Seven times the punch

[Kazyan]

I made a lots-of-rocket-punches build. Requires a generous DM, though.

Race: Strongheart Halfling
Classes: Fighter 6/Master Thrower 5. Take Palm Throw, Defensive Toss, and Weak Spot as your thrown weapon tricks.
Item: +1 Throwing Returning Aptitude Amulet of Natural Attacks. I'd give you a lower-level version of this build, but you need this expensive item, and otherwise it would break WBL.
Feats:
S Weapon Focus (Javelin)
Flaw1 Brutal Throw
1 Improved Unarmed Strike
F1 Point Blank Shot
F2 Precise Shot
3 Superior Unarmed Strike
F4 Power Attack
F6 Snap Kick
6 Tormtor School
9 Power Throw


Step 1: Punch a target in melee range.
Step 2: Activate Snap Kick. With your Throwing Returning amulet, literally throw a punch at someone, using Defensive Throw to avoid the AoO, using Weak Spot, and Power Throwing for however much you desire.
Step 3: Use Palm Throw to throw a third punch along with the throw in Step 2. Toss a pair of fingers or whatever.
Step 4: Activate Tormtor School. Normally this lets you throw a javelin as a swift action after you make a successful melee attack with a javelin, but Aptitude lets you apply weapon-specific feats to other weapons. You're throwing your Unarmed Strike.
Step 5: See Step 2.
Step 6: Use Palm Throw to double your two attacks from Steps 4 and 5. remember Defensive Throw, Weak Spot, and Power Throw.

The result is that you get three punches when you attack as a standard action, and four more if one of them hits. Seven times the punch.

This build's to-hit and damage aren't terrible, either. Aptitude lets you apply WF (Javelin) and the +1 damage from Tormtor School to your unarmed strike, and because IUS and Superior Unarmed Strike are weapons-specific feats, you get +2 to hit and damage from Aptitude as well. (It's a weird enchantment.) Since you'll be near melee range, you'll likely get Point Blank Shot in your favor. There's also having Full BAB and making touch attacks with Power Throw.

EDIT: Made some mistakes. Had to add a flaw to meet prerequisites.

[LordConcrete]

Would Lightning Mace work with this build?

[Red Fel]

1: Is there a question in there? I mean, it looks nice, but you're right, it kind of requires a generous DM.

2: You chose Master Thrower over Bloodstorm Blade. I'm curious as to why. I can see that the skill tricks are nice, but I don't think they work precisely the way you seem to think they do. Additionally, Warblade gives you Weapon Aptitude, which means you don't need to spend the extra WBL on the enhancement, and Warblade is your ticket into Bloodstorm Blade anyway.

3: Why not use a Battlefist? It seems more practical and more believable than actually throwing your punches (as awesome as that seems).

[Kazyan]

Would Lightning Mace work with this build?

Maybe, but how am I going to get the, like, 5 more feats? Also, poor crit range.


1: Is there a question in there? I mean, it looks nice, but you're right, it kind of requires a generous DM.

2: You chose Master Thrower over Bloodstorm Blade. I'm curious as to why. I can see that the skill tricks are nice, but I don't think they work precisely the way you seem to think they do. Additionally, Warblade gives you Weapon Aptitude, which means you don't need to spend the extra WBL on the enhancement, and Warblade is your ticket into Bloodstorm Blade anyway.

3: Why not use a Battlefist? It seems more practical and more believable than actually throwing your punches (as awesome as that seems).

No questions; I just wanted to show the forum something amusing. Warblade's Weapon Aptitude doesn't quite work that way; it lets you alter the feats themselves, which turns off Tormtor school. Finally, I don't know how Battlefists work.

[animewatcha]

How are you meeting the pre-req. that you need monk language on unarmed strike for NoNA to work?

[Chronos]

You don't need monk unarmed strike to use a necklace of natural attacks. What makes you think you do?

And the Warblade's weapon aptitude ability doesn't work quite the same way as the aptitude weapon ability-- It won't let you use Tormtor School with a non-javelin weapon.

[animewatcha]

When people's use the necklace of natural attacks ( to enhance a natural weapon of course ) to enhance unarmed strike, it is because they have picked up ( in some form ) the language of monk's unarmed strike. Specifically, that monk unarmed strike is able to be used certain things for natural weapons and manufactored weapons.


SRD: A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

So a monk can benefit from the magic fang spell, but a fighter can't as far as unarmed strike goes. Hence my issue with this build.

[Chronos]

All unarmed strikes are natural weapons. What's special about a monk's is that they also count as manufactured weapons.

[Karnith]

So a monk can benefit from the magic fang spell, but a fighter can't as far as unarmed strike goes. Hence my issue with this build.
No, both a Monk's and a Fighter's unarmed strikes can benefit from Magic Fang; the difference is that a Monk's unarmed strike can also benefit from Magic Weapon, because a Monk's unarmed strike counts as both a natural weapon and a manufactured weapon. Per the SRD entry for Magic Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicWeapon.htm):

Magic weapon gives a weapon a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. (An enhancement bonus does not stack with a masterwork weapon’s +1 bonus on attack rolls.)

You can’t cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as an unarmed strike (instead, see magic fang). A monk’s unarmed strike is considered a weapon, and thus it can be enhanced by this spell.
(Emphasis mine)

And the SRD entry for Magic Fang (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicFang.htm):

Magic fang gives one natural weapon of the subject a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. The spell can affect a slam attack, fist, bite, or other natural weapon. (The spell does not change an unarmed strike’s damage from nonlethal damage to lethal damage.)
(Emphasis mine)

[Nightraiderx]

weapon aptitude ability from tome of battle DOES work for tormentor school, all instances of javelin would be replaced with unarmed strike, as long as a specific weapon is mentioned in the feat's entry it changes all instances of it applying to a single weapon.

[animewatcha]

Then, get hit with something like this..

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070403a

natural weapons don't get iterative, unarmed strikes do. I am still googling this and finding things going both ways with constant mention of atleast one level of monk before the NoNA or INA thing. unarmed attack versus unarmed strike.

[Darrin]

Then, get hit with something like this..

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070403a

natural weapons don't get iterative, unarmed strikes do. I am still googling this and finding things going both ways with constant mention of atleast one level of monk before the NoNA or INA thing.

Skip got this one wrong. According to the PHB (or more specifically, the magic weapon/magic fang text), unarmed strikes are natural weapons. Even if Rules of the Game articles were considered official rules/errata (they aren't), the "primary sources" invocation takes care of this: when the PHB and Skip disagree, the PHB takes precedence.

[animewatcha]

Now on the searching picking up things of natural and unarmed strikes always considered light weapons ( little beyond things like PA or Weapon Finesse ). Are there stupid confusions like this even in the PHB ( aside from monk proficiency in unarmed strike )?

[Darrin]

Now on the searching picking up things of natural and unarmed strikes always considered light weapons ( little beyond things like PA or Weapon Finesse ). Are there stupid confusions like this even in the PHB ( aside from monk proficiency in unarmed strike )?

Yes. The rules for unarmed strikes and natural weapons were spread all over the place (Combat chapter, Feats chapter, spell descriptions, Monster Manual glossary), and not so many designers understood how they interact with each other, so you get all sorts of odd rules hiccups.

[Chronos]

Unarmed strikes are weird natural weapons that get iteratives, but they're still natural weapons.

And the Weapon Aptitude ability of a Warblade allows you to change the designated weapon for a feat, but you never designate a weapon for something that says it just works on javelins. It's referring to things like Weapon Focus or Improved Critical, for which you can choose any weapon.