Sneak attack to the max

[Bullet06320]

looking at revamping an old character, that was was a rogue, sneak attack with thrown daggers was the primary damage dealer
looking to maximize that effect as best as possible
I welcome all ideas 3rd party material is allowed, please cite sources
thanks

[Kuulvheysoon]

Possibilities?

Look up the Halfling Rogue substitution levels (Races of the Wild), Whisperknife prestige class (Races of the Wild) and the Master Thrower prestige class (Complete Warrior). Those are three good places to start.

[Bullet06320]

I geuss I should have mentioned it will be a human rogue, highlevel optimized game
but master thrower is something I hadn't thought of, I was thinking jack of knives prc out of path of shadow by legend an lairs

[Maginomicon]

Bracers of the Hunter (8,500 gp; Secrets of Xen'drik page 145) increase your SA dice by 1d6.

It should be noted that a 20th-level Lurk (Complete Psionic) can spend a lurk augment and 20 PP as a swift action to deal 15d6 psionic SA which stacks with normal SA. That means it has a limited number of applications a day, but hey, you just said maximum SA, so there you go.

See also the Craven feat (Champions of Ruin page 17) which adds non-dice damage to SA equal to your HD.

[LordConcrete]

Factotum with like a bazillion Font of Inspirations.

[Stux]

I read the title to this thread and immediately went to try and build a character with the highest sneak attack possible. Just number of dice. Got 8d6 at level 10 using official PF material only. Anyone beat that? I'm sure someone will :smallbiggrin:

[Kuulvheysoon]

I read the title to this thread and immediately went to try and build a character with the highest sneak attack possible. Just number of dice. Got 8d6 at level 10 using official PF material only. Anyone beat that? I'm sure someone will :smallbiggrin:

10d6 (within 30ft, has to be non-melee) at 10th level using official 3.5e material?:smallbiggrin:

[LordConcrete]

Human Factotum 20
1.FoI
1.FoI
3.FoI
6.FoI
9.FoI
12.FoI
15.FoI
18.FoI

46 Inspiration points all into a single cunning strike
46d6 damage (Sneak Attack Dice, though it is only one attack)

No chaos shuffling

[Curmudgeon]

Human Factotum 20
...
46 Inspiration points all into a single cunning strike
46d6 damage (Sneak Attack Dice, though it is only one attack)
Sorry, but your math is wrong. You get 46 x 1d6 sneak attack, of which you choose the best d6 value. (You'll have a really high chance of adding +6!) These all overlap rather than stack, because the text of Cunning Strike includes no exemption from the basic stacking rule.
Stacking

In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus and worst penalty applies. Cunning Strike is the source of the damage bonus in every case.

Sneak attack, as a source of bonus damage, doesn't stack by default. That's why the Rogue class has +1d6 sneak attack @ level 1, and +2d6 sneak attack @ level 3: these don't (aren't allowed to) add, but rather the new amount replaces the old value.

[LordConcrete]

Oh my bad.

[GutterFace]

Craven. all day and night.

[Story]

Take a level in Ninja or Binder to get Sudden Strike. Be a Silverbrow human and take Dragonfire Strike to get an extra dice on both SA and SS. Get Bracers of the Hunter and Bracers of Murder (use MiC combining rules) for another +1d6 and reroll all 1s (effectively +.5 per die).

Be a Master Thrower to double all your shruiken attacks (fits well with Ninja flavor)

[HaikenEdge]

Depending on how your DM view the UA Generic Classes, if you're allowed to use those in combination with regular classes, you could get +9d6 Sneak Attack via some three strategically played class levels.

[Story]

But they explicitly say you shouldn't mix them with normal classes.

[HaikenEdge]

But they explicitly say you shouldn't mix them with normal classes.

"Shouldn't" is an advisory; "Can't" is a prohibition. Hence, "Depending on how your DM views the UA Generic Classes...".

[LordConcrete]

This isn't mine. I got this from PlzBreakMyCampaign.
Here's the [link.] (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3084.0)

It's listed under Total Sneak Attack.
The classes:
Binder 1 / Rogue 1 / Spell Thief 1 / Psionic Rogue 1 / Wilderness Rogue 1 / SA Variant Fighter 1 / Master of Masks 1 / Justiciar of Taiia 1 / Nightsong Enforcer 1 / Guild Thief 1 / Assassin 1 / Ninja of the Crescent Moon 1 / Fang of Sseth 1 / Unseen Seer 1 / Swift Scion 2 / Bayushi Deceiver 1 / Shadow Thief of Amn 1 / Ronin 1 / Cancer Mage 1
The application:
8d6 racial after you draconic polymorph into a Kelvasu Demon (MM2 59)
19d6 from every level after 1
3d6 Binder 1 binding Andromalius with major bloodline & improved binding feat
2d6+24 via martial stance, & craven feats with healer's vision
1d6 via Bracers of the Hunter
1d6 Mantle of the Predator (on melee only but +5 hide&move is good too)
1d6 via Rogue Vest
1d6 Foe Specialist feat [MH26] to favored enemy type
3d6 Umbral Awn or Custom Legacy
2d6SA via Enhancements of Assassination (+1) & Deadly Precision enhancement (+1) [MiC32]
1d6 Critical Strike Spell (assassin 1 from unseen seer help) swift -> keen & power critical
1d6 from finger blade if 1st round of combat and able to be flat-footed (technically unnamed SA)
1d6 Mutineer's Eye Pirate graft Drag Mag 318 p54 (-2 Spot, SA only if you already have, 4k gp)
Channel the Mishtai = +1d6 for 1 minute
Nightstalker's Transformation = +3d6SA, ~spells for the 10 rounds but can still UMD
Hunter's Eye = +7d6 SA as swift for 1 round (CL 19)
= 55d6+24 for each iteration (8 attacks per round I would consider the minimum, giving 573-2570 SA damage on a full attack)

He has a note later saying that one could get a higher sneak attack by CL-boosting Hunter's Eye.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Won't you wind up with, like, a +0 BAB after all those 1-level dips? I guess you'd need some scrolls of Divine Power.

[Godskook]

Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer X/Daggerspell Mage Y

ACFs:
-Abrupt Jaunt
-Fighter Wizard(For Improved Initiative)
-Focused Specialist(Conjurer)

Feats:
-Able Learner(if human)
-Weapon Finesse
-Prestige pre-reqs
-Practiced Caster(after you hit daggerspell mage)
-Persistent Spell(when you can)

Spells:
Sniper's Shot - Sneak attack at any range - 1 round
Hunter's Eye - 1d6 SA / 3 CL - 1 round - Normally a ranger spell, picked up via USSeer's advanced learning
Dancing Blade - Free action melee attack - round/level
Cloud of Knives - Free action ranged attack - round/level
Steel Dance - *2* Free action melee attacks - round/level
Greater Luminous Armor - +8 AC, -4 to melee attacks against you - hours/level
Wraithstrike - melee attacks are touch attacks - 1 round
Heart of X spells - Assortment of useful spells
Greater Luminous Armor - Need to be good, but its the best armor you can cast.
Heroics - Get *ANY* fighter feat. May or may not stack, ask your DM.
Mirror Move - Hire a mook, use a party member, or heroics-stacking to pick the feats you want.

iirc, that clocks 6-7d6 SA by lvl 20, and without gear-based CL boosters, you're getting an additional 6d6 SA, putting you over 'par' by 2-3d6. You then use Dancing Blade, Cloud of Knives and Steel Dance to rev up your damage per round.

You'll obviously need to deal with the standard rogue issues of "how do I force SA?", but once you do, you're dropping 1 ranged and 3 melee attacks per round as free actions, all with 12d6 SA attached.

Oh, and Unseen Seer is more important to start first, to get the ranger spell Hunter's Eye, but iirc, Daggerspell Mage's capstone is stronger.

[prufock]

Get a bloodline, dipping as many classes that grant sneak attack as possible, as long as they have a sneak attack progression that calculates by level. the bloodline will add to the level of each.

Moderate bloodline + 18 different classes that grant sneak attack at first level and every 2 levels thereafter = 18d6+18d6 = 36d6 without any buffs or items at level 20. I'm making assumptions here, namely that enough classes of this type exist and that you can use fractional BAB if you actually want to hit something.

Whether this character is actually useful is another matter.

[gorfnab]

One build I've used previously:
Strongheart Halfling or Human
1. Rogue - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Craven, Far Shot, 2x Flaws
2. Swashbuckler - B: Weapon Finesse
3. Rogue - Two Weapon Fighting
4. Rogue - Penetrating Strike ACF(DS)
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swordsage - B: Weapon Focus: Shadow Hand weapons, Shadowblade
7. Swashbuckler
8. Fighter - Hit-and-Run Tactics ACF (DotU - if your DM is lenient), Targeteer ACF (DragMag 310)- Vital Aim
9. Fighter - Targeteer ACF - Rapid Shot, Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10. Swordsage
11. Master Thrower - B: Quick Draw
12. Master Thrower - Dead Eye (DragMag 304)
13. Master Thrower
14. Master Thrower - B: Snatch Arrows
15. Master Thrower - B: Improved Critical, Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Invisible Blade
17. Invisible Blade
18. Invisible Blade - Improved Precise Shot
19. Invisible Blade
20. Invisible Blade

Some ideas for getting infinite daggers to throw:
Gauntlet of Infinite Blades (MIC) -ask the DM if you can change it to Free action activation instead of Swift. That way you can get more than one dagger per round.
Glove of Endless Javelins (MIC) - ask the DM if you can change the javelin part to daggers if you also reduce the damage from 1d6+1 to 1d4+1
Quiver of Anariel - ask the DM if you can change the "Quiver" to "Bandoleer" and arrow(s) to dagger(s).
Quiver of Anariel



Quiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver.

Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.
Thankfully someone saved this article here (http://web.archive.org/web/20070401150041/http:/ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/?doc=fr_lonedrowstats) since WOTC decided to delete the original posting.

Other items to consider:
Rogue's Vest (MIC)
Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (ToM)
Bracers of the Hunter (SoX)

[Lord Haart]

Sorry, but your math is wrong. You get 46 x 1d6 sneak attack, of which you choose the best d6 value. (You'll have a really high chance of adding +6!) These all overlap rather than stack, because the text of Cunning Strike includes no exemption from the basic stacking rule. Cunning Strike is the source of the damage bonus in every case.

Sneak attack, as a source of bonus damage, doesn't stack by default. That's why the Rogue class has +1d6 sneak attack @ level 1, and +2d6 sneak attack @ level 3: these don't (aren't allowed to) add, but rather the new amount replaces the old value.

Is bonus damage (especially bonus damage dice) considered a "modifier to a given check or roll"? Somehow i've got the impression that this is very much not the case, so i'd like to ask for backing text. Otherwise, doesn't it break a lot of sneak attack stacking in general (sure, some classes that grant SA do have a "stacks with SA from other sources" clause, but neither the rogue itself nor, say, SA fighter seem to)?

And yes, i'm kinda crazy. Doubting Curmudgeon on rogue matters isn't the kind of crazy i can do without noticing myself.

[Curmudgeon]

Is bonus damage (especially bonus damage dice) considered a "modifier to a given check or roll"?
Certainly. Damage is given by a damage roll, as stated in the definition (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_damage&alpha=D):
Modifiers to melee damage rolls apply to both subcategories of weapon damage (melee and unarmed). A bonus (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_bonus&alpha=B) is a positive modifier:
bonus: A positive modifier to a die roll. In most cases, multiple bonuses from the same source or of the same type in effect on the same character or object do not stack; only the highest bonus of that type applies. Bonuses that don't have a specific type always stack with all bonuses. Straight out of the official Glossary definitions.

[Carth]

Have you considered unseen seer, from Complete Mage? Sure, this is probably going in a different direction than you want, but if you use unseen seer's advanced learning to pick up hunter's eye (PHB2 spell), as a swift action you can grant yourself an additional CL/3 d6 sneak attack damage.

Rogue1/wizard2/rogue+2 is a decent entry, or if you can get it past your DM, rogue1/wizard1/sneak attack thug fighter2/rogue+1 gets 3d6 sneak attack and evasion. Rogue1/wizard3/rogue+1 also works if you'd rather sacrifice the sneak attack die to get the faster spell progression. Don't underestimate the utility of unseen seer, they have 6+int skill points per level, medium BAB, and full casting progression, so many of the buffs you normally have to buy or beg for you can do yourself.

[Tevesh]

Assassin's Stance from ToB, which has yet to be explicitly stated but implied (such as with a Swordsage Dip) is a potential Feat sink.

I don't think lots of a Sneak Attack dice is that good, diversity is more important because a single Ooze and you're done.

Dex to Damage is far more important, such as through thrown weapons by going Master Thrower route, Shadow Blade Feat from ToB for melee ToB and Hit-And-Run Tactics from the Drow Handbook.

Penetrating Strike and Craven seem pretty mandatory to me as well. It just sucks that everyone's going to call you Mr. Pee Pants due to your cowardly nature.

[Godskook]

Have you considered unseen seer, from Complete Mage? Sure, this is probably going in a different direction than you want, but if you use unseen seer's advanced learning to pick up hunter's eye (PHB2 spell), as a swift action you can grant yourself an additional CL/3 d6 sneak attack damage.

Rogue1/wizard2/rogue+2 is a decent entry, or if you can get it past your DM, rogue1/wizard1/sneak attack thug fighter2/rogue+1 gets 3d6 sneak attack and evasion. Rogue1/wizard3/rogue+1 also works if you'd rather sacrifice the sneak attack die to get the faster spell progression. Don't underestimate the utility of unseen seer, they have 6+int skill points per level, medium BAB, and full casting progression, so many of the buffs you normally have to buy or beg for you can do yourself.

Rogue 1/Wizard 4 is by far the best Unseen Seer entry, power-wise.

[Carth]

I can actually see an argument for wizard5, to pick up spontaneous divination for hunter's eye.

[(Un)Inspired]

Rogue 1/Wizard 4 is by far the best Unseen Seer entry, power-wise.

I think unseen seer might be the best bet for simply maximizing number of sneak attack die you can throw onto the table in one round. I think you should echew using weapons to deal this sneak attack like a chump, use the telekinesis spell.

go Rogue 1/Wizard 9/ unseen seer 10 use The sniper's eye spell so you can sneak attack at the maximum distance you can throw objects using the telekinesis spell. Use Hunter's eye to get an additional 6d6 sneak attack. Take craven to really stack on the damage. Now make sure you're carry a bunch of daggers or shuriken or pebbles, anything you can fire off with your spell at some soon to be dead guy.

Casting telekinesis lets you throw 15 objects at someone. Cast twinned telekinesis followed by quickened teleknesis. Thats:

4d6 SA from unseen seer
1d6 SA from rogue
6d6 from Hunter's eye
+20 damage from craven

11d6+20 damage per attack and you get to make 45 attacks.

What's that, 495d6+900? Can anyone beat that? All first party material with only one prestige class. Easy peasy living greasy