Ruling the world/leadership help

[Gwazi Magnum]

Basically two questions in one.

1. What's the best way you guys can think of to maximize leadership?
-1a. Would you say feats that boost leadership works with the Thrallherds ability?

2. What would you suggest for a character whose end goal is to conquer the world? Or at least reap the benefits of the world without actually directly ruling it? How would such a character/world leader be built? How would they be played? How roles may they need other players to fill in as to support said goal?

[OldTrees1]

1) Cha based character, Take Undead Leadership and Leadership feats, RP someone that people would want to follow (Fair, Generous, Special Power, ...)
1a) No

2) What optimization level?
Infinite Army or Finite Army?

[Mithril Leaf]

Take Leadership and Epic Leadership. Use your followers to run a business (from DMG II). Use the business and Leadership rules from Powers of Faerun to have an exponentially increasing number of followers.

[Gwazi Magnum]

1) Cha based character, Take Undead Leadership and Leadership feats, RP someone that people would want to follow (Fair, Generous, Special Power, ...)
1a) No

2) What optimization level?
Infinite Army or Finite Army?

1) Would I also benefit from Might Makes Right and investing in both STR and CHA? Then I can also go into Orc Warlord for 200% followers. Or is that to much of a detour/distraction?


Take Leadership and Epic Leadership. Use your followers to run a business (from DMG II). Use the business and Leadership rules from Powers of Faerun to have an exponentially increasing number of followers.

I looked at these before, but how would followers aid a business and how would a business create more followers?

[Mithril Leaf]

1) Would I also benefit from Might Makes Right and investing in both STR and CHA? Then I can also go into Orc Warlord for 200% followers. Or is that to much of a detour/distraction?



I looked at these before, but how would followers aid a business and how would a business create more followers?

Followers aid another you on the check by working as free employees. Businesses grant an increase in leadership scores based on their profit margins.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Followers aid another you on the check by working as free employees. Businesses grant an increase in leadership scores based on their profit margins.

Cool. The aid another thing though doesn't stack though right?
I assume you mean the 'aid another' skill check feature?

[OldTrees1]

1) Would I also benefit from Might Makes Right and investing in both STR and CHA? Then I can also go into Orc Warlord for 200% followers. Or is that to much of a detour/distraction?


Depends on your level. If you expect to reach 3rd level in the Orc Warlord prestige class, then it might be worth taking Might Makes Right before Undead Leadership. However in general, by 9th level you should be getting dangerously close to maxing out Leadership*. (until the Epic Leadership feat)

*9th level + 6 (Great Renown, Fairness, Special Power, Base) + 5 (20 Cha) = 20 Leadership out of a Maximum of 25 leadership pre epic.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Depends on your level. If you expect to reach 3rd level in the Orc Warlord prestige class, then it might be worth taking Might Makes Right before Undead Leadership. However in general, by 9th level you should be getting dangerously close to maxing out Leadership*. (until the Epic Leadership feat)

*9th level + 6 (Great Renown, Fairness, Special Power, Base) + 5 (20 Cha) = 20 Leadership out of a Maximum of 25 leadership pre epic.

Honestly it never dawned on me that taking both was allowed... That's just amazing. :/

Wouldn't Orc Warlord still be beneficial though even after epic leadership?

[OldTrees1]

Honestly it never dawned on me that taking both was allowed... That's just amazing. :/

Wouldn't Orc Warlord still be beneficial though even after epic leadership?

Are you planning on getting to level 21? Normally you should not plan on Epic Feats unless you have a reasonable expectation to reach level 21.

Orc Warlord is still beneficial (x200% followers) but it does take 3 levels and a feats (Might makes Right) that will provide a diminishing return until Epic levels.


Edit:
For maximum Followers:
Classes: Orc Warlord 3
Feats:Leadership[6th], Might Makes Right[9th], Undead Leadership[12th], Assemble the Horde[15th], Class Champion[18th], Epic Leadership[21st]

Base followers pre epic
135[1st] 13[2nd] 7[3rd] 4[4th] 2[5th] 2[6th]
+2 highest level followers (Class Champion[they must share a class with you])
135[1st] 13[2nd] 7[3rd] 4[4th] 2[5th] 4[6th]
x4 for Orc Warlord and Undead Leadership
540[1st] 52[2nd] 28[3rd] 16[4th] 8[5th] 16[6th]
+1 1st level follower per higher level follower (Assemble the Horde) [+120]
660[1st] 52[2nd] 28[3rd] 16[4th] 8[5th] 16[6th]

Example epic level for a leadership score of 40 (say at level 21 with +6 RP bonuses, and +13 from Cha + Str)
4816[1st] 400[2nd] 200[3rd] 100[4th] 52[5th] 28[6th] 16[7th] 8[8th] 12[9th]

[Gwazi Magnum]

Are you planning on getting to level 21? Normally you should not plan on Epic Feats unless you have a reasonable expectation to reach level 21.

Orc Warlord is still beneficial (x200% followers) but it does take 3 levels and a feats (Might makes Right) that will provide a diminishing return until Epic levels.

Epic Leadership Only requires 25 CHA & 25 leadership socre. (http://dndtools.eu/feats/epic-level-handbook--41/epic-leadership--922/)

I believe it's Legendary Commander you are thinking of. (http://dndtools.eu/feats/epic-level-handbook--41/legendary-commander--1750/)

[OldTrees1]

Epic Leadership Only requires 25 CHA & 25 leadership socre. (http://dndtools.eu/feats/epic-level-handbook--41/epic-leadership--922/)

I believe it's Legendary Commander you are thinking of. (http://dndtools.eu/feats/epic-level-handbook--41/legendary-commander--1750/)

All Epic Feats require you to be at least 21st level for only Epic characters are allowed to select epic feats.


[I edited my previous post with a feat progression to maximize the number of followers one could command]

[Gwazi Magnum]

Are you planning on getting to level 21? Normally you should not plan on Epic Feats unless you have a reasonable expectation to reach level 21.

Orc Warlord is still beneficial (x200% followers) but it does take 3 levels and a feats (Might makes Right) that will provide a diminishing return until Epic levels.


Edit:
For maximum Followers:
Classes: Orc Warlord 3
Feats:Leadership[6th], Might Makes Right[9th], Undead Leadership[12th], Assemble the Horde[15th], Class Champion[18th], Epic Leadership[21st]

Base followers pre epic
135[1st] 13[2nd] 7[3rd] 4[4th] 2[5th] 2[6th]
+2 highest level followers (Class Champion[they must share a class with you])
135[1st] 13[2nd] 7[3rd] 4[4th] 2[5th] 4[6th]
x4 for Orc Warlord and Undead Leadership
540[1st] 52[2nd] 28[3rd] 16[4th] 8[5th] 16[6th]
+1 1st level follower per higher level follower (Assemble the Horde) [+120]
660[1st] 52[2nd] 28[3rd] 16[4th] 8[5th] 16[6th]

Example epic level for a leadership score of 40
4816[1st] 400[2nd] 200[3rd] 100[4th] 52[5th] 28[6th] 16[7th] 8[8th] 12[9th]

Interesting, though where are you getting Class Champion from?
I remember seeing it once before, but looking it up gives me nothing. :/


All Epic Feats require you to be at least 21st level for only Epic characters are allowed to select epic feats.


[I edited my previous post with a feat progression to maximize the number of followers one could command]

Ok. What if I went the Kobold approach?
It counts as a dragon so I'm eligible for epic feats before level 21.
Obviously though this means skipping Orc Warlord unless if there's a cheap trick to mix the races.
However, Kobold being small and with a STR penalty probably wouldn't make a good Orc Warlord anyways.

[Mithril Leaf]

Cool. The aid another thing though doesn't stack though right?
I assume you mean the 'aid another' skill check feature?

It does stack, that's the reason you can get infinite followers. It makes a recursive loop.

[OldTrees1]

Interesting, though where are you getting Class Champion from?
I remember seeing it once before, but looking it up gives me nothing. :/



Ok. What if I went the Kobold approach?
It counts as a dragon so I'm eligible for epic feats before level 21.
Obviously though this means skipping Orc Warlord unless if there's a cheap trick to mix the races.
However, Kobold being small and with a STR penalty probably wouldn't make a good Orc Warlord anyways.

Assemble the Horde and Class Champion are from Dragon Magazine 346 pg 52-53 (I know of them through an extinct? feat database called crystalkeep) both require the Leadership feat and a Leadership score above your HD

You are already going to be using the most powerful feat (leadership) twice, be kind to your DM and don't try the invalid Kobold cheese or the equally invalid Martial Monk cheese.

Having an infinite army of vampires is less cheesy than those invalid attempts at getting epic feats.

[Gwazi Magnum]

It does stack, that's the reason you can get infinite followers. It makes a recursive loop.

So essentially in a High risk business each follower produces +100gp a month?
That can get insane very quickly... But then again, big corporation, it makes sense. :P

Thanks a lot for this. I'll tone down on it if I find it too cheesy, but this looks like the thing I need to make the business option actually viable.


Assemble the Horde and Class Champion are from Dragon Magazine 346 pg 52-53 (I know of them through an extinct? feat database called crystalkeep)

You are already going to be using the most powerful feat (leadership) twice, be kind to your DM and don't try the invalid Kobold cheese or the equally invalid Martial Monk cheese.

Thanks :)
I'll go check out crystal keep now myself. Sounds useful.

As for Kobold cheese, it's not as cheesy though as half the stuff you can do with a wizard, druid, cleric or artificer.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Having an infinite army of vampires is less cheesy than those invalid attempts at getting epic feats.

Not really infinite. I have a limited amount, and don't you suffer mass penalties if they start to die anyways?

[OldTrees1]

The infinite army is done by Rebuke Undead and does create an infinite army (chained control)

Normally called the wightocalyapse but vampires are stronger.

[Gwazi Magnum]

The infinite army is done by Rebuke Undead and does create an infinite army (chained control)

Normally called the wightocalyapse but vampires are stronger.

I'm probably going to be going Bard though so I wouldn't be using such a trick anyways.