Warlock+metamagic rod question

[Cryov]

I find contradicting answers through google but can warlocks use metamagic rods?

Sudden Metamagic Feats: These metamagic
feats don’t require modified spell slots, and so they
work as well with spell-like abilities or invocations
as they do with spells (though because spell-like
abilities don’t have verbal or somatic components,
Sudden Silent Spell doesn’t apply and Sudden Still Spell
applies only to invocations).
Creatures with spell-like abilities at a high enough level
will fi nd sudden metamagic feats less useful than the
dedicated feats Empower Spell-Like Ability and Quicken
Spell-Like Ability (see page 303 of the Monster Manual), as
well as the Maximize Spell-Like Ability feat introduced in
this chapter.
Other Metamagic Feats: Except as noted above,
metamagic feats can’t generally be used to modify spell-like
abilities or invocations.

"Complete Arcane says that a warlock can use sudden metamagic feats because "these metamagic feats don't require modified spell slots". A metamagic rod does "not change the spell slot of the altered spell", so by the same logic that allows a sudden metamagic feat to work, a metamagic rod should work as well."

I got this from another thread, is this accurate?

[Forrestfire]

The way it's written would imply that any metamagic that doesn't modify the level can be used with invocations. I'd let it fly in my games, at least.

[Cryov]

DM is using the argument that warlocks use spell like abilities instead of spells. However the wording is shoddy for warlocks using metamagic rods.

[Forrestfire]

Well yes. Warlock stuff is all spell-like. The passage regarding metamagic and SLAs explicitly says that anything that doesn't affect the level can be used with SLAs.

Rods get iffier, I guess, if he doesn't consider them to be metamagic.

[nedz]

Warlocks can use most Sudden metamagic feats (CMage) (CArc) so the Rods of those should be fine.

Other Metamagic Rods: not for the intended purpose.

Ed: wrong book :smallsigh:

[Chronos]

There are no metamagic rods of sudden metamagic feats. Or perhaps more precisely, they're all rods of sudden metamagic feats. Normal metamagic can be used as often as you want, but increases the spell slot needed. Both sudden metamagic and rods require no change in spell slot, but can only be used a limited number of times per day.

[nedz]

OK, missed that small detail.

In which case they should be fine, though the rules don't spell this out.

The rules in CArc do seem to allow Warlocks to use the +0 Metamagics such as: Black Lore of Moil, Born of The Three Thunders, Energy Substitution, Cooperative Spell, Lord of the Uttercold, Relicguard Spell and Invisible Spell ?
(Well possibly not all of these)

Is this a line which is worth pursuing ?

[Forrestfire]

Invisible Spell is really fun, at the very least. I've been tempted to play a glaivelock with invisible spell that was fluffed as things just getting killed in his presence...