[PF] Animal Skin - Major Hex

[Barstro]

How does the "Animal Skin" Major Hex work?

Animal Skin
(Su): The witch can become any animal of a size from Tiny to Large whose skin she wears. This ability is similar to beast shape II, except she takes on the appearance of the specific individual from which the skin came. Source: Blood of the Moon

While it references Beast Shape II, it appears that it does not actually function the same.

So, Questions;
1) Standard action that lasts indefinitely?
2) How much skin does a Witch require?
3) What happens to ability scores? a) Keep Witch's ability scores, b) Change as in Beast Shape II, c) use ability scores that original animal had?
4) Does the Witch still get to use other Hexes while skin walking?
5) Any other thoughts or concerns?

edit: Since the Witch would need to be at least level 10 to take this Hex, it's unlikely that it would be useful in combat. But it has decent role playing and utility potential.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would use it to turn into tiny animals with useful travel modes, or into a megaraptor for mauling people in melee. I see no reason the duration of the effect should be any longer than the spell's duration. Your ability scores should change per the spell beast shape 2.

[Keneth]

1) Yes, or in worst case, you might need to reapply after 1 min./CL.
2) A full pelt.
3) They change as per beast shape.
4) Depends on the hex. Unless you need to speak, probably yes.
5) See polymorph subschool.

[Dalebert]

Most hexes are unlimited usage unless it specifies otherwise so I see no particular reason to apply a duration if it doesn't list one.

[Dalebert]

I'm just trying to picture a witch "wearing" the pelt of a rat.

[jindra34]

I'm just trying to picture a witch "wearing" the pelt of a rat.

Never says you have to where it as clothing. Maybe make it an amulet/necklace/bracelet or something.

[Fouredged Sword]

One could sew a number of small pelts into a belt or a pair of pants. It should be reasonable to have 10 or so tiny animal pelts in a cloak per say. Lots of options really.

[Slipperychicken]

5) Any other thoughts or concerns?


Not really. For all the things Paizo gets wrong, they gave the (Polymorph) school the nerf it needed.

[Psyren]

Most hexes are unlimited usage unless it specifies otherwise so I see no particular reason to apply a duration if it doesn't list one.

As Keneth said, even if it had a duration there's nothing stopping you from just using it again.



2) A full pelt.

I don't think so - it says you need to wear their skin but not how much. I could see a fish-scale bracelet being used to let the Witch transform into an aquatic form.

[Dalebert]

This one ability alone makes the witch more appealing to me. I've always been a fan of shape-shifting, more for the deception and sneaky elements than the power elements, though those are nice as well. And I particularly love the idea of having it at-will.

[OverdrivePrime]

It also doesn't have to be the *only* thing you wear. As the player of a high-charisma tailor witch with full skill ranks in Craft (Apparel), I'm very, very intrigued by this one, mostly for roleplaying opportunity and new transportation modes.

Manta ray leather pants, a cloak lined with cheetah fur, a vest made of hawk feathers, a wide-brimmed hat with a giant gecko-skin band; this guy is gonna be hysterically awesome once he's fully outfitted. :smallcool:

[Psyren]

This one ability alone makes the witch more appealing to me. I've always been a fan of shape-shifting, more for the deception and sneaky elements than the power elements, though those are nice as well. And I particularly love the idea of having it at-will.

If you like at-will shapeshifting, check out the Occultist from Radiance House (PF Binder update.) Specifically, the Fey Baraddu (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/binding-spirits/spirits/fey-baraddu) vestige, with which you can shapeshift all day as many times as you want with only a 5 round cooldown between activations.

[Keneth]

Most hexes are unlimited usage unless it specifies otherwise so I see no particular reason to apply a duration if it doesn't list one.

By RAW, all Su abilities that work as spells also inherit the spell's duration unless stated otherwise.


Never says you have to where it as clothing. Maybe make it an amulet/necklace/bracelet or something.

I don't think so - it says you need to wear their skin but not how much. I could see a fish-scale bracelet being used to let the Witch transform into an aquatic form.

Yeah, RAW doesn't say so, but IIRC RAI is that you actually wear the skin post-transformation, so it should really be a full pelt. Otherwise you'd end up as a skinless animal with a few fur patches or scales. :smallwink:

People are free to fluff it however they want. There are virtually no rules for skinning animals, and only a handful of negligible prices for pelts, so it shouldn't matter.

Where or how you wear it while in human form is pretty irrelevant though.

[Barstro]

As Keneth said, even if it had a duration there's nothing stopping you from just using it again.

Well, let's look at consequences.
1) Duration
If there IS a duration, being able to burrow could have consequences.
More Important; Being able to fly would have a huge consequence. Unless you have a-studied Flight; which I have. But if the large Witch/bird is carrying anything, or being a mount, then it could be dire.

2) Definition of "wear"
If it's a lot, then the witch will need a Bag of Holding (or similar) and spend actions getting the skin out to don.
If it's almost nothing, then the the witch can have the aforementioned belt of many bloody skins.

3) Ability scores
I think the words "the appearance of the specific individual", specifically; "specific" should mean that the witch gets those scores. But, it says "appearance" instead of "form", so I cannot make a strong argument. In the end, it's either strawberry or peach ice cream; nothing to get excited about, but at least it's ice cream.

4) Hex while skin walking
I think this is very important. My witch could sit there looking like some else's companion or familiar and still use hexes? Seems like gold.

What is the action for stopping "Wear Skin"? Standard? Free?

[Barstro]

By RAW, all Su abilities that work as spells also inherit the spell's duration unless stated otherwise.

Could you link the SRD? I couldn't find it with an admittedly short search.

But the counter argument is that it doesn't work like the spell because a skin is still needed. That being said, using spell duration makes sense.

EDIT: I also agree that a full pelt makes sense. Fortunately, I have a few levels before I can take it. Maybe things will be clarified by then.

[Keneth]

If there IS a duration, being able to burrow could have consequences.
More Important; Being able to fly would have a huge consequence..

Since it's at will, renewing the duration is trivial. Unless you're unable to take standard actions and you're for some reason stuck in the ground/air.


I think the words "the appearance of the specific individual", specifically; "specific" should mean that the witch gets those scores.

Hell no, this half of what was wrong with 3.5 polymorphing. We're not regressing back to that mess. :smalltongue:


What is the action for stopping "Wear Skin"? Standard? Free?

Standard. It's either an additional use of the ability, or a dismissal of the spell effect. Either way, a standard action that doesn't provoke AoOs.

[Psyren]

1) So fly in bursts or get the Flight Hex for perma-feather-fall. As for burrow, if your chosen creature leaves a tunnel behind (most of them do), you can simply crawl 5ft. backwards into it as a move action and reactivate.

2) Why would you have to get it out again? If you're wearing it when you shift, presumably you'd still be wearing it when you shift back, so you can just shift again.

3) You do not get the ability scores of your chosen form no matter what. Those are dictated by the beast shape II spell and the polymorph subtype itself. This is part of the rules for polymorph in PF. Yes, this means you could potentially turn into, say, a bear that is much weaker than a normal bear.

4) Not sure what that has to do with duration, but as was said previously - as long as you don't need to speak to use a hex you should be fine.

[Barstro]

1) So fly in bursts or get the Flight Hex.
Not helpful for the rider, if the witch is a mount at the time.:smallwink:


2) Why would you have to get it out again? If you're wearing it when you shift, presumably you'd still be wearing it when you shift back, so you can just shift again.
If the Witch wants to be something else in the middle of a fight.


3) You do not get the ability scores of your chosen form no matter what. Those are dictated by the beast shape II spell and the polymorph subtype itself. This is part of the rules for polymorph in PF. Yes, this means you could potentially turn into, say, a bear that is much weaker than a normal bear.
Ok. That makes sense. I never read much on polymorph. Looks like that could have answered a lot of my questions.


4) Not sure what that has to do with duration, but as was said previously - as long as you don't need to speak to use a hex you should be fine.
Has nothing to do with duration, had to do with the question of if a Hex could be used. My fault for jumping around in my topics.


Standard. It's either an additional use of the ability, or a dismissal of the spell effect. Either way, a standard action that doesn't provoke AoOs.I forgot that dismissal was a standard action. Makes sense.

[Psyren]

Not helpful for the rider, if the witch is a mount at the time.:smallwink:

So... don't be someone's mount :smalltongue:



If the Witch wants to be something else in the middle of a fight.

I don't see this happening often; usually your chosen form simply relates to what works best for the fight as a whole.

If it does, however, you could always wear multiple skins - nothing says you can't, only that you have to be wearing the one you want to turn into when you choose it. Hell, make a patchwork quilt, or take up multiple slots.

[jindra34]

If the Witch wants to be something else in the middle of a fight.


Given that everything melds into you in flight... you'd have to spend a significant number of actions to change mid flight, so only doable without landing at extreme altitude.

[Slipperychicken]

Yeah, just wear some cat-hide socks, shark leather gloves, a dire wolf fur vest, bull leather boots, a rat-hide bracelet, a racoon-skin hat.. you get the idea. PETA might hate you, but you get the most out of your hex.

Also, your equipment melds into your form during Polymorph. This is why Druids get their clothes back when their Wildshape ends.



If it does, however, you could always wear multiple skins - nothing says you can't, only that you have to be wearing the one you want to turn into when you choose it. Hell, make a patchwork quilt, or take up multiple slots.

Reminds me of Dwarf Fortress item descriptions.

This is a finely-crafted leopardskin robe. It is encircled with bands of cat leather and sheep hide. It menaces with horns of ox leather. On the item is an image of a cheese in owlskin.

[Barstro]

So... don't be someone's mount :smalltongue
But she really likes being able to be in melee. Despite how weak she otherwise is.


Given that everything melds into you in flight... you'd have to spend a significant number of actions to change mid flight, so only doable without landing at extreme altitude.
True; standard action to change back, some sort of action to access another skin, standard action to change again.

[MonochromeTiger]

So... don't be someone's mount :smalltongue:
.

ok let's face it this is nearly impossible in any group with more than one person. someone gets lazy and wants a ride through the dungeon or someone gets the idea to start making jokes and jumps on a shapeshifter's back to have a visual for it.... the easiest advice would just be "yes, fly and drop out of the form so they learn to stop doing that".

oh and barstro I have to agree it's likely a standard action to switch back (much like wild shape transformations back and forth) to prevent someone just going crazy with the ability and going from a string of natural attacks to hitting with a powerful magic weapon.

slipperychicken I think it may need the full pelt and not a cut version (assuming I'm right in my mental image of an "in sheep's clothing" situation). and you're possibly one of the few people I've seen actually read that the gear melds into a druid when they wildshape... your reading skill fills me with respect for you..

[Psyren]

ok let's face it this is nearly impossible in any group with more than one person. someone gets lazy and wants a ride through the dungeon or someone gets the idea to start making jokes and jumps on a shapeshifter's back to have a visual for it.... the easiest advice would just be "yes, fly and drop out of the form so they learn to stop doing that".

Well, in a dungeon chances are you won't be flying very high anyway. And even if you are, you need to be Large to carry a Medium passenger, which isn't a good idea in many dungeons with tight passages.

[Keneth]

one of the few people I've seen actually read that the gear melds into a druid when they wildshape

What do people assume happens with the gear? :smallconfused:

[Barstro]

What do people assume happens with the gear? :smallconfused:

Well, I remembered that the gear merges. But I forgot that the Witch would have to change back in order to access it. Pretty sure that's because I thought it might be a free action to change back, so I wasn't worried about accessing anything.

[MonochromeTiger]

Well, in a dungeon chances are you won't be flying very high anyway. And even if you are, you need to be Large to carry a Medium passenger, which isn't a good idea in many dungeons with tight passages.

see that's when you start scraping them off your back on the ceiling and walls of the dungeon.


What do people assume happens with the gear? :smallconfused:

I have had to explain 4 times that my character's equipment is not worn over their fur in dire tiger form and 3 other times that the gear doesn't break or fall off leaving my character naked when they change back..the inability of some people to read or use logic shall always be the leading cause of braincell loss in my life.

[jindra34]

I have had to explain 4 times that my character's equipment is not worn over their fur in dire tiger form and 3 other times that the gear doesn't break or fall off leaving my character naked when they change back..the inability of some people to read or use logic shall always be the leading cause of braincell loss in my life.

Well not for wild shaping... Lycanthropes have to deal with those issues though.

[MonochromeTiger]

Well, I remembered that the gear merges. But I forgot that the Witch would have to change back in order to access it. Pretty sure that's because I thought it might be a free action to change back, so I wasn't worried about accessing anything.

if it were an illusion I'd definitely say free action since then it could simply be using the pelt as a visual aid for the illusion, but since it seems to be a full change of forms to the exact creature the pelt came from.. might I suggest having your group carry a few blankets or collars with items attached? they can hang over the character after they change so they're easier to access than stopping for 3 rounds to change and use then change back.


Well not for wild shaping... Lycanthropes have to deal with those issues though.

yes but they get the fun trade off of having armor and weapons in their hybrid form as well as some natural attacks.