Opinions? 3.5 Homebrew Craft Skill Variant

[dmjay]

My first crafted Item in 3.5 was in one of my first games in Alpha Team.. I hated the crafting rules. So I made these variant rules to help speed things up and allow for more RP elements in your characters life.

This systems allows for multiple sessions a day with a slight penalty after each session. I have also increase speed at which you can make money towards the final price so that instead of taking a year to make a single suit of armor, it will take only a few weeks, (if time allows it). YAY!

The regular system for crafting was doing one check per week for SP gain and in my system you can do 7-13 checks a week; essentially speeding up the crafting system tenfold!

Below is the adjusted rules for the Craft Skill and an example of crafting a suit of full plate is at the bottom.

I'm pretty confident that this way of crafting will be accepted by my group but if anyone wants to weigh in on this, lets discuss as there could be a change or two needed.


Craft Skill Foxtrot Variant (Int)
Like Knowledge, Perform, and Profession, Craft is actually a number of separate skills. You could have several Craft skills, each with its own ranks, each purchased as a separate skill. A Craft skill is specifically focused on creating something. If nothing is created by the endeavor, it probably falls under the heading of a Profession skill.

Check
You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your check result in silver pieces per day of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the craft’s daily tasks, how to supervise untrained helpers, and how to handle common problems. (Untrained laborers and assistants earn an average of 1 silver piece per day.)

The basic function of the Craft skill, however, is to allow you to make an item of the appropriate type. The DC depends on the complexity of the item to be created. The DC, your check results, and the price of the item determine how long it takes to make a particular item. The item’s finished price also determines the cost of raw materials.

In some cases, the fabricate spell can be used to achieve the results of a Craft check with no actual check involved. However, you must make an appropriate Craft check when using the spell to make articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.

A successful Craft check related to woodworking in conjunction with the casting of the ironwood spell enables you to make wooden items that have the strength of steel.

When casting the spell minor creation, you must succeed on an appropriate Craft check to make a complex item.

All crafts require artisan’s tools to give the best chance of success. If improvised tools are used, the check is made with a –2 circumstance penalty. On the other hand, masterwork artisan’s tools provide a +2 circumstance bonus on the check.

To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item, follow these steps.

Find the item’s price. Put the price in silver pieces (1 gp=10 sp).
Find the DC from the table below.
Pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials.
Your character must allow for a 6hr session per day to work on his crafting.
Make an appropriate Craft check representing one days/sessions work.

If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by (the DC + 10). If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item. (If the result × (the DC +10) equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you’ve completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) If the result × (the DC + 10) doesn’t equal the price, then it represents the progress you’ve made that day. Record the result and make a new Craft check for the next day. Each day, you make more progress until your total reaches 2/3rds the price of the item in silver pieces.
[O] If you fail a check, you make no progress this day/session. [/li]

Progress by the Session
You can make checks by the Session instead of by the day, up to a maximum of 3 session. In this case your progress (check result × (DC + 10) ) is Modified for each additional session. On the second session, your progress is (check result × (DC + 5) and you become fatigued for one day and cannot work extra sessions the following day. The third is (check result × (DC -5 ) and you now exhausted (instead of fatigued) for 30hrs due to being overworked and cannot work extra sessions per day for two days.

Creating Masterwork Items
You can make a masterwork item—a weapon, suit of armor, shield, or tool that conveys a bonus on its use through its exceptional craftsmanship, not through being magical. To create a masterwork item, you create the masterwork component as if it were a separate item in addition to the standard item. The masterwork component has its own price (300 gp for a weapon or 150 gp for a suit of armor or a shield) and a Craft DC of 20. Once both the standard component and the masterwork component are completed, the masterwork item is finished. Note: The cost you pay for the masterwork component is one-third of the given amount, just as it is for the cost in raw materials.


Item Craft Skill Craft DC
Acid Alchemy 15
Alchemist's fire, smokestick, or tindertwig Alchemy 20
Antitoxin, sunrod, tanglefoot bag, or thunderstone Alchemy 25
Armor or shield Armor 10 + AC bonus
Longbow, shortbow, or arrows Bows 12
Composite longbow or composite shortbow Bows 15
Composite longbow or composite shortbow with high strength rating Bows 15 + (2 × rating)
Mechanical trap Traps Varies*
Crossbow, or bolts Weapons 15
Simple melee or thrown weapon Weapons 12
Martial melee or thrown weapon Weapons 15
Exotic melee or thrown weapon Weapons 18
Very simple item (wooden spoon) Varies 5
Typical item (iron pot) Varies 10
High-quality item (bell) Varies 15
Complex or superior item (lock) Varies 20
* Traps have their own rules for construction

Special Bonuses

A dwarf has a +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal, because dwarves are especially capable with stonework and metalwork.
A gnome has a +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks because gnomes have sensitive noses.

You may voluntarily add +10 to the indicated DC to craft an item. This allows you to create the item more quickly (since you’ll be multiplying this higher DC by your Craft check result to determine progress). You must decide whether to increase the DC before you make each daily session check.

To make an item using Craft (alchemy), you must have alchemical equipment and be a spellcaster. If you are working in a city, you can buy what you need as part of the raw materials cost to make the item, but alchemical equipment is difficult or impossible to come by in some places. Purchasing and maintaining an alchemist’s lab grants a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks because you have the perfect tools for the job, but it does not affect the cost of any items made using the skill.

To make an item using Craft (Weapon/Armorsmithing), you must have the proper tools and equipment. If you are working in a city, you can buy what you need as part of the raw materials cost to make the item, but there are some special equipment that is difficult or impossible to come by in some places. Purchasing and maintaining your own Blacksmith or Armorer’s shop grants a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft (Weapon/Armorsmithing) checks because you have the perfect tools for the job, but it does not affect the cost of any items made using the skill.

You can hire a team of assistants, if in a city/town to assist you with your crafting. 1GP per session will hire 5 people to work extra hard to help you. Doing this will grant you an additional +2 circumstance bonus on you Craft Skill. This bonus will stack with owning a Lab or Shop as mentioned above.


EXAMPLE:
For this example I will start crafting a new suit of Masterwork Full Plate Armor using two 6 hr sessions in a single day at my workshop in the city with a hired team of assistants. My Craft Armorsmithing Skill is +8 for this example.

Find the item’s price (1,650GP). Put the price in silver pieces (1,650 gp=16,500 sp).
Find the DC from the table below. (AC=+8 so DC is 10 + 8=DC18)
Pay one-third of the item’s total price for the cost of raw materials. (16,500 / 3=5,500 sp )
Your character must allow for a 6hr session per day to work on his crafting. (Doing Two Sessions, 12hr day!)
Make an appropriate Craft check representing two sessions in one days work.

So, Since I have my shop (+2) and my assistants (+2) and my craft skill (+8) I have a total of +12. I pay the 5500 sp for material (this is included towards the total price of the crafted item). So now I roll 1d20+12 on my first session and lets say I rolled a 10. 10+12=24 vs the DC of 18 is a pass. Now, I multiply my first session (DC18 + 10) 28 by my result, 24 and I just made 672 sp towards the total price.

My second session I do the same but now I roll 1d20+12 lets say I rolled an 8. 8+12=20 vs the DC of 18 is a pass. Now, I multiply my second session (DC18 + 5) 23 by my result, 20 and I just made 460 sp towards the total price.

672 + 460=1,132 sp made the first day. 1,132 + 5,500=6,632 SP total towards the total price has been produced via Craft skill.

[Invader]

Probably better in the home brew forums.

[Gazzien]

Your example uses two sessions per day, except that you say in the description that you can't use additional sessions the day after a two-session day.

[Naomi Li]

I would note that crafting is, even originally, an exponential system. A particularly good dedicated crafter would probably be making checks of 30, 40, or even 50 (with the DCs voluntarily increased to match) that would result in 45 gp/week, 80 gp/week, 125 gp/week. The legendary crafters would have 23 skill ranks, a masterwork crafter's tool, a +20 competence item, skill focus, the +2/+2 feat, take ten, and probably several other feats from 3.5 I don't remember resulting in checks of at least 60, plus intelligence modifier and whatever other bonuses you can find. (Plenty of assistants giving +2 aid another modifiers, perhaps?)

Another easy fix would be adding a crafting speed multiplier to items like adamantine and mithal. (They're harder to work than steel, but not THAT much harder) which are probably the biggest issues.

Backporting a few crafting enhancers from Pathfinder is a possibility, too. (All skill boosting feats double in effectiveness at... 13 skill ranks for 3.5, spell "crafter's fortune" boosts next craft check made within (caster level days) by 5...)

[dmjay]

Your example uses two sessions per day, except that you say in the description that you can't use additional sessions the day after a two-session day.

My example uses just the first initial day. The following day would only allow for a single session.

Edit: Sessions are 6 hr blocks. player must have time in the day to do such.

If a player had four weeks/or 28 days to work on crafting, it work out something like this if they chose:

3_ 1_ 1_ 3_ 1_ 1_ 3_ First week (13 sessions)
1_ 1_ 2_ 1_ 2_ 1_ 2_ Second week (10 sessions)
1_ 3_ 1_ 1_ 3_ 1_ 1_ Third week (11 sessions)
1_ 1_ 1_ 1_ 1_ 1_ 1_ Fourth week (7 session)


I would note that crafting is, even originally, an exponential system. A particularly good dedicated crafter would probably be making checks of 30, 40, or even 50 (with the DCs voluntarily increased to match) that would result in 45 gp/week, 80 gp/week, 125 gp/week. The legendary crafters would have 23 skill ranks, a masterwork crafter's tool, a +20 competence item, skill focus, the +2/+2 feat, take ten, and probably several other feats from 3.5 I don't remember resulting in checks of at least 60, plus intelligence modifier and whatever other bonuses you can find. (Plenty of assistants giving +2 aid another modifiers, perhaps?)

Another easy fix would be adding a crafting speed multiplier to items like adamantine and mithal. (They're harder to work than steel, but not THAT much harder) which are probably the biggest issues.

Backporting a few crafting enhancers from Pathfinder is a possibility, too. (All skill boosting feats double in effectiveness at... 13 skill ranks for 3.5, spell "crafter's fortune" boosts next craft check made within (caster level days) by 5...) .

It is true that it is exponential but in games where players want to craft but not dedicate their players skill point and feats to that particular skill set, this allows them to still basic create items within a shorter amount of time, which is slightly more realistic. I may slightly adjust the modifiers for the NPC's in my worlds that are catered to blacksmithing or alchemy so that ultimate master crafters cant make something in a snap of their fingers.

I personally have never played in a game or known anyone to play a character that has taken all their feats dumped all their skill points towards their crafting skills. I know you could potentially make an uber crafter but the games I currently run are extended campaign running from lvl 1 to (hopefully) Epic levels and most of the players are working to making OP characters to take out the BBEG. I created the system so that they could craft if the wanted to without having to dump into the skills.

If this system does allow for someone to create to quickly, then maybe I should remove the 3rd session option and reduce the + 10 bonus to a +5. Something I may think about.

[dmjay]

I have requested this thread be moved to homebrew.

[Naomi Li]

The feats are actually only responsible for a small part of that ludicrously high result. The skill ranks, competence boosting item, and taking ten are the largest modifiers by far. And if you're allowed to hire a large number of assistants to aid them (getting them to pass a DC 10 check 100% of the time isn't all that difficult) even those numbers can be dwarfed.

One change I thought of just now is allowing for crafters to have up to their skill ranks in the crafting skills in assistants providing aid another checks. (They still need to hire them, but this sets an easy standard for how many they could hire without constant DM arbitration) This would be a fair system (applying to PC and NPC alike) that PCs are in better position to take advantage of due to their ludicrously huge amounts of income from adventuring that they can afford to spend hiring assistants, trading profit margin for time. (They might even end up making more money per day, I haven't run the numbers) A good cost to hire might be "how much the assistants could earn on their own instead of aiding this person, plus the incentive money".

[dmjay]

I liked what you said about basing a bonus off what their skill check might be. So I've made a few adjustments thus far. Changes are colored.

Craft Skill Variant (Int)
Like Knowledge, Perform, and Profession, Craft is actually a number of separate skills. You could have several Craft skills, each with its own ranks, each purchased as a separate skill. A Craft skill is specifically focused on creating something. If nothing is created by the endeavor, it probably falls under the heading of a Profession skill.

Check
You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your check result in silver pieces per day of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the craft’s daily tasks, how to supervise untrained helpers, and how to handle common problems. (Untrained laborers and assistants earn an average of 1 silver piece per day.)

The basic function of the Craft skill, however, is to allow you to make an item of the appropriate type. The DC depends on the complexity of the item to be created. The DC, your check results, and the price of the item determine how long it takes to make a particular item. The item’s finished price also determines the cost of raw materials.

In some cases, the fabricate spell can be used to achieve the results of a Craft check with no actual check involved. However, you must make an appropriate Craft check when using the spell to make articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.

A successful Craft check related to woodworking in conjunction with the casting of the ironwood spell enables you to make wooden items that have the strength of steel.

When casting the spell minor creation, you must succeed on an appropriate Craft check to make a complex item.

All crafts require artisan’s tools to give the best chance of success. If improvised tools are used, the check is made with a –2 circumstance penalty. On the other hand, masterwork artisan’s tools provide a +2 circumstance bonus on the check.

To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item, follow these steps.
Find the item’s price. Put the price in silver pieces (1 gp=10 sp).
Find the DC from the table below.
Pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials.
Your character must allow for a 6hr session per day to work on his crafting.
Make an appropriate Craft check representing one days/sessions work.

If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by (the DC + Assistant Modifier). If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item. (If the result ×(the DC + Assistant Modifier) equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you’ve completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) If the result × (the DC + Assistant Modifier) doesn’t equal the price, then it represents the progress you’ve made that day. Record the result and make a new Craft check for the next day. Each day, you make more progress until your total reaches the full price of the item in silver pieces. If you fail a check, you make no progress this day/session. [/color]

Progress by the Session
You can make checks by the session instead of by the day, up to a maximum of two sessions per day. In this case your progress (check result × (the DC + Assistant Modifier) ) is Modified for each additional session. On the second session, your progress is (check result × (Half the DC + Assistant Modifier)) and you become fatigued for two days and cannot do second sessions during that time.

Creating Masterwork Items
You can make a masterwork item—a weapon, suit of armor, shield, or tool that conveys a bonus on its use through its exceptional craftsmanship, not through being magical. To create a masterwork item, just add the price of the masterwork component (300 gp for a weapon or 150 gp for a suit of armor or a shield) to the items total price.


Item Craft Skill Craft DC (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:DC)

Acid (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Acid) Alchemy1 15

Alchemist’s fire (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Alchemist%27s_Fire"s Fire), smokestick (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Smokestick), or tindertwig (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Tindertwig) Alchemy1 20

Antitoxin (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Antitoxin), sunrod (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Sunrod), tanglefoot bag (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Tanglefoot_Bag), or thunderstone (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Thunderstone) Alchemy1 25

Armor or shield (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Armor) Armorsmithing 10 + AC (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:AC) bonus

Longbow (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Longbow) or shortbow (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Shortbow) Bowmaking 12

Composite longbow (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Composite_Longbow) or composite shortbow (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Composite_Shortbow) Bowmaking 15

Composite longbow (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Composite_Longbow) or composite shortbow (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Composite_Shortbow) with high strength rating Bowmaking 15 + (2 x rating)

Crossbow (heavy (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Heavy_Crossbow) or light (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Light_Crossbow)) Weaponsmithing 15

Simple melee or thrown weapon (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Simple_Weapon) Weaponsmithing 12

Martial melee or thrown weapon (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Martial_Weapon) Weaponsmithing 15

Exotic melee or thrown weapon (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Exotic_Weapon) Weaponsmithing 18

Mechanical trap (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Traps) Trapmaking Varies2

Very simple item (wooden spoon) Varies 5

Typical item (iron pot) Varies 10

High-quality item (bell) Varies 15

Complex or superior item (lock) Varies 20

1. You must be a spellcaster to craft any of these items.2. Traps have their own rules for construction.[/size]

Special Bonuses

A dwarf has a +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal, because dwarves are especially capable with stonework and metalwork.
A gnome has a +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks because gnomes have sensitive noses.

You may voluntarily add +10 to the indicated DC to craft an item. This allows you to create the item more quickly (since you’ll be multiplying this higher DC by your Craft check result to determine progress). You must decide whether to increase the DC before you make each daily session check.

To make an item using Craft (alchemy), you must have alchemical equipment and be a spellcaster. If you are working in a city, you can buy what you need as part of the raw materials cost to make the item, but alchemical equipment is difficult or impossible to come by in some places. Purchasing and maintaining an alchemist’s lab grants a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks because you have the perfect tools for the job, but it does not affect the cost of any items made using the skill.

To make an item using Craft (Weapon/Armorsmithing), you must have the proper tools and equipment. If you are working in a city, you can buy what you need as part of the raw materials cost to make the item, but there are some special equipment that is difficult or impossible to come by in some places. Purchasing and maintaining your own Blacksmith or Armorer’s shop grants a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft (Weapon/Armorsmithing) checks because you have the perfect tools for the job, but it does not affect the cost of any items made using the skill.

Assistant Modifier
You can hire a team of assistants if you are in a city, town or village. They can assist you with your crafting depending and the max bonus they give you dependent of your crafting skill. Each assistant costs 1gp for the session but will help you get the job done faster.


# of Assistants, Cost per Session, Min Skill Req, Modifier to Progress DC, (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:DC)

1, 1 GP, +1 , +1 ,

2, 2 GP, +3 , +2 ,

3, 3 GP, +5 , +6 ,

4, 4 GP, +8 , +8 ,

5, 5 GP, +12 , +10 ,

10, 10 GP, +20 , +15 ,


EXAMPLE:
For this example I will start crafting a new suit of Masterwork Full Plate Armor using a full two 6 hr sessions in a single day at my workshop in the city with maximum hired team of assistants for both sessions. I am also taking 10 on my first session to speed things up. My Craft Armorsmithing Skill is +8 for this example. After this day, i am considered fatigued and can only have one session for the next two days.

Find the item’s price (1,650GP). Put the price in silver pieces (1,650 gp=16,500 sp).
Find the DC from the table below. (AC = +8 so DC is 10 + 8 = DC18)
Pay one-third of the item’s total price for the cost of raw materials. (16,500 / 3 = 5,500 sp )
Your character must allow for a 6hr session per day to work on his crafting. (Doing Two Sessions, 12hr day!)
Make an appropriate Craft check representing two sessions in one days work.
So, I have my shop (+2) and my craft skill (+8) I have a total of +10. I pay the 5500 sp for materials. So now I roll 1d20+10 on my first session and lets say I rolled a 19. 19+10 = 29 vs the DC of 18+10=DC28 is a pass. Now, I multiply my first session (DC28 + Assistant modifier +8) 36 by my result, 29 and I just made 1044 sp towards the total final price. The +8 assistant modifier cost me 8gp that session which i pay out of pocket.

My second session I do the same but now I roll 1d20+10 lets say I rolled an 8. 8+12 = 20 vs the DC of 18 is a pass. Now, I multiply my second session (half the DC + Assistant modifier which is DC9 + 8) 17 by my result, 20 and I just made 340 sp towards the total price. I also spend 8gp out of pocket for the assistants.

1044 + 340 = 1,384 sp made the first day and 1,132 sp total towards the total price has been produced via Craft skill.

Thoughts?