Archers and Armor

[Valwyn]

Hi, Playground.

I was thinking of building an archer and I was wondering, how important is speed? I know archers normally use light armor to take advantage of their high Dex, but we're using some house rules that let you increase the max Dex of medium and heavy armor (sadly, light armor remains unchanged Dex-wise).

Another concern I have is that medium/heavy armors tend to reduce your fly speed, is there a way around that besides the Tooth of XXX (can't remember the name, it's from ToM)?

[Diarmuid]

Making armor out of mithril (and some other materials I think) can reduce the armor's type (heavy to medium, medium to light) which should lessen the impact on flight of the armor.

[Valwyn]

Yes, but medium armor also reduces your flight/land speed (unless there's a spell other than Fly/Overland Flight I don't know of), and light armor doesn't benefit from the house rule that boosts max Dex (I should have probably said that before).

[limejuicepowder]

What are all the details of this house rule? If the rule only amounts to increasing the max dex of medium and heavy armor, I don't understand why you're trying to take advantage of it: light armor has high max dex already.

Unless you're dex is so high even padded leather will restrict it (why wear armor then?), why is this rule worth jumping through hoops for?

[Firechanter]

Mithral Breastplate and be done with it.
Sure, you only apply 5 points of Dex bonus to your AC, but you get another 5 on top for free (well, for 5K GP), without slowing you down. You'd need to have a Dex >30 to get better than that. And _if_ you have a Dex >30, you can switch to a Celestial Chainmail (or Breastplate if your DM allows).
By the time a Celestial Breastplate isn't enough, you've got Dex 40. There's probably some way to get there, but I hazard that it won't be relevant in most games.

[Callin]

If Oriental Adventures is available then just use the Dastana and Chahar-Aina with a Chain Shirt and rock a +6 Armor +4 Max Dex? Turn that to Mithril sometime and Masterwork the other 2 and you are killing it. Enhancement bonuses wont stack from em but you could get some +1's that im sure could help you out. So you dont have to skyrocket the cost of the Chain Shirt.

[Valwyn]

What are all the details of this house rule? If the rule only amounts to increasing the max dex of medium and heavy armor, I don't understand why you're trying to take advantage of it: light armor has high max dex already.

These are roughly the bonuses you can get:
Light: +6 ACP, +12 AC
Medium: +6 ACP, +6 Dex, +12 AC
Heavy: +6 ACP, +6 Dex, +12 AC

Is it worth it to get heavier armor over light one?

Chain Shirt+Bonus: 16 AC, 4 Dex, 0 ACP
Mithral Chain Shirt+Bonus: 16 AC, 6 Dex, 0 ACP

Breastplate+Bonus: 17 AC, 9 Dex, 0 ACP
Mithral Breastplate+Bonus: 17 AC, 5 Dex, 0 ACP

Full Plate+Bonus: 20 AC, 7 Dex, 0 ACP
Mithral Full Plate+Bonus: 20 AC, 10 Dex, 0 ACP


Unless you're dex is so high even padded leather will restrict it (why wear armor then?), why is this rule worth jumping through hoops for?

I like to get armor so I can get some enhacements (I don't think you can get them on Bracers of Armor and the like).


If Oriental Adventures is available then just use the Dastana and Chahar-Aina with a Chain Shirt and rock a +6 Armor +4 Max Dex?

My DM doesn't like Dastanas.

[Person_Man]

If your games take place mostly in a dungeon or a similarly confined environment, then your movement speed is largely unimportant. Stand in the back of the party member conga line, step back 5 feet when possible, and swap to melee if you get attacked from behind. (Or buy a wand of Arrow Mind so you can attack with your bow without provoking AoO).

If your games take place mostly in open environments, then then you can position yourself 100-200 ft away from the rest of your party, and just stand still and shoot at enemies.

In either case, I wouldn't even invest any Feats into archery. They're just not worth the return on investment. All you need is good bow with the Precise Shot enchantment (Magic Item Compendium), and some cool magic ammo (Splitting, Slaying, etc), and you're set.

The one time movement speed is important is when you're a Rogue. In that case, you want to be able to Tumble as far as possible away from enemies, while still staying within 30 feet (and making sure they qualify as flanked or denied Dex). But in that case, it makes much more sense to use Two Weapon Fighting and Quick Draw instead of archery feats.

[TETanglebrooke]

I agree that land speed doesn't matter for long range attackers. Armor doesn't matter too much either.

Instead of putting money into either of those I would put money into escape plans. Boots of dimension door or something.

[Scow2]

If you're moving as an archer, you're not Full Attacking, and thus not dealing damage.

Tell him that the armor rules should be changed so that Light Armor has a lower potential ACP and Dex Bonus than Medium and Heavy Armors. It makes no sense whatsoever.

[Valwyn]

If your games take place mostly in a dungeon or a similarly confined environment, then your movement speed is largely unimportant. Stand in the back of the party member conga line, step back 5 feet when possible, and swap to melee if you get attacked from behind. (Or buy a wand of Arrow Mind so you can attack with your bow without provoking AoO).

If your games take place mostly in open environments, then then you can position yourself 100-200 ft away from the rest of your party, and just stand still and shoot at enemies.

So far we've dealt with mostly open spaces, buy I think that might change soonish.


Instead of putting money into either of those I would put money into escape plans. Boots of dimension door or something.

Any suggestions for magic items? I was thinking Cloak of Shadows (I think that's its name) and Anklets of Transposition. Maybe Boots of Swift Passage.

[TETanglebrooke]

Any suggestions for magic items? I was thinking Cloak of Shadows (I think that's its name) and Anklets of Transposition. Maybe Boots of Swift Passage.

The anklets are good and I frequently use them, but normally my builds have their escape plans built in so I don't need items for the job.