Kerim
2013-11-25, 01:50 PM
(Yeah, I know, in a fair amount of builds charisma isn't really all too useful, and it's perfectly okay to dump it. I just like it at least mediocre at worst.)
Anyways, without further ado, my character:
It started off as basically 'I want to try out playing an Incubus once.', then 'I want to make him as cha-based as possible.', which coincided with 'I want to boost his Cha as high as possible'. Which, in the end, turned into 'OH MY HOLY ****ING CRAP THIS GUY IS POWERFUL.'
The original build uses mainly 3.5, but a feat and a class level, (well, three, but one can be substituted for a 3.5 one with ease) from PF, and a few items and racial stuff from 3rd party books which likely not be allowed at the table. (Yeah, who knew, the sexual 3.5 book has the best stuff to boost your charisma. Who knew?)
But, for those with less lenient DMs, I'll also be posting some proposed changes you could use to make your character using a less wide array of resources available. (At a later date, if people want to see it) For those who want to look at irregular stuff from the current list: Bolded means that I'm signifying a non-3.5 WotC book.
First, though, credit where credit is due, a thread that helped a lot while creating this character: The Stat X to Y bonus thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732)
Also, various google searches on 'ways to increase charisma.
Ingredients:
The base/the Race:
Firesouled (Mainly for +4 cha and leadership. Fire type is neat. LA is bought off.)
Magic-blooded (-2 wis, +2 cha)
Unseelie Fey (Nice bonus for just about any character. +2 cha. Turns type into Fey if Savage Species type pyramid isn't used.)
Savage Species Incubus (For 12 levels a whopping bonus of +16 charisma, the second highest modifier from a single source, and the most reliable. Also, a 10% chance per day of summoning a balor. What's not to like?)
Of Lust (Creature of Lust, from Encyclopaedia Arcana -> Nymphology. Most of the book is rather immature stuff, but it's quite nice for a LA 0 +4 cha template. Turns type back into Outsider.)
Total: +28 charisma.
The filling/The Classes:
(As per level 20. Pick and choose what options you want if starting on an earlier level.)
Of course, the first 12 levels HAVE to be Succubus, as per the Savage Species rules you have to finish a monster class you take.
After that, I got:
Battledancer 1. (Cha to AC. May want to use Ascetic Chaos Monk if DM doesn't allow Battledancer to count as a monk for certain abilities. (See item section))
Oracle 1-> Lore Mystery -> Sidestep Secret revelation ((PATHFINDER)Exchange Dexterity with Cha for Reflex Saves and AC bonus.)
Antipaladin/Paladin of Slaughter 2 (Cha to all saves, or, if you use one of the Paladin ACF's, Cha to AC. I used cha to saves, though, since my total AC will already be through the roof.)
Marshal 1 (Motivate Fortitude, or any other save you don't think is high enough.)
Warlock 1 (Dark ones' Own Luck, at will choice of CHA to any one save.)
Blackguard 2 (Dark Blessing, another time your Cha bonus to all saves.)
This ends you with: the great many special abilities that are of no extraordinary use to us from most of the classes, which you can find out yourself.)
Cha to AC twice, once as an Untyped bonus, one to replace Dexterity.
Charisma to all saves twice, from two untyped bonuses.
In addition: Charisma to replace Dexterity for reflex saves.
A choice of one additional save to add Charisma to, as per your choice.
A choice of one additional save to add charisma to, for you and everyone in a 60 foot radius, set in stone at the first level of Marshal you gain. Can be improved for versatility, but is probably not worth it.
+5 from levelups.
The cherries/The feats:
I have more, but these are the ones that are the more important ones to the build:
Leadership. You will always have max Leadership level, no matter how huge of a **** you are. Also used to attract an Artificer cohort, to supply all your magic items. (I got them down to about 10% cost price, maybe someone can get it even lower.)
Noble Scion of War. (Pathfinder) Adds your Cha to Initiative instead of Dexterity.
Succubi's Kiss (Vile equivalent of Nymph's kiss). Of course, will likely be no'd, even if the rest of the build by some miracle is found to be okay. +2 to all charisma-related CHECKS, which, because of the rest of your abilities, will be just about all of them.
Quicken SLA (BoVD version.) You have a fair butt-load of Spell-like abilities. Using any one of them as a quickened one 1/day is neat. Otherwise, I'd likely suggest one of your more powerful Succubus abilities to use it on. Ethereal Jaunt or Teleport Without error, should the DM try and use rocks fall everyone dies on you. (As well he should. :smallwink: Still, I'm posting this here, it'll be my fault. So go ahead, you have my blessing, try it out.)
Keen Intellect: Int to Will saves instead of Wis. I dumped Wisdom as much as I could, so this is what I used to make up for it. You will also get quite some bonus Int due to something later. If you want another huge boost, though, use:
Force of Personality: Charisma to Mind-affecting Will saves. So all but a handfull of will-affecting abilities.
Which gives you:
Cohort and a load of followers
Cha to Initiative.
+4 charisma for purpose of variable checks. (+2 bonus modifier.)
Int or cha to most if not all will saves.
The Sprinkles/The items:
The, in my opinion, highest valued item is the Rod of Repression. It is found in the BoEF, and thus has a large chance of being disallowed, but if you can find willing creatures. (You've got the charisma to convince them), or just a lot of unwilling ones, you can use this rod to drain 1d6 damage of a creatures, for a will save DC of 20, up to a total of 5d6 per day. It will give you an average of a 17.5 bonus, and if you really need it, you can wait until a day you get the full 30 Charisma bonus.
The second best, is the Stormwreck Admirals Bicorne. In addition to giving an aura bonus to attack, saves, and some other stuff, it also gives a +5 bonus to charisma related checks. Let me repeat that, +5 bonus. Which is basically a slightly limited +10 untyped bonus to Charisma.
Some other items/item combos:
Tome of Leadership +5 for obvious reasons.
Belt of Magnificence for the same.
Slippers of Battledancing/Sparring Dummy of the Master. This is what you need a monk, or battledancer that is allowed to count as monk for. Slippers of Battledancing allow you to use your Charisma bonus to Attack and Damage for as long as you move 10 ft or more in a round. Sparring dummy of the master allows you to take 10ft steps instead of 5ft ones. I hope you can already see what the bonus is, if not, let me tell you.
CHARISMA FUELED FULL ATTACK.
Thank you.
Horseshoes of Flame/Phylactery of Change (Or any other item of at least 3/day polymorph) Using UMD to make it think you're a horse. May require some painful surgery, or saying that Incubi naturally have goat hooves as is depicted in some lore.
And the untyped +6 bonus to Charisma and +10 bonus to Intelligence make it really, really worth it.
Also invest in a Phylactery of Change, or some other item you can preferably activate while a horse to turn you back into your incubus form. Yes, you can use your change self ability from your succubus/incubus level to look humanoid, but sometimes you just want to look like yourself.
(*Note: This might also help not make your magic items look ridiculous, as turning into the nightmare form melds them into your body, and turning back into an incubus doesn't have to bring them back outside it, I believe.)
Item of Continuous Devil's Ego. +4 profane bonus to Cha, plus some other bonuses.
Item of continuous Righteous Aura. +4 Sacred bonus to Cha, plus some other bonus upon death, which shouldn't happen to you.
(Nowhere is it stated Demons can't have sacred bonuses.)
Item of Sirene's Grace, which gives you a bonus to cha and dex made worthless by your belt, but gives you a Deflection Bonus to your AC equal to your charisma modifier.
Pay for a casting of Mantle of the Icy Soul on you. You now have both the fire (from Firesouled), and Cold template, making you immune to both.
The graft giving you fast healing. If they get past your AC and saves somehow you're a bit fragile.
Which gives you:
A total of a +25 bonus to charisma at all times.
Another +10 bonus to effective charisma for variable rolls. (+5 bonus)
A daily changing Cha bonus of between 5 and 30.
A nearly always available possibility of using your Charisma for Attack and Damage rolls.
Deflection Bonus to AC equal to your Charisma.
The total of these feats, items, classes, and races. (The traits and flaws don't really matter for this)
18 base charisma. (Saying you're lucky.)
+28 race
+5 class levels.
+25 items.
+5/30 Rod of Repression.
For a total of between 81 and 106.
In addition, you gain another effective +14 charisma from Succubi's Kiss and Admirals' Bicorne in effects to variable rolls, so anything but Save DCs and AC.
so a 120 charisma maximum, if you count that.
This massive modifier. (+48 at best, which will be what I will use), you can apply:
Twice to all saves. (Paladin of Slaughter and Blackguard)
An additional time to Reflex (Oracle)
Possibly an additional time to Will. (Force of Personality.)
A save chosen once, then set in stone for the rest of the time. (Marshal)
A save chosen at will. (Warlock)
To Initiative (Noble Scion of War)
Thrice to AC:
Once replacing DEX (Oracle)
Once as an untyped bonus. (Battledancer/Ascetic Chaos Monk)
Once as a deflection bonus. (Sirene's Grace)
Used for attack and damage (Most of the time. Slippers of Battledancing.)
Also, your save DC's will be HUGE. And your spellcasting classes will grant you a load of bonus spells.
For a total of, on your best days, and not counting anything except what your charisma grants you.
+55 Inititative
AC of 154 without counting Natural Armour, or any other bonuses. AC of 106 when you're flatfooted.
+165 reflex.
+110 fortitude. +165 if, like me, you took Demand Fortitude.
+110 will. +165 against mind-affecting if Force of Personality is chosen.
+55 bonus you can throw upon any save you think it is necessary for.
+55 bonus to Attack and Damage if you move 10 ft or more, where BAB is added to.
DC of 58 on cantrips.
The rod of repression and the horseshoes of flame are noncontinuous, so they don't count for spells.
However, without that, and therefore a Cha of 70, should give you either 7 or 8, not entirely sure, level 1 bonus spells.
(Might put up the full sheet some time later)
--------------------
Well, that was my build. Could anyone look over it and see if there is anything that might be incompatible with other things that I missed?
And yes, he does have the highest saves and AC of any non-infinite loop D&D creature that I could find, at least.
Also, I want to know two other things: What are his weaknesses? How would you defeat such a creature as this one?
And: Do you have any more ideas for things that could boost his cha-based powers?
Anyways, without further ado, my character:
It started off as basically 'I want to try out playing an Incubus once.', then 'I want to make him as cha-based as possible.', which coincided with 'I want to boost his Cha as high as possible'. Which, in the end, turned into 'OH MY HOLY ****ING CRAP THIS GUY IS POWERFUL.'
The original build uses mainly 3.5, but a feat and a class level, (well, three, but one can be substituted for a 3.5 one with ease) from PF, and a few items and racial stuff from 3rd party books which likely not be allowed at the table. (Yeah, who knew, the sexual 3.5 book has the best stuff to boost your charisma. Who knew?)
But, for those with less lenient DMs, I'll also be posting some proposed changes you could use to make your character using a less wide array of resources available. (At a later date, if people want to see it) For those who want to look at irregular stuff from the current list: Bolded means that I'm signifying a non-3.5 WotC book.
First, though, credit where credit is due, a thread that helped a lot while creating this character: The Stat X to Y bonus thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732)
Also, various google searches on 'ways to increase charisma.
Ingredients:
The base/the Race:
Firesouled (Mainly for +4 cha and leadership. Fire type is neat. LA is bought off.)
Magic-blooded (-2 wis, +2 cha)
Unseelie Fey (Nice bonus for just about any character. +2 cha. Turns type into Fey if Savage Species type pyramid isn't used.)
Savage Species Incubus (For 12 levels a whopping bonus of +16 charisma, the second highest modifier from a single source, and the most reliable. Also, a 10% chance per day of summoning a balor. What's not to like?)
Of Lust (Creature of Lust, from Encyclopaedia Arcana -> Nymphology. Most of the book is rather immature stuff, but it's quite nice for a LA 0 +4 cha template. Turns type back into Outsider.)
Total: +28 charisma.
The filling/The Classes:
(As per level 20. Pick and choose what options you want if starting on an earlier level.)
Of course, the first 12 levels HAVE to be Succubus, as per the Savage Species rules you have to finish a monster class you take.
After that, I got:
Battledancer 1. (Cha to AC. May want to use Ascetic Chaos Monk if DM doesn't allow Battledancer to count as a monk for certain abilities. (See item section))
Oracle 1-> Lore Mystery -> Sidestep Secret revelation ((PATHFINDER)Exchange Dexterity with Cha for Reflex Saves and AC bonus.)
Antipaladin/Paladin of Slaughter 2 (Cha to all saves, or, if you use one of the Paladin ACF's, Cha to AC. I used cha to saves, though, since my total AC will already be through the roof.)
Marshal 1 (Motivate Fortitude, or any other save you don't think is high enough.)
Warlock 1 (Dark ones' Own Luck, at will choice of CHA to any one save.)
Blackguard 2 (Dark Blessing, another time your Cha bonus to all saves.)
This ends you with: the great many special abilities that are of no extraordinary use to us from most of the classes, which you can find out yourself.)
Cha to AC twice, once as an Untyped bonus, one to replace Dexterity.
Charisma to all saves twice, from two untyped bonuses.
In addition: Charisma to replace Dexterity for reflex saves.
A choice of one additional save to add Charisma to, as per your choice.
A choice of one additional save to add charisma to, for you and everyone in a 60 foot radius, set in stone at the first level of Marshal you gain. Can be improved for versatility, but is probably not worth it.
+5 from levelups.
The cherries/The feats:
I have more, but these are the ones that are the more important ones to the build:
Leadership. You will always have max Leadership level, no matter how huge of a **** you are. Also used to attract an Artificer cohort, to supply all your magic items. (I got them down to about 10% cost price, maybe someone can get it even lower.)
Noble Scion of War. (Pathfinder) Adds your Cha to Initiative instead of Dexterity.
Succubi's Kiss (Vile equivalent of Nymph's kiss). Of course, will likely be no'd, even if the rest of the build by some miracle is found to be okay. +2 to all charisma-related CHECKS, which, because of the rest of your abilities, will be just about all of them.
Quicken SLA (BoVD version.) You have a fair butt-load of Spell-like abilities. Using any one of them as a quickened one 1/day is neat. Otherwise, I'd likely suggest one of your more powerful Succubus abilities to use it on. Ethereal Jaunt or Teleport Without error, should the DM try and use rocks fall everyone dies on you. (As well he should. :smallwink: Still, I'm posting this here, it'll be my fault. So go ahead, you have my blessing, try it out.)
Keen Intellect: Int to Will saves instead of Wis. I dumped Wisdom as much as I could, so this is what I used to make up for it. You will also get quite some bonus Int due to something later. If you want another huge boost, though, use:
Force of Personality: Charisma to Mind-affecting Will saves. So all but a handfull of will-affecting abilities.
Which gives you:
Cohort and a load of followers
Cha to Initiative.
+4 charisma for purpose of variable checks. (+2 bonus modifier.)
Int or cha to most if not all will saves.
The Sprinkles/The items:
The, in my opinion, highest valued item is the Rod of Repression. It is found in the BoEF, and thus has a large chance of being disallowed, but if you can find willing creatures. (You've got the charisma to convince them), or just a lot of unwilling ones, you can use this rod to drain 1d6 damage of a creatures, for a will save DC of 20, up to a total of 5d6 per day. It will give you an average of a 17.5 bonus, and if you really need it, you can wait until a day you get the full 30 Charisma bonus.
The second best, is the Stormwreck Admirals Bicorne. In addition to giving an aura bonus to attack, saves, and some other stuff, it also gives a +5 bonus to charisma related checks. Let me repeat that, +5 bonus. Which is basically a slightly limited +10 untyped bonus to Charisma.
Some other items/item combos:
Tome of Leadership +5 for obvious reasons.
Belt of Magnificence for the same.
Slippers of Battledancing/Sparring Dummy of the Master. This is what you need a monk, or battledancer that is allowed to count as monk for. Slippers of Battledancing allow you to use your Charisma bonus to Attack and Damage for as long as you move 10 ft or more in a round. Sparring dummy of the master allows you to take 10ft steps instead of 5ft ones. I hope you can already see what the bonus is, if not, let me tell you.
CHARISMA FUELED FULL ATTACK.
Thank you.
Horseshoes of Flame/Phylactery of Change (Or any other item of at least 3/day polymorph) Using UMD to make it think you're a horse. May require some painful surgery, or saying that Incubi naturally have goat hooves as is depicted in some lore.
And the untyped +6 bonus to Charisma and +10 bonus to Intelligence make it really, really worth it.
Also invest in a Phylactery of Change, or some other item you can preferably activate while a horse to turn you back into your incubus form. Yes, you can use your change self ability from your succubus/incubus level to look humanoid, but sometimes you just want to look like yourself.
(*Note: This might also help not make your magic items look ridiculous, as turning into the nightmare form melds them into your body, and turning back into an incubus doesn't have to bring them back outside it, I believe.)
Item of Continuous Devil's Ego. +4 profane bonus to Cha, plus some other bonuses.
Item of continuous Righteous Aura. +4 Sacred bonus to Cha, plus some other bonus upon death, which shouldn't happen to you.
(Nowhere is it stated Demons can't have sacred bonuses.)
Item of Sirene's Grace, which gives you a bonus to cha and dex made worthless by your belt, but gives you a Deflection Bonus to your AC equal to your charisma modifier.
Pay for a casting of Mantle of the Icy Soul on you. You now have both the fire (from Firesouled), and Cold template, making you immune to both.
The graft giving you fast healing. If they get past your AC and saves somehow you're a bit fragile.
Which gives you:
A total of a +25 bonus to charisma at all times.
Another +10 bonus to effective charisma for variable rolls. (+5 bonus)
A daily changing Cha bonus of between 5 and 30.
A nearly always available possibility of using your Charisma for Attack and Damage rolls.
Deflection Bonus to AC equal to your Charisma.
The total of these feats, items, classes, and races. (The traits and flaws don't really matter for this)
18 base charisma. (Saying you're lucky.)
+28 race
+5 class levels.
+25 items.
+5/30 Rod of Repression.
For a total of between 81 and 106.
In addition, you gain another effective +14 charisma from Succubi's Kiss and Admirals' Bicorne in effects to variable rolls, so anything but Save DCs and AC.
so a 120 charisma maximum, if you count that.
This massive modifier. (+48 at best, which will be what I will use), you can apply:
Twice to all saves. (Paladin of Slaughter and Blackguard)
An additional time to Reflex (Oracle)
Possibly an additional time to Will. (Force of Personality.)
A save chosen once, then set in stone for the rest of the time. (Marshal)
A save chosen at will. (Warlock)
To Initiative (Noble Scion of War)
Thrice to AC:
Once replacing DEX (Oracle)
Once as an untyped bonus. (Battledancer/Ascetic Chaos Monk)
Once as a deflection bonus. (Sirene's Grace)
Used for attack and damage (Most of the time. Slippers of Battledancing.)
Also, your save DC's will be HUGE. And your spellcasting classes will grant you a load of bonus spells.
For a total of, on your best days, and not counting anything except what your charisma grants you.
+55 Inititative
AC of 154 without counting Natural Armour, or any other bonuses. AC of 106 when you're flatfooted.
+165 reflex.
+110 fortitude. +165 if, like me, you took Demand Fortitude.
+110 will. +165 against mind-affecting if Force of Personality is chosen.
+55 bonus you can throw upon any save you think it is necessary for.
+55 bonus to Attack and Damage if you move 10 ft or more, where BAB is added to.
DC of 58 on cantrips.
The rod of repression and the horseshoes of flame are noncontinuous, so they don't count for spells.
However, without that, and therefore a Cha of 70, should give you either 7 or 8, not entirely sure, level 1 bonus spells.
(Might put up the full sheet some time later)
--------------------
Well, that was my build. Could anyone look over it and see if there is anything that might be incompatible with other things that I missed?
And yes, he does have the highest saves and AC of any non-infinite loop D&D creature that I could find, at least.
Also, I want to know two other things: What are his weaknesses? How would you defeat such a creature as this one?
And: Do you have any more ideas for things that could boost his cha-based powers?