Custom campaign class list balance

[Baroknik]

Hey all,
I'm starting up a campaign soon and was curious what you all thought of the available classes in terms of balance. I know listing commoner is obviously weaker than sorcerer, but I just mean from likelihood of PC choice being heavily detrimental/OP.
Anyway, here is the list. I'm on my phone at the moment so I can't type out a huge explanation for some minor tweaks I've made, but will update/respond to inquiries when I can. This is based in E6.

Adept
Aristocrat
Barbarian
Bard
Commoner
Crusader
Dragonfire Adept
Expert
Fighter
Healer
Hexblade
Knight
Marshal
Ninja (CA)
Rogue
Shugenja (CD)
Sorcerer
Spirit shaman
Swashbuckler
Swordsage (+unarmed variant)
Warblade
Warrior
Wu Jen

[bekeleven]

You may be interested in the Tier System For Classes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266559) and Why Each Class Is In Its Tier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269440). While some classes are debated to be +/- 1 tier (Warblade and Binder come to mind), the general premise is accepted as canon around these parts.

[Baroknik]

Oh, I know the tier list, that's not really what I'm asking. By restricting the classes to these available (no T1, and only sorc/SS for T2), how does balance end up feeling, do you think?

I'm curious how people feel about the change in dynamics of this in a campaign setting. It's no tippyverse and it tends closer to an early medieval feel outside of major cities (crude weapons, etc -- picture Conanesque) with a strong tendency for casters to be outcasts (Wu Jen flavor). My group tends to be fairly low op, with those who do optimize tending to prefer melee (I feel like I am the only player that regularly plays a caster).

With the restricted class list above, how likely is a complete overshadowing, would you all think?
Also any suggestions for alterations would be greatly appreciated.

[Drelua]

I'm curious about why you chose to get rid of Ranger, but not Fighter or Rogue. If it's for power reasons, which would certainly explain why you dropped Monk and Paladin, I'd say Fighter and Rogue are both weaker. I'd consider dropping Fighter and letting that role be filled by other classes, such as Warblade, and replacing Rogue with Factotum, or at least introducing it as an alternative, if you have access to it.

[Baroknik]

The ranger thing is more about setting reasons, not balance. There are no truly divine beings in the game so most divine magic is out. Spirits Are the primary source of otherworldly casting, so certain classes fit the feel of the class. Fighter is available mostly because it's non-offending from any lore perspective, and dipping fighter isn't really painful for martial classes (also one of my players detests ToB so warblade wouldn't be much of an option for him). Scout is the replacement for rangers (social) position in the setting.

[Dread_Head]

The small amount of ranger casting could easily be fluffed as coming from spirits and i've always found ranger a nicely flavourful class to include if you can.

Also in response to Drelua fighter is a good class to include as a dip class for melee chars to get more feats.

[Drelua]

Okay, I guess I can see that, although technically Rangers don't get their spells from a deity, except in the Forgotten Realms, I think. I'm probably just a bit biased since it's one of my favourite classes, and Scout really doesn't work to fill the same role for me. I don't really see them as skill monkeys, and Scout is the only base class other than Rogue I can think of that gets 8+INT skill points. But hey, that's just my opinion, it doesn't matter at your table. :smallsmile:

Edit: Oh, and that's a good point about Fighter. I guess there's no reason to ban a 2-level dip.

[Kuulvheysoon]

You may be interested in the Tier System For Classes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266559) and Why Each Class Is In Its Tier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269440). While some classes are debated to be +/- 1 tier (Warblade and Binder come to mind), the general premise is accepted as canon around these parts.
Note that the OP mentioned this as an E6 world - the Tier system only starts there, so it's not really an appropriate suggestion here, unfortunately.


The ranger thing is more about setting reasons, not balance. There are no truly divine beings in the game so most divine magic is out. Spirits Are the primary source of otherworldly casting, so certain classes fit the feel of the class. Fighter is available mostly because it's non-offending from any lore perspective, and dipping fighter isn't really painful for martial classes (also one of my players detests ToB so warblade wouldn't be much of an option for him). Scout is the replacement for rangers (social) position in the setting.
Shamans (OA) might fit the necessary fluff, and I see that you already have Spirit Shamans on the list.

[Baroknik]

I definitely considered shaman, but it would have a hard time fitting in a separate role as the SS as far as social structure is concerned. Honestly, that's the biggest problem with ranger in the setting as well -- it just doesn't fit the social world too well. No one reveres nature itself that much, and while I don't have a problem with ranger, it feels out of place to me. I'm still on my phone right now, will see what I can do about posting a summary when I get to my computer.
Also, how powerful is the OA shaman? I've heard it can be pretty strong, which is something I'm trying to avoid. The two t2 classes in this campaign are both diametrically opposed to one another in the game world, which gives some semblance of balance between heavy hitters to keep each other in check, adding a third full caster to the mix may complicate things (wu jen are full casters, but are pariahs -- think in terms of witches in classic lore)