two wepon fighting/wirling frenzy/flurry of blows

[Jgosse]

would any or all of these work together?
flury of blows
wirling frenzy
two wepon fighting

[lunar2]

iirc, multiple methods of getting extra attacks with a single weapon don't stack. however, you could flurry with one weapon and whirling frenzy with the other.

[Dread_Head]

Only methods of getting another attack which specifically have limitations (such as haste) don't stack. As far as I can tell TWF and whirling frenzy stack and flurry and whirling frenzy stack. I've never been sure on TWF and flurry stacking but I'd probably rule they would. So overall I'd rule they all stack if you were willing to take all the penalties.

[Jgosse]

Only methods of getting another attack which specifically have limitations (such as haste) don't stack. As far as I can tell TWF and whirling frenzy stack and flurry and whirling frenzy stack. I've never been sure on TWF and flurry stacking but I'd probably rule they would. So overall I'd rule they all stack if you were willing to take all the penalties.

That's what I was think. so at monk 1/barbarian 2 I would have BAB 2 and using all 3 I would have 4 attacks at -4/-4/-4/-4.

[MeeposFire]

Do notice that stacking so many penalties will really hurt your chances to hit with little return. Those extra attacks are only worth it if you can hit with them reliably.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Dump strength and grab Intuitive Attack and try to qualify for Shiba Protector (OA)?

[MeeposFire]

Dump strength and grab Intuitive Attack and try to qualify for Shiba Protector (OA)?

That does not really help much as all it does is allow you to key off wisdom rather than str. Accuracy would still be low. That also tends to send you in directions that give you more attacks and less damage per hit which typically is less effective than making more damage per attack and slightly less attacks (due to DR mostly).

[Kuulvheysoon]

That does not really help much as all it does is allow you to key off wisdom rather than str. Accuracy would still be low. That also tends to send you in directions that give you more attacks and less damage per hit which typically is less effective than making more damage per attack and slightly less attacks (due to DR mostly).

It'd help reduce your MAD by giving you Wisdom to attack (twice!) and Wisdom to damage, in addition to the Wisdom synergy with perception skills and AC bonus.

An Amulet of Natural Attacks would be hugely helpful here, though, I'm willing to admit.

[Jgosse]

Do notice that stacking so many penalties will really hurt your chances to hit with little return. Those extra attacks are only worth it if you can hit with them reliably.
taking other numbers into account they will all be +2 so 4 roles at +2 are more likely to hit then 1 at +6 unless the target ac is higher then 22.

[Jgosse]

There is no magic or supernatural abilities in this game. something I should have mentioned.

[Metahuman1]

I'd say your going down a path that will prove disappointing then. Your gonna need magic items/ability's in a game with this kinda build.

[Bovine Colonel]

There is no magic or supernatural abilities in this game. something I should have mentioned.

To clarify - "magic and supernatural abilities" you mean ALL of them?

[MeeposFire]

taking other numbers into account they will all be +2 so 4 roles at +2 are more likely to hit then 1 at +6 unless the target ac is higher then 22.

That is 4 roles at -4 remember and you should compare that to having 3 attacks at -2 or two attacks at 0. Lastly you need to look at what you could be doing. With this kind of plan something with DR 5 kills your damage almost completely as compared to rocking more damage per hit with slightly fewer attacks.

IN addition you are really setting yourself up to be screwed if you ever cannot full attack and doing it early with little way to fix it later in the game. Right now anything thta prevents a charge or slows makes you go from 4 weak attacks to 1 weak attack. IT hurts a lot.

[Jgosse]

To clarify - "magic and supernatural abilities" you mean ALL of them?

there are humans , animals , martial classes , and one kind of giant. no magic and no super natural abilities what so ever unless we can make a non explanation.

[Jgosse]

That is 4 roles at -4 remember and you should compare that to having 3 attacks at -2 or two attacks at 0. Lastly you need to look at what you could be doing. With this kind of plan something with DR 5 kills your damage almost completely as compared to rocking more damage per hit with slightly fewer attacks.

IN addition you are really setting yourself up to be screwed if you ever cannot full attack and doing it early with little way to fix it later in the game. Right now anything thta prevents a charge or slows makes you go from 4 weak attacks to 1 weak attack. IT hurts a lot.

2d6+4 6 if raging. and I don't think I will have to worry about Dr much in this campaign.

[Metahuman1]

there are humans , animals , martial classes , and one kind of giant. no magic and no super natural abilities what so ever unless we can make a non explanation.

A None Explanation would be an explanation of "It's not magic it's skill" right?

If so,

Totemist with dips into Fist of the Forest, unarmed swordsage and Warblade.

Between the counters and standard action strikes the two tome of battle dips should leave you playable if anything manages to HAVE DR, Slow or prevents a charge. And gives you a few ways to not totally fail the first time the dice don't wanna agree with your plan.

Now, Totemist in this gives you more attacks. Shape natural attacks soulmelds and just fluff it as an ass tone of unarmed strikes.

[Jgosse]

A None Explanation would be an explanation of "It's not magic it's skill" right?

If so,

Totemist with dips into Fist of the Forest, unarmed swordsage and Warblade.

Between the counters and standard action strikes the two tome of battle dips should leave you playable if anything manages to HAVE DR, Slow or prevents a charge. And gives you a few ways to not totally fail the first time the dice don't wanna agree with your plan.

Now, Totemist in this gives you more attacks. Shape natural attacks soulmelds and just fluff it as an ass tone of unarmed strikes.yeah I was tired when I posted. none magic would be skill or somekind of minor technology . technology could be springs, steam, compressed gas, minor chemistry, ect ect.

[Urpriest]

there are humans , animals , martial classes , and one kind of giant. no magic and no super natural abilities what so ever unless we can make a non explanation.

Just curious, what system is your DM using to address the lack of magic items? Since AC scales with magic, while attack scales with BAB.

[Jgosse]

Just curious, what system is your DM using to address the lack of magic items? Since AC scales with magic, while attack scales with BAB.

I think it that case it will be "quality"

[Urpriest]

I think it that case it will be "quality"

I don't know what you mean by that.

[OldTrees1]

I don't know what you mean by that.

Superior Masterwork items?
Superior Mundane special materials?

[Particle_Man]

Your DM might be happy with Iron Heroes, btw. It is a d20 game that sorta does the "Martial classes without magic" thing.

[Jgosse]

Superior Masterwork items?
Superior Mundane special materials?

he may just expalin a +2 sword away as being a higher quality Item. made by a master sword smith of better steal ect.

we talked about me having spring boots for boots of striding and springing. some magic Items are going to be gadgets. but I am not going to be able to have a acid sword or a ring of wishes, anything that can't be written as tech/gadget.

[Urpriest]

he may just expalin a +2 sword away as being a higher quality Item. made by a master sword smith of better steal ect.

we talked about me having spring boots for boots of striding and springing. some magic Items are going to be gadgets. but I am not going to be able to have a acid sword or a ring of wishes, anything that can't be written as tech/gadget.

Hmm. So a third of AC scaling (the armor) can come from "enhanced masterwork" items or whatever. It would be trickier to justify the other two-thirds, from Deflection and Natural Armor, but I suppose the DM could just make the high quality masterwork armor scale faster than magic armor does. Of course, with WBL only being spent on those sorts of things, the WBL scale would have to be recalculated a bit. Presumably the DM has worked these things out, and the next time someone makes a new character he'll show you the entry on his modified table for that level.

[Ruethgar]

Being a chaos monk let's you dodge some of the limitations of flurry of blows, get potentially more attacks, and doesn't conflict with the barbarian alignment. For a no magic setting, the Ravenloft Scientist(and the requisite feat Create Device) can be quite potent.

[ericgrau]

Yes you can get as many extra attacks as you want from as many sources as you want as long as you meet all the required conditions. For example to TWF + flurry you need an off-hand (for TWF) monk weapon (for flurry). But beware that attacks are not the same thing as hits and you have to watch what it does to your attack bonus. Around 5 attacks a -2 starts to outweigh the benefits, and even before that point the gains per ability start to become very low while a feat or a level is not free.

So while you can do 3+ tricks I wouldn't bother with more than 2 tricks that have a penalty, and at very high level not more than 1. But if you get things like snap kick that work as part of a standard action they're very nice on standard actions because 1 is a heck of a lot less than 5. You just wouldn't snap kick on a full attack. Or pounce to make every attack a full attack is even better.