[PF/3.X] Caster defenses

[The Insanity]

I'm making an NPC that has a reputation of a mage killer. I'm not great with casters, that's why I'm making this thread, so I can know what a mage killer can expect from a caster.
What defenses could a Wizard/Cleric/Druid/other Tier 1 or 2 class at low/mid/high levels have, assuming that:
- he's decently optimized, but not overpowered
- has (non-caster) allies that assist him (team members, minions, summons, whatever)
- manages to buy himself some time to buff up during the fight or knows there will be trouble soon
- isn't prepared/preparing for anything specific

The defenses I have in mind are primarily spells he can cast on himself.

[LanSlyde]

I'm making an NPC that has a reputation of a mage killer. I'm not great with casters, that's why I'm making this thread, so I can know what a mage killer can expect from a caster.
What defenses could a Wizard/Cleric/Druid/other Tier 1 or 2 class at low/mid/high levels have, assuming that:
- he's decently optimized, but not overpowered
- has (non-caster) allies that assist him (team members, minions, summons, whatever)
- manages to buy himself some time to buff up during the fight or knows there will be trouble soon
- isn't prepared/preparing for anything specific

The defenses I have in mind are primarily spells he can cast on himself.

Without going into any depth at all, a mage killers greatest weapon in his arsenal would be deception and ignorance. So long as the mage remains unaware that he is being hunted he will be at his most vulnerable. Even then, in terms of defensive spells, AC buffers, miss chance, early warning spells, advanced detection. Plenty of things a mage can pull to make himself less vulnerable. If you want a comprehensive list I'll leave that to someone who has more time. But as a general rule when aiming for mages you want to either hit them after a long day of casting.

That said, I suggest you look into building a character around maximizing stealth and nondetection.

[The Insanity]

Let my clarify. The NPC isn't a mage killer. He only has a reputation of such, because he killed a few in his days (his build isn't "mage killer" oriented, but his abilities are optimal for killing mages in situations as presented earlier). Also I'm not looking for optimization advice for the "mage killer", only spell selection for casters.

[Slipperychicken]

If you're making a melee guy, the feat Step Up can be really annoying for casters who try to 5ft-step away before casting.

If he fights at range, he might use a readied action to interrupt an enemy's spellcasting. The damage he inflicts might break the caster's concentration and waste the spell.

One of the more potent anti-mage strategies is Silence + Grapple. Cast Silence on a big beefy ally with a high CMB/grapple, who then runs up to the caster (shutting down his verbal components with the silence effect), and grapples him (which hopefully shuts down the somatic components as well). Most casters have hilariously low CMD, and without verbal or somatic components, most casters are pretty much boned.

Another good tactic can be to sunder spell component pouches and holy symbols. Many casters do not carry backups of these, and are consequently pretty screwed when they can't access their material/focus components.

Entangling a spellcaster means he has to make a DC 15 + spell level Concentration check to cast, which might make him fail if he's low level.


Let my clarify. The NPC isn't a mage killer. He only has a reputation of such, because he killed a few in his days (his build isn't "mage killer" oriented, but his abilities are optimal for killing mages in situations as presented earlier). Also I'm not looking for optimization advice for the "mage killer", only spell selection for casters.

Whoops...

It depends. What level and class are the spellcasters which the NPCs expects to fight?

[Kelb_Panthera]

I hate to be the one to tell you, but unless your mage killer is at least 65% mage himself, he's surviving on more than a little luck. Even moderately optimized mages are frighteningly hard to take down -with- ready access to magic.

A non-caster needs three things to bring down a mage.
A battleground that he's prepared before hand to limit the mage's mobility and lock out his ability to teleport.
The element of surprise.
More than a little luck
This supposes that he has access to the necessary magicks via items or a hireling.

[Spore]

If we're speaking minions and lair, there's everything between here and the sun what could've been. Typical defenses:

Low Level Defenses:
- Mage Armor, Shield to up AC
- Resist Energy (on element at a time)
- Grease, Alarm, Invisibility, Levitate/Fly, False Life

Low Level Offense:
- Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Lightning Bolt,
- Ray of Enfeeblement, Slow
- Pyrotechnics

and many MANY more.

Mid level Defenses:
- Dimension Door, Resilient Sphere, Summons
- Greater Invisibility, Geas'd creature/adventurer
- Teleport, Contingency (Resilient Sphere if HP below 50%), Contingency (Defense spell x on self if attacked)
- different forms of scrying

Offense:
- Confusion, Black Tentacles, Dispel Magic
- Cone of Cold, Magic Jar, Baleful Polymorph

I can't really help on high level. But stuff like Grasping Hand, Time Stop, Clone, Form of the Dragon, Gate, big Summon spells and Planar Binding will help you to bring flavor.

Generally is everything transmuting or summoning great vs. specialised spell killers. Professional mage killers have means to banish protection spells. Golems are great because they're resistant to attacks and immune to your own magic. They can't be banished, purged or dispelled. Anything that poses a "real" treat instead of a magical one is good, preferably things that aren't save or suck and don't require overcoming spell resistance later on.

[The Insanity]

It depends. What level and class are the spellcasters which the NPCs expects to fight?
Any Tier 1 or 2 classes. Low/mid/high levels.


I hate to be the one to tell you, but unless your mage killer is at least 65% mage himself, he's surviving on more than a little luck. Even moderately optimized mages are frighteningly hard to take down -with- ready access to magic.
Oh, I know that much. But don't worry. I'll make sure there's more than just luck involved. And just FYI, IMO "frighteningly hard to take down" is actually in the overpowered category. Moderately optimized is at most a level appropriate challenge (for a 4 man team at least).


A battleground that he's prepared before hand to limit the mage's mobility and lock out his ability to teleport.
With the right equipment and build I think simply getting in the caster's face should be enough, which the "mage killer" can easily do, so I'm not worried. Mobility isn't a big issue, the MK has that too. And if the caster teleports out, that's a victory in my book.


The element of surprise.
Which the MK will generally have, so that's covered. Good.


More than a little luck
This supposes that he has access to the necessary magicks via items or a hireling.
No hirelings. Maybe some party members. But even alone I think he'll manage.


and many MANY more.
Well, that's what I'm here for, so feel free to expand on that.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Oh, I know that much. But don't worry. I'll make sure there's more than just luck involved. And just FYI, IMO "frighteningly hard to take down" is actually in the overpowered category. Moderately optimized is at most a level appropriate challenge (for a 4 man team at least).An anti-mage squad is a lot more believable than a lone mage-killer. However a single spell can really hamstring a meleer's ability to do damage to a mage: ironguard. It's such a potent defense that buying a scroll each of ironguard and contingency is a worthwhile expense as soon as it's feasible.



With the right equipment and build I think simply getting in the caster's face should be enough, which the "mage killer" can easily do, so I'm not worried. Mobility isn't a big issue, the MK has that too. And if the caster teleports out, that's a victory in my book.This.... is a big red flag to me. You do -not- want someone that can tell reality to sit down and shut up to know you're after him and not have him in your sight and on his heels. Scry and die ambushes while you're sleeping suuuuuck.



Which the MK will generally have, so that's covered. Good.Good.



No hirelings. Maybe some party members. But even alone I think he'll manage.Like I said, you -need- access to magical counters to magical defenses. Wands, woundrous items, I don't care, as long as you get them somehow. You gotta be able to reliably get past flight, teleportation, and at least one form of miss chance before you even hit AC.

Good luck.

[The Insanity]

This.... is a big red flag to me. You do -not- want someone that can tell reality to sit down and shut up to know you're after him and not have him in your sight and on his heels. Scry and die ambushes while you're sleeping suuuuuck.
That's generally true and if the caster escapes that's unfortunate, but at least when the caster isn't there the MK can accomplish his objectives more easily, which is his/the primary concern. Unless of course the objective is to actually kill/capture the caster, but then the MK will make extra preparations for that goal.


Like I said, you -need- access to magical counters to magical defenses. Wands, woundrous items, I don't care, as long as you get them somehow. You gotta be able to reliably get past flight, teleportation, and at least one form of miss chance before you even hit AC.
I... know? :smallconfused:

[Kelb_Panthera]

That's generally true and if the caster escapes that's unfortunate, but at least when the caster isn't there the MK can accomplish his objectives more easily, which is his/the primary concern. Unless of course the objective is to actually kill/capture the caster, but then the MK will make extra preparations for that goal.I honestly don't feel like you're paranoid enough for someone who wants to wear the badge that reads "I kill mages!" but it's your game. Like I said, good luck.



I... know? :smallconfused:Your dismissal of teleportations suggests to me that you may be underestimating how important it is, but I've said my piece on the matter. I wish you happy hunting.

[The Insanity]

I honestly don't feel like you're paranoid enough for someone who wants to wear the badge that reads "I kill mages!" but it's your game.
I don't. :smallconfused:


Your dismissal of teleportations suggests to me that you may be underestimating how important it is, but I've said my piece on the matter. I wish you happy hunting.
What dismissal? I know how important it is, it's just not that big of a deal, which I explained why.
Regardless, thank you for your help.