On elven wizards: Post trance restful activity and watch duty...

[MonkeySage]

My wizard ken is the only elf in the group, and thus I'm wondering... Following trance, as a wizard he's required 4 hours of restful activity. Assuming he's just sitting there with a pipe in his mouth or whatever he does to clear his head for 4 hours, could this restful activity count as part of his watch duty? Would he be at all useful during this time? Ultimately I get that it's up to the dm, but how have others handled this?

Additionally, now that an elven wizard has joined a campaign that I'M running, suggestions on how to handle watch duty with him would be very helpful... fortunately though, there are already two elves in his group that are not wizards, and they watch in shifts.

[Honest Tiefling]

Personally, I'd say no. Keeping watch mean maintaining a constant vigil, noticing every sound, every flicker in the shadows. If you fail, you and your entire party is in danger. One of your party mates might even die if you are distracted for a mere moment.

Not really restful, I think.

[Zaydos]

I just let them take watch. Sitting there smoking your pipe is relaxing and how D&D functions you have the same spot and listen bonus (unless the DM decides that being on watch is worth a +2 circumstance bonus similar to how it talks about resolving if someone specifically looks at places).

[OldTrees1]

Spot (but not Listen) has a -5 penalty for being distracted.

[Spore]

Spot (but not Listen) has a -5 penalty for being distracted.

As DM I'd be fine with watching with a -2 penalty since he is relaxed not really distracted. Cut the mate some slack here. He is already playing an ELF with that punishment you should get some upsides.

[LordHenry]

I'd give him an even bigger penalty than -5, since he's not just talking to somebody, he's in Trance

[Seffbasilisk]

Spot (but not Listen) has a -5 penalty for being distracted.

I don't know where you're getting that number from. Both Spot and Listen are penalized by four points when the character is distracted.


I'd give him an even bigger penalty than -5, since he's not just talking to somebody, he's in Trance

He's speaking about post-trance, in the additional four hours of 'rest' a sorc/wiz requires to regain spells.

Edit: Interesting. My recall of the PHB has both Sorcerers and Wizards requiring eight hours of rest, while d20srd specifies only wizards...

[AMFV]

My wizard ken is the only elf in the group, and thus I'm wondering... Following trance, as a wizard he's required 4 hours of restful activity. Assuming he's just sitting there with a pipe in his mouth or whatever he does to clear his head for 4 hours, could this restful activity count as part of his watch duty? Would he be at all useful during this time? Ultimately I get that it's up to the dm, but how have others handled this?

Additionally, now that an elven wizard has joined a campaign that I'M running, suggestions on how to handle watch duty with him would be very helpful... fortunately though, there are already two elves in his group that are not wizards, and they watch in shifts.

Just have his familiar keep watch, it probably has better spot and listen checks anyhow, and it doesn't need to rest while you do your book learnin' things.

[Spore]

Edit: Interesting. My recall of the PHB has both Sorcerers and Wizards requiring eight hours of rest, while d20srd specifies only wizards...

I think this is a small price to pay to be able to change spell slots on a daily basis. For my (PF) oracle we ruled that spells "show up" at a fixated time of the day, for her being the last few minutes of night before daybreak.

For sorcerers, it is ruled specifically in PF


Daily Readying of Spells: Each day, sorcerers and bards must focus their minds on the task of casting their spells. A sorcerer or bard needs 8 hours of rest (just like a wizard), after which she spends 15 minutes concentrating. (A bard must sing, recite, or play an instrument of some kind while concentrating.) During this period, the sorcerer or bard readies her mind to cast her daily allotment of spells. Without such a period to refresh herself, the character does not regain the spell slots she used up the day before.

Source: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html

[OldTrees1]

I don't know where you're getting that number from. Both Spot and Listen are penalized by four points when the character is distracted.



Spotter distracted Check-5

DC+5 Listener distracted

It is by 5 not 4. Although thanks for pointing out the DC increase for Listen







@Sporeegg
If the relaxing elf were distracted then a -5 penalty is fair. If the elf is not distracted then -0 is fair. If the elf is partially distracted, the game recommends a -2 circumstance penalty but leaves it to the DM's discretion. A trancing Elf probably uses the -10 sleeping penalty during their trance.

[Seffbasilisk]

Just double checked, it's a carry-over from 3.5, on page 179 of the PHB, second column.


...you're right...it is -5 for both of them. My apologies, I think I've been quoting someone who got their numbers from the Telepathy power 'Distract' all of these years.

Edit: Why should trancing take the full sleeping penalty? It's a concentration, not unconsciousness.

[Epsilon Rose]

You know, I've always found that whole thing a bit silly. There are a number of effects in 3.5 that minimize the amount of sleep you need, with Elfishness and ring of sustenance being the standard ones, but you're really limited in how you can leverage that if you have spellcasters in you party, because they still require the same amount of rest as normal. I'm also not entirely sure why this is necessary. I can understand there being a problem with creatures that require no sleep, but how much does it break things if if a wizard only needs 2-4 hours of sleep, especially if you limit how often they can rest?


A trancing Elf probably uses the -10 sleeping penalty during their trance.

If they still take the same penalties, what are the differences between sleeping and trancing, other than the time it takes?

[OldTrees1]

If they still take the same penalties, what are the differences between sleeping and trancing, other than the time it takes?

Does there need to be a mechanical difference beyond the time it takes?

[TuggyNE]

If they still take the same penalties, what are the differences between sleeping and trancing, other than the time it takes?

That is the difference. Well, that and trancing is not something that can be magically induced.

[Inuzuka]

Also, elves who are in a trance are still conscious, and still get listen checks. Being disturbed during a trance just means you have to start again later.

[OldTrees1]

Also, elves who are in a trance are still conscious, and still get listen checks. Being disturbed during a trance just means you have to start again later.

Sleeping characters still get listen checks.

[Sith_Happens]

To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period.

Kind of hard to keep watch when you can't Spot or Listen.