I have never used Point Buy (gasp!)

[unseenmage]

No really, never. And now I find myself with a Warforged Scout Artificer and a 32 point buy and no clue how to proceed.

Also, general Point Buy discussion I suppose.


And if it's not too much trouble, could someone please tell me what the stats should look like for a 32 point buy Warforged Scout Artificer hoardificer? Game is supposed to be lvl 16 potentially into epic.

[Flickerdart]

Counting PB by hand is for suckers. Use the second calculator on this page (http://tools.digitalightbulb.com/pbcalc.html) for fun and profit.

[unseenmage]

Can I do better than Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 14?

[One Step Two]

Can I do better than Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 14?

Yes, with those stats, you've only spent 26 of your 32.

You can turn the 14 into a 16, and make a 10 another 12.

[unseenmage]

Yes, with those stats, you've only spent 26 of your 32.

You can turn the 14 into a 16, and make a 10 another 12.

Huh, that's not what the calculator Flickerdart supplied says...
This is a Warforged Scout and not just a normal Warforged, could that be throwing one of us off?

[One Step Two]

Possible.

I generated:

10, 10, 12, 12, 16, 16

this is before racial mods

You can also get

8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 16

[Sliver]

Why are you investing 4 points in strength? You really have nothing important to do with strength and your carrying capacity is rubbish anyway. Go with a crossbow if you want a weapon.

[Yawgmoth]

Why are you investing 4 points in strength? You really have nothing important to do with strength and your carrying capacity is rubbish anyway. Go with a crossbow if you want a weapon. Str 10 is 2 points, not 4, but the question of "why?" is just as pertinent. I'd boost dex, con, or wis by 2 instead.

[Eldariel]

Pre-racial adjustments: 14 Con, 16 Int, 14 Cha is what I'd start with. That's 6 + 10 + 6 = 22 points. Then 14 Dex, 8 Wis, 8 Str. This leaves you with 4 points: If you're opposed to 8 Wis, this allows for 12 Wis (10 with racial adjustments). 18 Int is viable too; that array would look like 18 Int, 14 Cha, 14 Con, 12 Dex or so.

Basically, Intelligence is the primary stat for Artificers. Infusion DCs, skill points, Knowledges and such are all Int-based. Charisma is secondary, for UMD bonus mostly. Dex and Con are always important, for Initiative, early level AC & of course HP, Fortitude, Concentration, Tumble & Reflex-saves.


With the racial Warforged Scout-penalties, I think you want at least 14 Charisma base (12 with adjustments). Whether you want a Wisdom penalty or not is up to you of course; up to 14 Wisdom will offset it if you want that for general sanity of the character, Wisdom-based skills & Will-saves (but they're already pretty good for Artificer).

Physical stats matter even less higher up, where you can use Polymorph Wands to keep yourself going all day.

[unseenmage]

Pre-racial adjustments: 14 Con, 16 Int, 14 Cha is what I'd start with. That's 6 + 10 + 6 = 22 points. Then 14 Dex, 8 Wis, 8 Str. This leaves you with 6 points: If you're opposed to 8 Wis, this allows for 12 Wis (10 with racial adjustments). 18 Int is viable too; that array would look like 18 Int, 14 Cha, 14 Con, 12 Dex or so.

Basically, Intelligence is the primary stat for Artificers. Infusion DCs, skill points, Knowledges and such are all Int-based. Charisma is secondary, for UMD bonus mostly. Dex and Con are always important, for Initiative, early level AC & of course HP, Fortitude, Concentration, Tumble & Reflex-saves.


With the racial Warforged Scout-penalties, I think you want at least 14 Charisma base (12 with adjustments). Whether you want a Wisdom penalty or not is up to you of course; up to 14 Wisdom will offset it if you want that for general sanity of the character, Wisdom-based skills & Will-saves (but they're already pretty good for Artificer).

Physical stats matter even less higher up, where you can use Polymorph Wands to keep yourself going all day.

Thanks for this. Your breakdown and Flickerdart's calculator really really helped. Much appreciated.

[Eldariel]

Thanks for this. Your breakdown and Flickerdart's calculator really really helped. Much appreciated.

Obviously, I somehow calculated wrong; 10+6+6+6 = 28, not 26 so you have 4 points left after 14 Dex/Con/Cha and 16 Int, not 6 as I first claimed. Sorry about that. Doesn't change much; I even somehow calculated the amount of Wisdom you'd get right without fixing this.

One relevant option I didn't mention that's worthwhile is buying 16 Cha, Con or Dex. Any of those costs you 4 points so 16 Int, 16 in one of Cha/Con/Dex and 14 in two of Cha/Con/Dex is also a 32pb.

[lsfreak]

Obviously, I somehow calculated wrong; 10+6+6+6 = 28, not 26 so you have 4 points left after 14 Dex/Con/Cha and 16 Int, not 6 as I first claimed. Sorry about that. Doesn't change much; I even somehow calculated the amount of Wisdom you'd get right without fixing this.

So... two wrongs made a right? Don't worry, I want to stab me for that too.

For a quick overview of how point buy actually works, in case you still want it:
- All attributes start at 8.
- Raising an attribute to 9 costs one point, 10 costs 2 points, 11 3 points, 12 4 points, 13 5 points, and 14 6 points. One point per increase.
- Raising attributes above that costs extra - instead of 1 point per increase, it costs 2 for 15 and 16, and 3 for 17 and 18. So raising something to 17 is

8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 10 13
One point for each increase from 9-14, two points for each increase at 15 and 16, and 3 points to increase to 17.

[Chronos]

Go ahead and dump Wis. What's the point of being a Mad Scientist if you can't be mad, I tell you, MAD!!!?