that's doesn't fit MitD in the slightest!

[Throknor]

One-eyed? Now that's doesn't fit MitD in the slightest!

That's what's kept me from putting out the Purple People Eater.

[Sir_Leorik]

Maybe this thread should be folded into the main "MitD Discussion" thread?

[BaronOfHell]

One-eyed? Now that's doesn't fit MitD in the slightest!

The way I see it, the MitD can have from 0 - infinite eyes.

Or have the two yellow lights we see from him being identified as eyes in comic? I imagine it could also be something similar to an anglerfish..

[allenw]

One-eyed? Now that's doesn't fit MitD in the slightest!

Tack on "Two-Headed" and we're good to go. :smallbiggrin:

[invinible]

My guess is he is of the type of copyrighted non-DnD creature that is the author's favourite type that he didn't get permission to use while ignoring all features that make the creature type unique by bashing together the positive outliers of the members of that creature type and the bar minimum for out much the MitD is capable of to show how DMs usually use such favourites in their respective games.

[Seeen]

I thought the Giant explicitly stated MitD is in one of the monster manuals? Or at least not a creature he made up?

[ChristianSt]

I thought the Giant explicitly stated MitD is in one of the monster manuals? Or at least not a creature he made up?


From the MitD-Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293047), OP Section 1a:


<snip>
That is, it isn't something I just made up for the story. It wouldn't be any fun for the answer to a mystery to be something I invented just for one purpose, would it? I won't finally throw back the darkness and have someone say, "Look! It was a therblewurkersaurus the entire time!" or some other made-up monster.
I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one, but I trust that someone will figure it out eventually.

That is the only bit of information we have about the source material (other than the part that I truncated from the quote, stating that Rich knows what the MitD is since around strip #100)

[Kish]

I thought the Giant explicitly stated MitD is in one of the monster manuals? Or at least not a creature he made up?
The second question is presented as something close to the first one, and yet it's a completely different question.

The answer to one of the questions is "Yes." The answer to the other is "No." Most people in this thread have been talking about non-D&D creatures that someone else made up (I'm not sure about invinible).