Torture as Intimidate check?

[Saruman]

Hi, I have a doubt here: the PCs captured a goblin (evil goblin) to find out where their lair was; and tried Intimidate checks to get information from him.
Problem is that Intimidate checks have no retry (or they have retries but I'm not sure how they work).
Instead, PCs would opt for torturing the goblin. Does that count as an Intimidate check? Does the torture add some kind of special bonus? Thanks.



3.5

[HaikenEdge]

It's an intimidate check, as per the Book of Vile Darkness. It has an entire section on torture, if you're so inclined to look it up.

Off the top of my head, I think there are bonuses depending on the items used, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee the truth being told.

[ArcturusV]

There's torture rules in Book of Vile Darkness, if you want to use it.

Key things:

1) Torture allows you to keep making an Intimidate check everytime you use it.

2) You can use Bluff vs Sense Motive to threaten torture to get information.

3) Various devices give you a bonus to Intimidate as they inflict damage. Some normal items can be used, like a dagger. Note that if used to torture a dagger inflicts 2d4 rather than it's normal damage. A dagger, which is probably the one you most likely have available, gives a +4 circumstance bonus to the intimidate check.

4) A victim can bluff and lie to the torturer. The victim rolls Bluff vs Sense motive of the torturer. Because Torturers believe their methods are nigh foolproof and people can't resist it, the torturer gets a -3 to their Sense Motive.

5) If you take someone to zero or lower with torture, heal them, and go at them again you get double the bonus on the torture device used, so your dagger will give you a +8.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I know BoVD says that torturing someone gives you a circumstance bonus on an intimidate check to "improve their attitude." I -think- FC2 says the same.

Trying again doesn't work normally but being a torture victim is -not- normal circumstances. I'd even be inclined to allow a take 20, provided the victim could survive 20 rounds (colloquial use, not game term) of torture.

Goblins aren't really known for their nobility so even just a little torture should be more than enough to get answers out of him.

[Slipperychicken]

It's an intimidate check, as per the Book of Vile Darkness. It has an entire section on torture, if you're so inclined to look it up.


Bear in mind that the victim can attempt to lie instead of giving the correct information. Sense motive checks by the torturer against such deceptions happen at a -3.

[Metahuman1]

I don't think they even really need to go that far. Do Batman, hold him off a roof with a rop tied to his legs and keep letting him fall before stopping him a little lower every time, and insisting he answer questions. Think the "SWEAR TO ME!!!" scene in Batman Begins.

[Sith_Happens]

It's an intimidate check, as per the Book of Vile Darkness. It has an entire section on torture, if you're so inclined to look it up.

Off the top of my head, I think there are bonuses depending on the items used, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee the truth being told.

Note that Intimidate in 3.0 is against a DC rather than being an opposed check, so you should probably modify the torture rules accordingly.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It's a new situation, so a new check is justified, methinks. Though you might roll some percentile dice to see if they get a false positive.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Note that Intimidate in 3.0 is against a DC rather than being an opposed check, so you should probably modify the torture rules accordingly.

Intimidate isn't an opposed check in 3.5, its a DC the same DC it was in 3.0. So the skill hasn't actually changed. DC 10+Hit Dice+Modifiers to saving throws against fear(including wisdom modifier).

[Sith_Happens]

Intimidate isn't an opposed check in 3.5, its a DC the same DC it was in 3.0. So the skill hasn't actually changed. DC 10+Hit Dice+Modifiers to saving throws against fear(including wisdom modifier).


Your Intimidate check is opposed by the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear).

That looks like an opposed check to me.

[AstralFire]

I don't think they even really need to go that far. Do Batman, hold him off a roof with a rop tied to his legs and keep letting him fall before stopping him a little lower every time, and insisting he answer questions. Think the "SWEAR TO ME!!!" scene in Batman Begins.

That is torture, actually.

[Lord Vukodlak]

That looks like an opposed check to me.

So the DC can go higher or lower on average its the same. The Book of Vile darkness rules only modify the bonus to intimidate no reason to adjust the circumstance bonus because the target will roll above 10 fifty percent of the time

That is torture, actually. But more of the diet cola of torture, being dropped off a roof and caught at the last second is similar to bungee jumping.

[ArcturusV]

That and dropping like that should only really function as the bluff of torture (Done once). Or you drop them meaning you make a single intimidate check for doing it.

... compared to if I'm using thumb screws where every round I get to make a check and only inflict 1d3 damage.

[Lord Vukodlak]

That and dropping like that should only really function as the bluff of torture (Done once). Or you drop them meaning you make a single intimidate check for doing it.

... compared to if I'm using thumb screws where every round I get to make a check and only inflict 1d3 damage.

Batman uses the threat of unimaginable pain to get information which ironically is more effective then actual unimaginable pain.

[Deophaun]

Batman uses the threat of unimaginable pain to get information...
That's generally how torture sessions start out. Step one: show the instruments.

[ArcturusV]

Note the torture rules even have a rule for that. Where one time if you have someone tied down you can get a single intimidate check out, with a total bonus of 1/2 all the torture instruments in the room/area that they can see.

[Slipperychicken]

And even if the torture doesn't work out, you can always sacrifice the victim to your dark gods, and you get a little bonus for "tortured for X days prior to sacrifice".

[ArcturusV]

And nothing like free wishes, etc, for solving your problems.

[Venger]

That looks like an opposed check to me.

It isn't an "opposed check" since that's defined as both parties rolling dice.

While it's not a flat DC for all creatures, it is a flat DC for any individual creature. you can't roll to make your defense vs intimidate stronger.



But more of the diet cola of torture, being dropped off a roof and caught at the last second is similar to bungee jumping.

speaking of batman and diet cola (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhvTUhqJR5M)

[Sith_Happens]

It isn't an "opposed check" since that's defined as both parties rolling dice.

While it's not a flat DC for all creatures, it is a flat DC for any individual creature. you can't roll to make your defense vs intimidate stronger.

The target does roll a die.


Your Intimidate check is opposed by the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear).

I'm really not sure where all the confusion is.:smallconfused:

[Venger]

The target does roll a die.



I'm really not sure where all the confusion is.:smallconfused:

whoops!

my mistake.