[PF] Blind

[Zeromage1]

Am I reading something wrong, or is this spell insanely overpowered? I keep seeing every guide recommending Color Spray but Blind seems a hundred times more useful. What am I missing here?

Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target one living creature
Duration permanent (D)
Saving Throw Fortitude negates; Spell Resistance yes
You call upon the powers of unlife to render the subject blinded or deafened, as you choose.

This affects any creature, no matter how many HD? This seems crazy powerful.

[Hamste]

It's a third level spell (second for wizard) which targets only one creature which is the main reason color spray is suggested over it. Plus stunned is pretty nice.

That being said it is a great spell the choice between a 50% miss chance (plus sneak attacks galore) or 20% arcane spell failure chance makes this both versatile and fun while being relatively cheap for wizards to cast.

[MonochromeTiger]

well it's kind of situational, as a level 2 spell there's not that high of a roll needed to save from it for some characters, plus the fact that it affects one creature means you'd need to spend multiple level 2 spell slots in order to blind or deafen multiple targets. you'd also have to use the spell twice on one target to get all the benefit you can out of the spell. meanwhile when you're staying still focusing on one enemy at a time the rest of them are flanking you because you're being an obvious caster and you have no guarantee that they don't have something capable of removing the effect on their team.

[Lord Vukodlak]

For the first five or six levels I'd say Color Spray is the most powerful spell in the game, it effects an area and can effectively remove several combatants from an encounter at once. Until your average mook enemy has 5HD or more color spray is going to be more effective then blindness/deafnesss.

[Psyren]

Not "any" creature - it's useless vs. constructs or undead.

But what you're seeing is the reason that fortitude is the highest save for most monsters - a failed fortitude save can end many encounters.

[Barstro]

My big problem with the spell is that it is permanent. This doesn't really affect NPCs, as even 1 round/lvl will end the fight, but it is devastating for PCs. Cure Blindness/Deafness was my first pick as soon as I could get it.

In my limited experience it has been an over-powered spell for my Witch, and I try to use it only sparingly.

[Psyren]

You don't need such specialized counters - remember that "permanent" duration means the magic is still active, so you can spam dispel magic (which almost every caster has) and eventually remove it.

[Zeromage1]

Color Spray is good but it's not as effective against monsters with higher HD. Blind works on any HD. It seems crazy that a such a low level player can affect any HD monster like that. Fighting a blind creature has been very easy in my experience. Between that and Grease our Sorcerer just dominates every battle now and we're only 4th level.

[MonochromeTiger]

Color Spray is good but it's not as effective against monsters with higher HD. Blind works on any HD. It seems crazy that a such a low level player can affect any HD monster like that. Fighting a blind creature has been very easy in my experience. Between that and Grease our Sorcerer just dominates every battle now and we're only 4th level.

the thing to comment on in this is "and we're only 4th level". the higher level you get the more chance an encounter will have of being able to stop, counter, or prevent your use of effects like blind/deafen. also continued reliance on it to make fights easier tends to make DMs a bit spiteful that you're simply breezing through their work with one ability which leads to the most common cause of PC death I've seen, "intentionally one sided fight". what works at early levels doesn't always stay effective at higher ones and if the DM is really spiteful they can and will use your own guaranteed win tactic against you.

[Fax Celestis]

Color Spray is good but it's not as effective against monsters with higher HD. Blind works on any HD. It seems crazy that a such a low level player can affect any HD monster like that. Fighting a blind creature has been very easy in my experience. Between that and Grease our Sorcerer just dominates every battle now and we're only 4th level.

Sure, but it has a terrible save DC: 12 + INT for a wizard, so if you get to around, say, 15th level, it has a DC of...well, let's be generous and call it 20.

CR 15 creatures' fort saves, based on a random sampling:
Very Old Black Dragon: Fort +18 (5%, only fails on a 1)
Toshigami Kami: Fort +11 (45%, fails on 9 or less)
Tataka Rakshasa: Fort +18 (5%, only fails on a 1)
Phoenix: Fort +17 (10%, fails on a 1 or 2)
Jotund Troll: Fort +16 (15%, fails on 3 or less)
Xacarba: Fort +17 (10%, fails on a 1 or 2)

So barring one specific instance, you have an extremely low chance of hitting.

Now let's compare to a DC 19 color spray, which targets Will, not Fort:
Very Old Black Dragon: Will +16 (20%, fails on 4 or less)
Toshigami Kami: Will +16 (20%, fails on 4 or less)
Tataka Rakshasa: Will +12 (40%, fails on 8 or less)
Phoenix: Will +14 (30%, fails on 6 or less)
Jotund Troll: Will +17 (15%, fails on 3 or less; would be more if the jotund troll didn't get a +4 vs mind-affecting)
Xacarba: Will +20 (5%, only fails on a 1)

So, even with the DC being one point lower (as it's a lower level spell), color spray still has a better chance of hitting. The stunned condition is one of the most powerful conditions in the game and is really only resisted via type immunities. Blindness is powerful, sure, but it can be overcome, and with abilities that creatures in higher levels frequently possess (blindsight, blindsense, tremorsense, lifesight, synesthete...).

[Slipperychicken]

You don't need such specialized counters - remember that "permanent" duration means the magic is still active, so you can spam dispel magic (which almost every caster has) and eventually remove it.

Seconding this. Don't pick up Remove Blindness as a spell known if your spell selection is limited (i.e. you aren't a Wizard). Dispel Magic will do just fine, and a scroll or two of Remove Blindness should be more than sufficient for a campaign.

[Hamste]

Sure, but it has a terrible save DC: 12 + INT for a wizard, so if you get to around, say, 15th level, it has a DC of...well, let's be generous and call it 20.

CR 15 creatures' fort saves, based on a random sampling:
Very Old Black Dragon: Fort +18 (5%, only fails on a 1)
Toshigami Kami: Fort +11 (45%, fails on 9 or less)
Tataka Rakshasa: Fort +18 (5%, only fails on a 1)
Phoenix: Fort +17 (10%, fails on a 1 or 2)
Jotund Troll: Fort +16 (15%, fails on 3 or less)
Xacarba: Fort +17 (10%, fails on a 1 or 2)

So barring one specific instance, you have an extremely low chance of hitting.

Now let's compare to a DC 19 color spray, which targets Will, not Fort:
Very Old Black Dragon: Will +16 (20%, fails on 4 or less)
Toshigami Kami: Will +16 (20%, fails on 4 or less)
Tataka Rakshasa: Will +12 (40%, fails on 8 or less)
Phoenix: Will +14 (30%, fails on 6 or less)
Jotund Troll: Will +17 (15%, fails on 3 or less; would be more if the jotund troll didn't get a +4 vs mind-affecting)
Xacarba: Will +20 (5%, only fails on a 1)

So, even with the DC being one point lower (as it's a lower level spell), color spray still has a better chance of hitting. The stunned condition is one of the most powerful conditions in the game and is really only resisted via type immunities. Blindness is powerful, sure, but it can be overcome, and with abilities that creatures in higher levels frequently possess (blindsight, blindsense, tremorsense, lifesight, synesthete...).

Color spray is mind effecting so that cuts out a lot and it is save or be stunned for a turn...not*exactly the greatest use of actions after a certain level unless if you face a lot of mooks. It's main use still comes in before you reach level 5 in my mind and then it just becomes a spell to use if we ever get incredibly screwed over.