paladin caster level [3.5]

[Raezeman]

Yo
one of my players is a paladin and seems out powered by the others. They are now level 4, so he get's spells for the first time and i've checked his spell list a bit to see what's up with that. Then i noticed: paladin caster level is halve paladin class level! That seems a bit week to be honest. I mean, greater magic weapon gives a nice bonus, but with paladin at level 20, it gives a full +2 to attack and damage! If not wielding a magic weapon at all that is, because enhancement bonus...
So i was thinking to houserule the caster level of a paladin to be equal to his paladin level. Is this a good idea or not? Please, give me your opinion? (i'm rather new at DMing, and never had a paladin group member as a player)

[Killer Angel]

The casting part of the pally, as written, is pityful. Any reasonable houserule improvement is welcome.

[RustyArmor]

Paladin in itself is a weak class so giving it full caster level seems alright depending on what every one is might want to even give it more spells.

In one game we played most of the group was tier one and two classes so I gave the pally bard spell progression and a list of divine based spells which seem to at least let him hold his own a little compared to others.

[Ivanhoe]

Do not forget that the paladin class is much more than its spellcasting. If you and the player (and the rest of the group) feel that the spellcasting is disappointing, just let the player redo the paladin to be a cleric (and thus full spellcaster). A lawful good cleric is quite close in fluff to a lawful good paladin (including heavy armour and that knightly image!).

[Gwendol]

Yo
one of my players is a paladin and seems out powered by the others. They are now level 4, so he get's spells for the first time and i've checked his spell list a bit to see what's up with that. Then i noticed: paladin caster level is halve paladin class level! That seems a bit week to be honest. I mean, greater magic weapon gives a nice bonus, but with paladin at level 20, it gives a full +2 to attack and damage! If not wielding a magic weapon at all that is, because enhancement bonus...
So i was thinking to houserule the caster level of a paladin to be equal to his paladin level. Is this a good idea or not? Please, give me your opinion? (i'm rather new at DMing, and never had a paladin group member as a player)

I don't think that will change much. Your player should use his paladin spells wisely, and get the feat Battle Blessing asap. Bless weapon is generally a much better spell for a paladin than is magic weapon.

[Raezeman]

Maybe if i give some detail about the rest of the group (all level 4):
Fighter with 1 level barbarian, 2 handed power attack, main damage dealer so far, only one that actually researches feats and stuff.
Rogue, no optimizing
sorcerer, no optimizing
druid with dire badger companion, no optimizing
The paladin this thread is about.

[Studoku]

A paladin should perform fine in the group you've described. The problem is it doesn't sound like it's the class you want to play- their spellcasting really is lousy.

If you're allowed to rebuild your character, a lawful good cleric with the war domain can perform the same role (as healer/buffer/melee) and still have decent casting.

Look into the Ordained Champion PrC (Complete Champion) if you want to be more fighty. By level 10 you'll have BAB 9, CL 8 and plenty of combat based abilities. There's also Prestige Paladin which will lose you caster levels but gets you Paladin class features. Take as many levels as you need to get the features you want for paladinining and go back to cleric.

[admiralWillyWil]

Also add you could tweak weapons or armor. Simple weapons except favored diety weapon, or medium or light armor instead. Again got to weaken somewhere to balance this out.

[Gnaeus]

Full caster level isn't too much. If you are worried, CL -2 is better than half but not quite full. The only player in group whose class is on paladin level is the fighter and his advantage in optimization will keep him ok.

As an alternative to "play a cleric" the pathfinder paladin is easily imported and pretty decent

[remetagross]

Paladin has a lot of excellent spells that do not care for caster level: Rhino's Rush, Resurgence, Swift Bless Weapon, Devastating Smite...

Tell your player to take the time to dig into the 1st-level Paladin spell list: there are not that much of them (78 in total, less if you restrict certain rulebooks) but they contain real gems.

Also, as Gwendol has mentioned, have your player take a look at the excellent Battle Blessing feat from Complete Champion. It will quicken all of his spells for free.

Early paladin casting should be seen, to my mind, as a way to spend your swift actions during a fight, not as something to do between battles or even pre-battle. Once your player starts to gain a little more spell slots, his caster level will be decent enough for one or two pre-battle castings.

One last suggestion: the 4th-level Mystic Fire Knight Paladin substitution level from Champions of Valor. It's linked to Faerûn and Mystra, but I guess as the DM you can offer that to him as a setting-neutral alternate class feature. It has the following effects: your player loses Turn Undead and his HD (for this level only) turns to a d8 instead of a d10. However, his caster level is now (Paladin/2 +2) instead of (Paladin/2), and he gets an extra spell slot of each spell level he can cast as if from a high Wisdom score. Which means his caster level is now 4 instead of 2, and he gets 1 1st-level spell +1 per a high Wisdom, instead of 0+1.
Losing Turn Undead is usually annoying because a lot of good feats and effects can be powered by that, but given the optimization level of your party, it seems unlikely your Paladin player will decide to select any of these, so that's not too bad a trade-off.

[Biggus]

Raising Paladin (and Ranger) caster level is a great idea. It doesn't matter so much at low levels, but at high levels they're incredibly vulnerable to dispelling, and a lot of their best spells are buffs.

In Pathfinder they changed it to class level minus three, but making it full class level certainly won't overpower them.

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Thead closed.