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View Full Version : [Pathfinder Base Class] The Guard



KitsuneBoxing
2013-11-26, 12:29 PM
Here's a class i've been working on. The idea was to make an intelligent fighter, based around the readied action mechanic, that would be tactical and fun to play. I'm about to start playing one in a campaign, and would love to hear your opinions.

I'm quite happy with it, although i don't consider it to be "done". I'm sure i'll have to change some things, and i plan to add more options later on.


The Guard

While some warriors use brute strength and emotion to fell their foes, and others use dazzling techniques and speed, a guard approaches the battlefield with patience and calm calculation. While certainly aware of the importance of both technique and power, the guard uses these aspects of combat as precision tools, not making any unnecessary movements, not swinging any harder than what is needed, always waiting until the perfect time to strike. It is in their uncanny stillness, their ruthless efficiency, that the guards' true strength lies. Some call it instinct, some coldness, others reduce it to the simplest of calculations: to achieve as much as possible, with the fewest losses possible. Whether a cynical murderer or a loving protector of friends, the guard always looks reality in the eyes, weighing the options against each other, to find the perfect solution.

Role: At the end of the day, a guard is a warrior, and his/her role is to defeat enemies with physical force and stand in the way between his/her comrades and the dangers of battle. However, his/her defensive and tactical approach to battle gives the guard another, more versatile, role on the battlefield. This is to keep the enemy in check, stopping their attacks and interrupting their spellcasting or maneuvers. To control and level the battlefield, as well as aid allies in need. Outside of combat the guard is alert and holds knowledge not only about combat, but about many things, knowing that foreknowledge is the best defense. With his/her ability to learn quick and master many talents, each guard also has a breadth of experience and skill that can aid and supplement his/her allies'.

HD: d10

Alignment: Any

Class Skills: Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Knowledge (Dungeneering), (Engineering), (Geography), (History), (Local), (Nature), (Nobility), Perception, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Stealth, Swim

Skill Ranks Per Level: 6+int mod

Table: Guard
{table]Level:|Base Attack Bonus:|Fort Save:|Ref Save:|Will Save:|Special
1st|+1|+0|+2|+2|Counter, Distance, Guarded, Tactic +1
2nd|+2|+0|+3|+3|Patience, Preparation, Watchful Eye
3rd|+3|+1|+3|+3|Calmness, Counterstrike 1d6, On the Watch
4th|+4|+1|+4|+4|Double Readiness, Preparation
5th|+5|+1|+4|+4|Bonus Feat, Efficiency, Tactic +2, Practical Knowledge
6th|+6/+1|+2|+5|+5|Calculated Combat, Preparation
7th|+7/+2|+2|+5|+5|Counterstrike 2d6
8th|+8/+3|+2|+6|+6|Combat Training, Preparation
9th|+9/+4|+3|+6|+6|Bonus Feat, Careful Steps, Tactic +3
10th|+10/+5|+3|+7|+7|Preparation
11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+7|+7|Counterstrike 3d6
12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+8|+8|Preparation, Triple Readiness
13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+8|+8|Bonus Feat, Greater Efficiency, Tactic +4
14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+9|+9|Preparation
15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+9|+9|Counterstrike 4d6
16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+10|+10|Precise Footwork, Preparation
17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+10|Bonus Feat, Tactic +5
18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+11|+11|Preparation
19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+11|+11|Counterstrike 5d6
20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+12|+12|Always Prepared, Preparation[/table]

Weapon And Armor Proficiency: Guards are proficient with all martial weapons and crossbows, light and medium armor and shields (except tower shields).

Encounters: Many of the guard's abilities are usable one or several times per encounter. This means that the guard must spend 10 minutes focusing his/her mind without any combat or dangerous situations before being able to use the abilities again.

Counter: At level 1, a guard can attempt to cancel an enemies attacks by readying the counter action. The guard must choose one enemy to counter. If that enemy attempts to make an attack while threatened by the guard then the guard makes an attack roll. If the attack roll is higher than the enemies attack roll then the enemies attack is canceled (treat a canceled attack as a missed attack). If the counter is successful and enemy would have missed whoever it tried to attack anyway, this provokes an attack of opportunity from the guard. If the enemy attempts a full attack round the guard still only makes one attack roll to counter, against the enemy's first attack. If successful the guard cancels a maximum of as many of the enemies attacks as the guard him/herself could make in a full attack round (not counting extra attacks from two weapon fighting, natural attacks et cet). The enemy only rolls for its' first attack and any additional attacks that are not countered by the guard. The attacks are canceled in the order that they would be made. So, if an enemy can make three attacks in a full attack round and the guard can make two, and the guard successfully counters the enemy's full attack round, then the enemy can still make its' third attack, with the appropriate penalty to the attack roll. In that case the enemy would roll two attack rolls, the first one, that is opposed to the guard's, and a second one, that represents the enemy's third attack, and is therefore made with a -10 penalty. Attacks that are automatically countered as part of a full attack round cannot provoke attacks of opportunity from the guard. The guard can only counter an enemies attacks using a melee weapon. The guard can also attempt to counter a combat maneuver made by the enemy (with an opposed attack roll to their cmb roll), in wich case he/she must decide what type of maneuver to attempt to counter when he/she readies the counter. Maneuvers that can be made instead of attacks in a full attack round are countered as normal attacks, without needing a specially readied counter.

Distance: At level 1, as a move action, the guard can re-roll his/her initiative, adding his/her guard level as a bonus to the roll. If this gives the guard a different place in the initiative order than before, that order comes into effect on the round after. If the new roll would give the guard an initiative roll that is worse than his previous roll then he does not have to take the new roll. If this ability is used in the same round as a readied action then the possible new initiative order provided by the readied action supersedes that provided by the distance ability. If the readied action does not provide a new initiative order, then the distance ability can still provide a new one. For example, a guard is second in the initiative order, with one orc above him/her, and two goblins under him/her. On his/her turn, the guard spends a move action to re roll his/her initiative, providing a new roll that would put him/her first in the next round. If the guard then readies an action to counter the attack of the goblin that is last in the order and does so, thus changing his/her initiative order to second last in the next round, this supersedes the new order from the distance ability. In this case, the use of the distance ability will have been a complete waste. However, if the guard instead readies to counter the other goblin, that is after him in the order, and does so, then his initiative would not be changed because of the readied action, and the new roll from his/her distance ability applies on the next turn.

Guarded: At level 1, the guard gains combat expertise as a bonus feat.

Tactic: A guard knows how to prioritize in combat, at level 1, he/she learns to apply a tactic to pursue a set goal, gaining a +1 bonus to achieve the goal, and a -1 penalties on something else, that has lost priority. At level 5, and every four levels thereafter, the bonus and penalty both increase by +1. A guard chooses two tactics at level 1, and one additional tactic every four levels after 1. Starting a tactic is a move action, or a swift action, but in that case the tactic starts at the beginning of the guard's next turn. A guard can start a number of tactics each encounter equal to his/her intelligence modifier. Two tactics can not be active at the same time. Starting a new tactic cancels the current one. A tactic can be ended by the guard as a free action or an immediate action. The following are tactics the guard can choose from:

Aid Ally: The guard chooses an adjacent ally in need of help, and gives the ally his/her tactic bonus to ac, and him/herself his/her tactic penalty to ac. Once the ally stops being adjacent to the guard for one full round, the tactic has ended.

Avoid Magic: The guard chooses an enemy to be extra vary of, and receives his/her tactic bonus on all saving throws against spells and spell like abilities cast by that enemy, and his/her tactic penalty on all saves against spells or spell like abilities cast by anybody else. Once the enemy is dead, unconscious or otherwise out of combat, the tactic has ended.

Avoid Maneuver: The guard chooses a combat maneuver to be careful of, and receives his/her tactic bonus to cmd against that maneuver, and his/her tactic penalty against all other maneuvers.

Contain Enemy: The guard chooses an enemy that he/she currently threatens, and receives his/her tactic bonus on all attack rolls and double his/her tactic bonus on all damage rolls on attacks of opportunity caused by movement against that enemy and readied actions to attack that enemy if it tries to leave, and his/her tactic penalty on all other attack and damage rolls. Once the enemy is dead, unconscious or otherwise out of combat, the tactic has ended.

Defend against Enemy: The guard chooses an enemy and receives his/her tactic bonus to ac against that enemy, and his/her tactic penalty to ac against all other enemies. Once the enemy is dead or unconscious or otherwise out of combat , the tactic has ended.

Destroy Enemy: The guard chooses an enemy and receives his/her tactic bonus on all damage rolls made against that enemy, and his/her tactic penalty on all attack rolls against other enemies. Once the enemy is dead or unconscious or otherwise out of combat, the tactic has ended.

Get There: The guard chooses a specific square that must be longer away than his/her double move speed. The guard receives his/her tactic bonus to ac against attacks of opportunity caused by movement to get to the square and double his/her tactic bonus to acrobatics and climb checks to get to the square. The guard also receives his/her tactic penalty to all attack rolls. Once the guard has reached the square, the tactic has ended.

Hold Position: The guard stays still in once place and receives his/her tactic bonus to damage rolls on all attacks of opportunity and to cmd against bull rush maneuvers, and his/her tactic penalty on all other damage rolls. Once the guard has moved from his/her position in any way, the tactic has ended.

Protect Ally: The guard chooses an ally and receives his/her tactic bonus on all attack rolls made to counter attacks against that ally, and his/her tactic penalty on all attack rolls made to counter attacks against anybody else.

Release Ally: The guard chooses an ally that is grappled or entangled and adjacent to him/her, and gives the ally double his/her tactic bonus to cmb and/or escape artist checks to escape, and his/her tactic penalty to his/her own cmd. Once the ally is free the tactic has ended.

Retrieve Item: The guard chooses a weapon or item to retrieve, and receives his/her tactic bonus on all cmb rolls to steal or disarm it from an enemy, and to ac against attacks of opportunities caused by picking the item up from the ground, and his/her tactic penalty on damage rolls. Once the item has been retrieved by the guard or one of his/her allies, the tactic has ended.

Secure Ally: The guard chooses an ally that he/she is adjacent to, and gives the ally double his/her tactic bonus on all concentration checks to cast spells defensively, and him/herself his/her tactic penalty to ac. Once the ally has spent a full round without being adjacent to the guard, the tactic has ended.

Shake Them Off: The guard receives his/her tactic bonus to ac as long as he/she has moved at least 10 feet this round (not counting five foot steps), and his/her tactic penalty to perception checks and will saves.

Patience: At level 2, a guard adds his/her intelligence modifier to all attack and cmb rolls that are made as part of a readied action. In addition, the guard never provokes an attack of opportunity by using a combat maneuver when it is done as part of a readied action, even if he/she doesn't have the improved feat for that combat maneuver.

Preparations: At level 2 and every even level thereafter, the guard becomes even more prepared for combat, and even more calm in the face of danger. He/she chooses from the list of preparations below. Unless otherwise noted, no preparation can be selected more than once. Preparations marked with an asterisk modify the guard's counter ability. Only one of these effects may be applied to a counter at the same time. This choice is made before the attack roll is made. The dc for saving throws made against a preparation is 10+half the guard's level+the guard's intelligence modifier.

Back to center: The guard gains the quickdraw feat and may also sheathe a weapon or put away an item as a free action, rather than a move action. Also, sheathing a weapon or putting away an item does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Battlefield Overview: Whenever the guard is first in the initiative order, he/she gets to know the current initiative order and gains the benefits of the spell deathwatch. This is not a supernatural effect though, only the effects of the guard's honed senses. Because of this, the guard does not find out whether a creature is technically not alive (as in the case of a construct or undead) only how close a creature is to being defeated in combat. Also, this does not allow the guard to see through people faking their deaths without a sense motive check opposed to their bluff check. At level 8, the guard can also see if a creature is at full hp, or below half, using this ability.

*Bleeding Counter: When making an attack of opportunity against an opponent as part of a counter, the opponent receives 1 bleed damage +1 for every die of counterstrike the guard has. This bleed damage can be stopped with a successful dc 15 heal check.

Calculated Movement: As a swift action, the guard may attempt to counter an attack of opportunity that he/she has provoked from movement, using the standard rules of the counter ability. No special modifications may be added to a counter made this way. The guard must be at least level 8 to select this preparation.

Careful Strike: As a standard action, the guard can make a single attack against an opponent, and ignore all miss chances caused by concealment. The guard must know in what square the opponent is in in order to attack it.

*Castling: When successfully countering the attack of an enemy the same size as the guard or smaller, the guard may choose to have him/her and the enemy switch places. The guard may also move him/her or the enemy one additional five feet as part of this movement. This cannot be used to move the enemy into a square that would harm it, such as a trap or spell. Neither the guard nor the enemy provokes attacks of opportunity with this movement.

Completely Shielded: While weilding a shield in one hand, the guard gains dr 3/-. A number of times per encounter equal to his/her intelligence modifier, the guard can spend an immediate action to add his/her intelligence modifier to this dr against one attack. The guard must be at least level 12 and have selected Smart Shieldwork to select this preparation.

*Counter Arrows: The Guard can choose to ready a counter against a ranged attack made by an enemy within 50 feet. The guard can only counter a ranged attack if it is directed at him/her or at someone adjacent to him/her. Countering this way can not give the guard an attack of opportunity against the enemy, even if the attack would have missed. The guard can use this ability to counter a ranged full attack round, using the normal rules for countering full attack rounds.

*Crippling Counter: When the guard makes a successful attack of opportunity against an opponent as part of a counter, he/she can attempt to cripple the opponent, slowing it down. The opponent's move speed is reduces by 10 feet. If the opponent has evasion or uncanny dodge it looses the benefits of these abilities while slowed down. If the opponent has improved evasion or improved uncanny dodge then these abilities instead start working as normal evasion and normal uncanny dodge while the opponent is slowed down. The opponent is slowed down for 1d4 rounds. Using this ability against a creature that is already crippled slows it down an additional 5 feet and prolongs the duration by 1d2 rounds. The creature cannot be slowed down below 5 feet. The creature receives a fortitude save to avoid the crippling. Creatures immune to precision damage cannot be crippled.

Damage Control: Whenever the guard is moved against his/her will by physical force he/she can take a free five foot step as part of that movement. The five foot step is used after the movement is resolved, meaning that if the guard is pushed 10 feet back he/she can use a five foot step to immediately move five feet forward, resulting in only being moved back five feet, or to move further back, resulting in being moved 15 feet. The guard can also use his/her five foot step to move sideways or diagonally. This does not work against mind controlling effects that make the guard move of his/her own accord, only against physical forces working from outside the guard, such as a bullrush or hydraulic push. At level 12, the guard may choose to move 10 feet instead, but only if the effect moves him/her at least 10 feet from the beginning.

Dirty Calculation: The guard can ready a dirty trick maneuver instead of the readied attack or counter as part of calculated combat. The guard must be at least level 6 to select this preparation.

*Distant Counter: The guard can counter an attack using a ranged weapon. The guard can only counter attacks made within 30 feet this way. Countering an attack with a ranged weapon provokes an attack of opportunity and expends ammunition, just like making an attack with a ranged weapon. If the guard has the point blank master feat, or another ability that enables him/her to make attacks with a ranged weapon without provoking attacks of opportunity, then this applies to countering as well. The enemy countered by the guard never provokes an attack of opportunity from the guard, even if its' attack would have missed. The guard can select this preparation several times, every additional time the guard selects it, the range is increased by 20 feet.

Expert Strike: When using combat expertise, the guard does not gain the penalty to attack rolls on the first attack made each round. If the guard readies an attack or counter as part of calculated combat that round, then he/she can choose to have that attack roll be the one that does not receive any penalties.

Free Strike: Once per encounter, when successfully countering an enemy's attack, the guard can choose to make an attack of opportunity against the enemy, even if that enemy would not have missed with its' attack. At level 10 and level 17, the guard can use this ability one additional time per encounter.

Furious Patience: The guard can choose to give up the intelligence modifier to attack rolls when making a readied attack, and instead gain his/her intelligence modifier as a bonus to damage rolls. The guard chooses whether to use this ability when readying the action.

Guard's Tricks: The guard is very adaptable in combat, and has many small tricks that he/she can use to his/her advantage. A number of times per encounter equal to his/her intelligence modifier, the guard can use one of the following tricks:

- Catch This: As a swift action, the guard can throw an item that he/she is holding in one hand to an ally as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. If the attack roll is successful, the ally can catch the item as an immediate action. This ability can also be used to throw an item into an empty square. The item does not break, and cannot be used to hurt anyone with this ability.

- Foothold: As a free action, the guard can step on an item that is in his/her square, securing it from being picked up. Anyone attempting to pick the item up must succeed on a disarm check against the guard, in addition to the usual attack of opportunity that picking up an item provokes. The guard can also pick up the item as a free action as part of movement. To do this, the guard has to have at least one hand free. The guard can only pick up items in this way that are small enough to hold in one hand. If the guard is knocked prone, the item stops being secured.

- Get ready: The guard can equip any shield except a tower shield as a move action or draw an item from his/her backpack as a swift action. If the guard has the quickdraw feat, he/she can both equip a shield and draw an item as a free action.

- Open Minded: For this trick, the guard chooses one preparation for which he/she meets the prerequisites. This must be a prepration that gives the guard a permanently usable ability, such as "Dirty Calculation" or "Supernatural Dodge". Having a prepration in this slot does not count as having to prepration for the purpouse of meeting prerequisites. By training for four hours, the guard can exchange the preparation in this slot for another one. This can only be done once per day, the change is not temporary, the guard must spend an additional four hours to change back.

- Reveal the Hidden: The guard is trained in fighting creatures that are invisible, and can splatter them with dust or dirt to reveal their location. As a standard action, when in a place that has dust or dirt or mud or similar on the ground (or if the guard has in any way access to something similar) the guard can throw or splatter it in a 15 ft cone as a standard action. Any invisible creatures that are in the cone must make a reflex save, if they fail, they stop being invisible and gain merely 20% concealment, if they succeed, they keep on being invisible. At level 10, the guard can use this ability as a move action, and the invisible creature becomes completely visible if it fails its' reflex save.

At level 5, 10 and 15, the guard can use a guard's trick one additional time per encounter, in addition to his/her intelligence modifier.

Intelligent Training: The guard chooses one combat feat that has a certain physical ability score as a prerequisite. The guard may use his/her intelligence score instead of this ability score. This preparation does not allow the guard to gain the feat as a bonus feat, only to meet the prerequisites for it. This preparation may be selected multiple times.

Nimble Leap: When the guard spends both his/her five foot steps to move in a straight line without any interrupting actions, he/she can choose to move 15 feet, rather than 10. The guard must be at least level 10 to select this preparation.

One Step Ahead: Whenever the guard is first in the initiative order, he/she gains the evasion ability. At level 10, the guard instead gains the improved evasion ability.

On Guard: When the guard attempts to counter an attack, whoever the attack is directed at gains a +2 bonus to ac against the attack. If the counter is unsuccessful, the ac bonus still remains, but if the enemy attempts a full attack round, the bonus is only against the first attack.

*Penetrating Counter: When the guard makes a successful attack of opportunity against an opponent as part of a counter, that attack overcomes all damage reduction except dr/- and dr/slashing piercing or blunt. The guard must be at least level 8 to select this preparation.

*Penetrating Counter, Greater: When the guard makes a successful attack of opportunity against an opponent as part of a counter, that attack overcomes damage reduction as the penetrating counter ability. It also ignores all dr/- and dr/piercing slashing and blunt.

Perfect Prediction: When readying to counter an enemy's attack, the guard can choose to decide not just which enemy to counter, but also who the guard thinks that enemy will attack. If the enemy attacks someone that the guard did not predict, then the guard cannot counter the enemy's attack. However, if the enemy attacks the right person and the guard successfully counters the attack, then the enemy automatically provokes an attack of opportunity from the guard, even if the enemy's attack would not have missed. The guard must be at least level 6 to select this preparation.

Perfect Timing: A number of times per encounter equal to his/her intelligence modifier, when the guard readies an action, he/she can choose to keep his/her place in the initiative order, rather than move to the order in which the readied action takes place. The guard must be at least level 6 to select this preparation.

Planned Route: As a swift action, a number of times per encounter equal to his/her intelligence modifier, the guard can ignore all difficult terrain for one round.

Powerful Strike: A number of times per encounter equal to his/her intelligence modifer, the guard may spend a swift action to add his/her counterstrike damage to the next attack he/she makes. If this attack misses then the ability is wasted. The counterstrike damage does not stack with itself and can therefore not be added to another attack that deals counterstrike damage.

*Protective Counter: When the guard makes a successful attack of opportunity against an opponent as part of a counter, the guard receives a dodge bonus to ac against that opponent equal to 1 +1 for each counter attack die the guard has. This bonus lasts until the end of the enemy's next round.

Readied Cleave: The guard can ready the cleave ability instead of the readied attack or counter as part of calculated combat. The guard must still have the cleave feat to use the cleave ability. The guard must be at least level 6 to select this preparation.

Readied Focus: The guard can ready the focused shot ability instead of the readied attack or counter as part of calculated combat. The guard must still have the focused shot feat to use this ability. The guard must be at least level 6 to select this preparation.

Ready and Stable: When the guard has readied a counter, and is waiting to use it, he/she gains a +4 bonus to his/her cmd against bull rush, trip and overrun maneuvers.

Ready for it: Whenever the guard is first in the initiative order, he/she adds his/her intelligence modifier to his/her cmd.

Shield Master: When wielding a shield in one hand, the guard can counter one additional attack in a full attack round. This means that a guard at level 3 can counter two attacks during a counter, rather than one. At level 10, the guard can counter two additional attacks while wielding a shield.

Sidestepper: Whenever the guard is first in the initiative order, he/she gains a +2 dodge bonus to ac.

Smart Shieldwork: When wielding a shield in one hand, the guard adds his/her shield bonus to his/her touch ac and to cmd. Also, a number of times per encounter equal to his/her intelligence modifier the guard can spend an immediate action to increase his/her shield bonus by an amount equal to his/her intelligence modifier against one attack.

*Staggering Counter: A number of times per encounter equal to his/her intelligence modifier, when the guard makes a successful attack of opportunity against an opponent as part of a counter, that opponent gains the staggered condition. The opponent receives a fortitude save to avoid the condition. The guard must be at least level 12 to select this preparation.

Stoic: The guard receives a +2 bonus to his/her will save. Also, a number of times per encounter equal to his/her intelligence modifier, the guard can make a will save instead of a fortitude save. The choice to use this ability must be made before the roll is made.

*Stunning Counter: A number of times per encounter equal to his/her intelligence modifier, when the guard makes a successful attack of opportunity against an opponent as part of a counter, that opponent gains the stunned condition. The opponent receives a fortitude save to avoid the condition. The guard must be at least level 16 and have selected staggering counter to select this preparation.

Supernatural dodge: The guard can ready an action to dodge the magic of a spellcaster. If that spellcaster casts a spell with an area of effect that would effect the guard the guard makes an acrobatics check against the spell's dc. If the guard is successful he/she ignores the effect of the spell completely, as if he/she was not part of the area of effect. Spells thar remain, and give addional effect to people that stay within the area still effect the guard later on, but on the round directly after the spell has been avoided, the guard receives no negative concequences for staying within the area. For example, if the guard avoids the effect of a stinking cloud spell he/she can spend his/her next turn moving out of the cloud area (or something else) without being affected by the spell. This action can be readied instead of an attack or counter as a part of calculated combat. The guard must be at least level 6 to select this preparation.

Supernatural Dodge, Greater: The guard can ready an action to dodge the magic of a spellcaster. This works as the ordinary supernatural dodge, except the guard may also use it to dodge spells that targets him/her directly, as long as those spells require a saving throw. The guard does not have to be the only target of a spell to be able to dodge it. The guard must be at least level 10 and have selected supernatural dodge to select this preparation.

Surprise Switch: As an immediate action, a number of times per encounter equal to his/her intelligence modifier, the guard may switch who he/she has readied to counter to another enemy within counter distance. The new enemy is treated exactly as if the guard readied to counter that enemy in the first place.

Swift Distance: A number of times per encounter equal to his/her intelligence modifier, the guard can use his/her distance ability as a swift action.

Swift Re Planning: A number of times per encounter equal to his/her intelligence modifier, the guard can start a tactic right away as a swift action.

*Violent Immobilization: When the guard makes a successful attack of opportunity against an opponent as part of a counter and chooses to make a combat maneuver instead of a normal attack, the guard can still give the damage from his/her counterstrike ability to the enemy. This damage is only given if the maneuver is successful.


Watchful Eye: From level 2, the guard adds half of his/her guard level to all perception and sense motive checks.

Calmness: At level 3, the guard receives a +2 bonus against mind affecting effects. At level 5, and every five levels thereafter, this bonus rises by +1.

Counterstrike: At level 3, whenever a guard makes an attack of opportunity against an enemy as a part of countering that enemy's attack, he/she adds +1d6 to the damage roll. At level 7, and every four levels thereafter, this damage bonus increases by 1d6.

On the Watch: At level 3, once per week, the guard can go a full night without sleeping without suffering any penalties.

Double Readiness: At level 4, whenever a guard readies an action, he/she may choose two separate actions, with separate triggers, and later act on either one of them. Whenever the opportunity to make one of the actions presents itself, the guard can choose to wait, to see if an opportunity for the other action presents itself, the first action is then considered lost. The guard cannot perform both actions. For example, a guard could choose to use his/her standard action to ready an action to counter the attack of the dragon in front of him/her, while simultaneously readying another action to attack the dragon if it tries to casts a spell. This ability can be used to ready the same action twice, with different triggers, such as readying to counter the attacks of two different enemies. At level 12, the guard can ready three actions this way.

Bonus Feat: At level 5, and every four levels thereafter, the guard selects a bonus combat feat. He/she must meet all the prerequisites for these feats.

Efficiency: At level 5, a guard can make a free action as part of a readied action. This means that the guard can ready one action (standard, move, swift, free), plus one free action, that must be spent right before or after the readied action. For example, the guard can ready to drop his/her weapon as a free action and strike an enemy with an unarmed strike as a standard action. The guard can make only one free action this way.

Practical Knowledge: At level 5, a guard can use his/her wordly knowledge to his/her advantage. He/she can make knowledge checks untrained and he/she also gains a number of simple abilities based on each one of his/her knowledge skills. The guard can:

- Use Knowledge (Dungeoneering) instead of a spellcraft check to identify a spell as it is being cast. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to the guard's intelligence modifier.
- Use Knowledge (Engineering) instead of a disable device check. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to the guard's intelligence modifier.
- Use Knowledge (Geography) to travel for extra time without it being counted as a forced march (dc 10+3 for every extra hour). The guard can lead others in this travel, giving them the same bonus. The guard can lead a number of people equal to twice his/her intelligence modifier.
- Use Knowledge (History) to attempt to identify a creature that would normaly require a different knowledge check to identify. This ability is usable once per day at level 5, and one additional time per day for every five levels after five.
- Use Knowledge (Local) to gather information as if using diplomacy. This only takes half the time from normal (1d2 hours).
- Use Knowledge (Nature) instead of survival to follow tracks. This ability is usable a number of hours per day equal to the guard's intelligence modifier.
- Use Knowledge (Nobility) instead of an intimidate check to influence someone's attitude. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to the guard's intelligence modifier.


Calculated Combat: At level 6, as a full round action, the guard may make one attack with a -5 penalty and ready an action to make an ordinary attack or a counter. At level 11, the guard can make one additional attack as part of this full round, with a -10 penalty and at level 16, the guard can make a third attack, with a -15 penalty.

Combat Training: At level 8, a guard counts half his/her guard level as a fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats.

Careful Steps: At level 9, a guard can take two five foot steps per turn. However, if the guard has moved that turn, he/she still cannot take any five foot steps. While in difficult terrain, the guard can still take one of these steps. If the guard has any ability that allows him/her to take a five foot step through difficult terrain he/she can take both steps through difficult terrain.

Greater Efficiency: At level 13, the guard can take both of his/her five foot steps as part of a readied action. The guard can only do this if he/she has not taken both of the five foot steps during his/her turn.

Precise Footwork: At level 16, a guard can both move and take one of his/her five foot steps on the same turn.

Always Prepared: At level 20, a guard can once per round attempt to counter an attack (using standard counter rules) without having readied an action to counter it. The guard can only counter one single attack in this way, not a full attack round and the guard can not use this ability while flat footed.

Amnoriath
2013-11-26, 11:09 PM
I have to say quite a good start for your first homebrew class. The mechanics are solid and definitely encourages strategic play(a truly smart fighter) in which most straight up martial classes don't do. I would put it at a high tier 4, the action economy is definitely frees up a lot as well as uniquely planning in the midst of battle but it really needs to find other abilities to be able to ignore mundane hamperings/restrictions as well as perform well outside of combat. However, items can help with that if not the others in the party.

KitsuneBoxing
2013-11-27, 07:39 AM
I have to say quite a good start for your first homebrew class. The mechanics are solid and definitely encourages strategic play(a truly smart fighter) in which most straight up martial classes don't do. I would put it at a high tier 4, the action economy is definitely frees up a lot as well as uniquely planning in the midst of battle but it really needs to find other abilities to be able to ignore mundane hamperings/restrictions as well as perform well outside of combat. However, items can help with that if not the others in the party.

Thank you!

I don't really understand what you mean by "mundane hamperings/restrictions". Could you be more specific?

My thought has been that being intelligence based they will at least get some skill points that will help them perform outside of combat. That said it certainly would be fun to throw in some additional class feature that would help them with that.

Ethereal Gears
2013-11-27, 09:01 AM
I approve of the Guard! Now the lore warden has some competition in the brainy fighter department. As far as mundane hamperings and restrictions go...well, not going to try to interpret Amnoriath's words for him/her, although it just struck me that abilities to gain resiliency against debilitating conditions, difficult terrain and combat maneuvers etc. would add a nice, flavorfully appropriate touch to the class. I know there're some preparations like that, but they do tend to focus on the actively offensive and/or tactical.

KitsuneBoxing
2013-11-27, 09:18 AM
it just struck me that abilities to gain resiliency against debilitating conditions, difficult terrain and combat maneuvers etc. would add a nice, flavorfully appropriate touch to the class.

I agree. And i certainly don't have any problems with adding more preparations to deal with these things. As far as combat maneuvers are concearned i was thinking that being full bab they would not fall behind in the cmd department, also there's the defend against maneuvers tactic. But they could certainly do with additional bonuses, and i'm thinking about changing the counter ability so it can counter combat maneuvers from the beginning (now you need the "counter maneuver" preparation).

As for the debilitating conditions all they have now is basically the "calmness" ability wich is very good of course, but not solving the problem of having a bad fortitude save. So yeah, they definately need something against conditions... Not sure whether it should be a preparation or some other ability.

As for the difficult terrain they definately need something here. I think i'll add some preparation for it and also change it so that when they get their "careful steps" ability at level 9 they can also take one five foot step in difficult terrain.

Thanks for the tips!

Amnoriath
2013-11-27, 09:41 AM
I agree. And i certainly don't have any problems with adding more preparations to deal with these things. As far as combat maneuvers are concearned i was thinking that being full bab they would not fall behind in the cmd department, also there's the defend against maneuvers tactic. But they could certainly do with additional bonuses, and i'm thinking about changing the counter ability so it can counter combat maneuvers from the beginning (now you need the "counter maneuver" preparation).

As for the debilitating conditions all they have now is basically the "calmness" ability wich is very good of course, but not solving the problem of having a bad fortitude save. So yeah, they definately need something against conditions... Not sure whether it should be a preparation or some other ability.

As for the difficult terrain they definately need something here. I think i'll add some preparation for it and also change it so that when they get their "careful steps" ability at level 9 they can also take one five foot step in difficult terrain.

Thanks for the tips!

Your bonuses are fine, while tactics are small bonuses they add up really quickly when you get enough of them to trigger, just focus on the last two things you said here. I meant what Ethereal Gears said.
In addition yes this will have decent skill points but that doesn't mean you will be the master of any one of them in the party or master of what the skill is suppose to do(hence why you see spells even if they don't give bonuses to skills say they replace them). I am not saying be the rogue or the ranger, but this does have a certain knowledgeable and read a person flair which could give some quick insight to any situation in which the other two don't have.

KitsuneBoxing
2013-11-27, 10:31 AM
Ok, i have added the changes i suggested to the "counter" ability and the "careful steps" ability. I also added two new preparations to deal with difficult terrain and conditions: "planned route" and "stoic".


yes this will have decent skill points but that doesn't mean you will be the master of any one of them in the party or master of what the skill is suppose to do(hence why you see spells even if they don't give bonuses to skills say they replace them). I am not saying be the rogue or the ranger, but this does have a certain knowledgeable and read a person flair which could give some quick insight to any situation in which the other two don't have.



I completely agree with this and things will be added in the future to make the class more adept at out of combat skill use, especially focusing on reading people and getting information. As for now, i have changed it so that "watchful eye" lets you add half your level to sense motive as well as perception, wich is a start.

Haldir
2013-11-27, 04:16 PM
This seems like a good class for an anti-caster mechanic I have been mulling over, which could bring your class into T3 territory: Ready an action to Jump/Fly/Reflex Save out of a spellcasters LoS at the precise time to negate the effect.

I mean, even spells that target creatures need to be aimed at some level/time/way that can be countered, right?

KitsuneBoxing
2013-11-27, 04:26 PM
This seems like a good class for an anti-caster mechanic I have been mulling over, which could bring your class into T3 territory: Ready an action to Jump/Fly/Reflex Save out of a spellcasters LoS at the precise time to negate the effect.

I mean, even spells that target creatures need to be aimed at some level/time/way that can be countered, right?

I don't really understand how your mechanic works, but it sounds very interesting.

There isn't much written in the class about countering spells, but really (at least that's the idea) this is because that's basically what the readied action system is allready good for. Ready to attack the wizard if he/she casts a spell, in wich case said wizard will have to make a concentration check with a dc of 10+ damage dealt+ spell level. that is to say a very difficult one.

The guard will automatically become good at this, since he/she is so versatile at readying actions.

I'm sure you understood that allready, and i just didn't understand quite what you meant. Could you explain your mechanic idea more thuroughly?

Haldir
2013-11-27, 04:31 PM
Many spells that target creatures, such as Magic Missile, still require line of sight to activate, most of the time. The Guard changes this against a certain character he or she prepares against, perhaps.

KitsuneBoxing
2013-11-29, 11:42 AM
This seems like a good class for an anti-caster mechanic I have been mulling over, which could bring your class into T3 territory: Ready an action to Jump/Fly/Reflex Save out of a spellcasters LoS at the precise time to negate the effect.

I mean, even spells that target creatures need to be aimed at some level/time/way that can be countered, right?


Many spells that target creatures, such as Magic Missile, still require line of sight to activate, most of the time. The Guard changes this against a certain character he or she prepares against, perhaps.


I added two new preparations, "supernatural dodge" and "supernatural dodge, greater". These will do something that is at least similar to what you mean, and i would be happy to hear your opinion. Your example was magic missile and they still can't protect against that but i think they're definately good enough to select and really disturb a caster with when you are unable to attack him/her to force a concentration check.

JKTrickster
2013-11-30, 05:49 PM
This is a great class!

The best part is the Sword and Board synergy that the class has - could this be expanded upon? I feel like Sword and Board is so underused and you have a really interesting way of making it worth it :smallbiggrin:

Some of the preparations seems a little too niche (but most of them are okay)

I think Reveal the Hidden should naturally scale up at level 10 or 12 - as written it doesn't compete well with other Preparations. It also overlaps a lot with Battlefield Overview a lot.

Foothold seems very niche....I imagine you would use it after disarming someone?

There is an obvious synergy between Back to Center and Get Ready and Efficiency...but I'm not sure if they are viable enough for anything other than quickly equipping a shield for the bonuses. How did you envision these would be used?


I like the mechanic of Readying an Action then using Distance to try and get back to the top of the Initiative order. Is there a reason why you felt Readying an Action should supersede Distance?

Maybe there could be a Preparation that reverses that?


If you feel that this class isn't strong enough power wise, perhaps you can have a "Preparation swapping" mechanic. It shouldn't be anything too strong or outrageous. E.g. He can swap 1 Preparation per day at level 5. Swap 2 per day at level 10, etc.

This allows you to keep some of the Preparations more niche and still let the class feel strong.

I think it makes sense because the Guard is preparing for each day - and sometimes he'll have to change those preparations when the situation demands it.

Another alternative would be Warblade-style Int bonus to various stats. But that's more boring in my opinion.

But that's just my two cents!

KitsuneBoxing
2013-11-30, 06:50 PM
Some of the preparations seems a little too niche (but most of them are okay)

You're right that the preparations are quite uneven in power, and i'll certainly fix some of that, change reveal the hidden as you suggested for an example and maybe merge some together or make some of them more powerful. Basically when i first started making the class i needed a list with some length to get a feel for what a preparation would be and i threw in just about anything i could think of that i thought would make a cool ability. So there isn't a whole lot of thought behind all the preprations in the sense of making them work in a build. But as i said and you pointed out, i'll have to fix that.


I like the mechanic of Readying an Action then using Distance to try and get back to the top of the Initiative order. Is there a reason why you felt Readying an Action should supersede Distance?

This is a difficult one for me. Your idea would certainly make the class more even and powerful, but i also like the readied action mechanic of having your order in the initiative changed, and having to play around that. I basically want this to be a class where you always have to think about what your best option is, how to divide your various actions, to make tactical thinking more important. For that reason i'll keep it for now, although you might be right, i'll see when i play it.

As for mechanics to reverse that, the closest thing now is the "perfect timing" preparation, which makes it possible to use both during the same turn (as long as you're not allready first in order). I think i'll change that one so that it's usable a number of times per encounter equal to your intelligence modifer. That should at least make you better, if not completely solve the problem.


The best part is the Sword and Board synergy that the class has - could this be expanded upon? I feel like Sword and Board is so underused and you have a really interesting way of making it worth it

Thank you. Yes, i agree that it's underused (since it's not very good, unfortunately), and i do plan to put in more preparations to help with this. Don't really know what these would be though. I'll happily take suggestions.


If you feel that this class isn't strong enough power wise, perhaps you can have a "Preparation swapping" mechanic. It shouldn't be anything too strong or outrageous. E.g. He can swap 1 Preparation per day at level 5. Swap 2 per day at level 10, etc.

This allows you to keep some of the Preparations more niche and still let the class feel strong.

I think it makes sense because the Guard is preparing for each day - and sometimes he'll have to change those preparations when the situation demands it.


Hmm, this would certainly be an idea that would work, but quite frankly it doesn't really attract me. Not really sure why though. I guess i want there to be the feel that the preparations are the results of long and hard training by the guard, something that he/she has mastered very completely. This would give me less of that feel.

I don't hate the idea though, and if i feel that there is a huge power issue after i play it, then this is one of the options that i'll consider.

I'm going to keep the class at basically this power level for now though, only adding preparations and some minor class features to broaden it. But i do count on finding it a bit lacking in the power department when i play it. I just wanna see from the playtest in what areas it needs to get better before i change anything major. Although obviosly, if anyone finds a big flaw in the class i would still change that now.

Your ideas are duly noted. Thanks a lot for your input!

Haldir
2013-11-30, 06:57 PM
Perhaps a feat would allow you reconcile the suggestion of adaptability with the extensive training required by the Preparations?

Ethereal Gears
2013-11-30, 10:01 PM
Either a feat or a prerequisite preparation. I would strongly advocate the presence of an "Extra Preparation" style feat. But indeed, a feat or preparation the fluff of which was that the guard is especially good at improvising or simply unusually adept at studying up on new tricks that grants the ability to swap a few of 'em out during the day would certainly grant the sort of tactical flexibility I'd say goes hand in hand with an Int-based warrior. Just my 2 cp, though.

JKTrickster
2013-12-01, 08:48 AM
Hmm, this would certainly be an idea that would work, but quite frankly it doesn't really attract me. Not really sure why though. I guess i want there to be the feel that the preparations are the results of long and hard training by the guard, something that he/she has mastered very completely. This would give me less of that feel.


I have a lot to say but am a little busy now. Just wanted to explain why I thought changing preparations are a part of the "feel" of the class.

Guards seem to play very proactively for a class based on reactive actions. They actively assess the strongest threats and completely able to readapt to the battlefield as it changes and evolves.

In that sense, it makes more sense that the Preparation that choose maybe 10 levels ago isn't as useful as it is right now. According the the Guard's "feel", I feel like he would have adapted a long time ago.

In short, the Guard would have slowly trained and changed his ways to adapt to much larger threats he faces as he levels up. Small adaptations to reflect his broader understanding of how to handle threats and prepare against them.



But please playtest it a little more first! This class definitely needs to be seen in action, and also out of combat as well! Maybe we can even get some out of combat utility mixed in as well!

KitsuneBoxing
2013-12-01, 12:08 PM
Ok, so the three of you want the guard to be able to exchange preparations in some way. First of all, just to be clear, i definetly see why this would make the class more powerful. So it's not a case of me thinking that there's not point to it.

I just feel that the way i'm trying to construct the class it's supposed to be smart and tactical and adaptible in its' very core rules and abilities, and the preparations are generaly there to represent either more powerful uses of these core abilities or more specific training, meant to fit together with a build, choices of feats and so on. I like this, and probably the thing that i like most about non-magical classes is that they force you to settle with what you have. Construct a build and try to live with it. To me there's nothing that feels less intelligence based about this, since i feel it forces the player to play more intelligently. To use what you have. It is in their limitations that the non-magical classes shine to me.

Obviously this is also what makes them less good than the magical ones. Less abilities, usable as many times that you want, is certainly a worse choice than more abilities usable fewer times. Also, the fewer times more abilities system is sadly often more fun to play as well, it forcing you to choose when to use your abilities, how to use them, what abilities to choose, and so one. It forces you to think.

What i have tried to do with the guard is hopefully making the few abilities you have more fun and adaptible in their use, while still not being usable only a few times per day. I feel that i have at least partially succeeded. However, there is certainly still the problem of power to deal with.

My hope is that i can keep the guard a class that, in the spirit of the non magical classes, has to choose its abilities and stick with them, and that the feel of being smart and adaptable comes mostly from the core abilites, rather than being able to switch your abilities around. I want the guard to be an intelligent warrior, more than an intelligence based class. If that makes any sense (probably not really).

Sorry if i'm sounding defensive. It's just because i can see the sense in what your saying. It really would make them a more powerful class, in a very easy way, and to most they would still probably feel basically the same.

However (yes, this did lead somewhere), i have created a new preparation that i hope will partially solve this. "Guard's Trick" allows you to gain all of those not very good very specific preprations at once, use them a few times all together, and also throw in ONE interchangable preparation slot in there. Hopefully this will be very good and also feel improvisational, which is the feel i've sensed that you seem to want? While still keeping the core of the class the way i want it.

Oh, and JKtrickster, i also changed battlefield overview, which certainly was quite a bad and useless preparation that you would never really choose (as well as clashing with reveal the hidden).

Thank you all for your feedback.

KitsuneBoxing
2013-12-01, 12:30 PM
Oh, and by the way. The existance of an "extra preparation" feat has been something that i have assumed from the start. They exist for all other class features of which you receive one every even level, and even for some that you gain more rarely. To not give such a feat to the guard would be a disgrace and an insult, and i would not have it!

Ethereal Gears
2013-12-01, 01:59 PM
I like the Guard's Trick preparation. The formerly independent class features integrated into it work much better in that role than as standalone choices.

There's of course a long debate to be had about why magical classes are allowed customisability where mundane ones aren't. Especially since it makes little sense that learning a new skill trick or fighting technique should in any way be more time-consuming or difficult than mastering a new spell or exchanging an old one for a new as spontaneous casters do. The tragedy of mundanes is that they get pummeled from both sides. Not only are their options (i.e. skill usage and fighting styles) on their own less versatile and have decreased narrative power compared to spells, but they're also expected to willingly sacrifice versatility within this already limited domain. This is all done in the name of some sense of realism that magical classes, by simple virtue of being magical, are given free reign to utterly ignore.

That being said, this thread is not the place for such discussion. I certainly respect anyone's desire to build a functioning martial/mundane class within the restrictions expected of such classes, nor am I unable to comprehend the desire for such a down-to-earth approach. In that regard I consider the guard a stunning success, and I think the increased versatility it has acquired via modifications during the course of this thread has added to its already solid core to make for a very interesting and fun class. To echo JKTrickster, it is more than playable and more than ready for playtesting.

KitsuneBoxing
2013-12-01, 06:07 PM
Ok, i added two abilities to the class. These are the promised ones to give it more use outside of combat. "On Watch" and "Practical Knowledge". They won't do a huge deal, but i think they're fun, although i'm sure "practical knowledge" is far from perfect.

JKTrickster
2013-12-02, 01:26 AM
Ah I understand now! I can totally support you with that - making individual Preparations stronger can definitely work and there's nothing wrong with that!

Guard's Trick is really good....Arguably every Guard would have it. I was actually wondering if you should make it into a separate ability entirely? It sounds like it.

I think we should work on the Guard's out of combat utility first. Power can normally be adjusted quite easily but versatility isn't.


Hmm On the Guard seems very restricted. Like for no real reason. Is this an issue that normally comes up during your games?

Without some kind of skill bonus, the Guard isn't really able to take advantage of Practical Knowledge. Making knowledge checks untrained starts to fail around level 5 or so?

How much versatility do you want him to have outside of combat anyway? What roles do you see him playing? I can definitely see Watchman, Scout, and Diplomat for starters.

Also do you envision Sword and Board being a large portion of this class or something more optional? I'm just wondering because we both agree that it would be cool if it had more sword and board options but I don't want that to take over your original idea.

KitsuneBoxing
2013-12-02, 09:30 AM
Hmm On the Guard seems very restricted. Like for no real reason. Is this an issue that normally comes up during your games?

No, not really, but i though it was a cool ability, and i would definetly use it as a player (spend the night time searching for information for example, or travel some short distance to deliver a message). My thought was that although the rules for not sleeping are basically never used they definetly would be if someone descided not to do it. But maybe most people wouldnt think of it that way, in which case it possibly doesnt work. Still, i'll keep it for now.


Without some kind of skill bonus, the Guard isn't really able to take advantage of Practical Knowledge. Making knowledge checks untrained starts to fail around level 5 or so?

Well, my thought wasn't that the typical guard would be able to use all of these, but would have to choose one two or three of the knowledge skills. Typically i suppose you would choose knowledge history because that's definetly the best of the abilities, and knowledge local is something that you would choose anyway (in my group anyway) and that's a useful ability. The knowledge geography one has quite a low dc, and if you just throw one rank in there sooner or later then you have a good change of traveling for a bit longer (although those rules are also rarely used, i know, but i thought it would have a cool feel and be something that would begin to matter when you did it). What i'm saying is i like the basis of the ability, but never imagined that you would be able to do all of it.


How much versatility do you want him to have outside of combat anyway? What roles do you see him playing? I can definitely see Watchman, Scout, and Diplomat for starters.

Hmm, this is a difficult question, but definetly the important one. Watchman: definetly. and i think that with the perception bonus (and the ability to stay up one night of the week) that's pretty well covered. Scout: is more of the ranger job, but i think that a guard should be able to fill that role in a ranger less party with a bit of effort. Diplomat: no, not really. Or not that i had in mind at least. I mean, they don't even get diplomacy as a class skill and most builds won't have a lot of charisma.

I want to make them moderatly versatile outside of combat. Certainly no bards or rogues, but perhaps bordering on the ranger. However, i want their skill use to be quite focused on knowlede, information gathering, keeping watch and reading people. I hoped that the practical knowledge ability would begin to solve that, although i put it toghether quite quickly and i'm sure that some of its' abilities are not good enough to even consider putting ranks in a skill for and should be changed. I also would not have anything against putting some additional class abillity in, but it's been hard to come up with things in the area that i want.


Also do you envision Sword and Board being a large portion of this class or something more optional? I'm just wondering because we both agree that it would be cool if it had more sword and board options but I don't want that to take over your original idea.

I don't plan to add any non optional class feature that forces you or encourages you to fight sword and board, if that's what you mean? Don't see how else it would take over my original idea. No, i plan to add everything in the form of preparations. I envision maybe two more very good preparations existing that focuses entirely on shield fighting, one more that you can take whenever, and one at higher levels. I think that any more would just make you feel that you don't get to choose your own preparations as a sword and board fighter and if the two are good enough then this should be able to make sword and board a very good option. As i've said, i don't know exactly what these abilities would be though. If you have any suggestions i really would love to hear them.

Thanks agains for the input!

KitsuneBoxing
2013-12-03, 07:52 PM
I changed the "practical knowledge" feature a little bit, basically imoproving and changing some of the abilities and making it so that it differs from ability to ability how many times per day you can use them.

I'm also thinking of giving the guard some sort of skill bonus to knowledge skills, maybe even add half level to all knowledge skills that are class skills. That, or choose one or two knowledge skills to gain a bonus in, like choose one at level whenever to add twice your intelligence modifier to, and then another skill at level later, and another, maybe totaling four knowledge skills.

What are your thoughts about this?

Amnoriath
2013-12-04, 01:03 PM
I changed the "practical knowledge" feature a little bit, basically imoproving and changing some of the abilities and making it so that it differs from ability to ability how many times per day you can use them.

I'm also thinking of giving the guard some sort of skill bonus to knowledge skills, maybe even add half level to all knowledge skills that are class skills. That, or choose one or two knowledge skills to gain a bonus in, like choose one at level whenever to add twice your intelligence modifier to, and then another skill at level later, and another, maybe totaling four knowledge skills.

What are your thoughts about this?

I wouldn't, the bard already has this as one of its name-sake features. The ability to substitute these rather obscure knowledge checks for something far more practical is quite decent enough. It isn't really one of this classes name-sake abilities and it is questionable whether it plays much of a role in the theme of the class so I personally wouldn't give a new mechanic to increase this feature.

Ethereal Gears
2013-12-04, 01:18 PM
Hear, hear. Practical Knowledge is a neat and fun ability that's a refreshing take on the skill-substitution mechanic introduced via the versatile performance class feature of bards. It's good enough on its own; no need to tack on any pseudo-bardic knowledge as well.

KitsuneBoxing
2013-12-04, 02:37 PM
Ok, i guess your right about the knowledge bonus. Probably only bards should get this. However, the reasing that i wanted to put it in i think still stands.

JKtrickster has a point in how restricted the "practical knowledge" ability is. I wrote it like that, so i should have no problem with it, but i realized that if i want the ability to be enough to give the guard out of combat utility (as far as non selectable class features go) then throwing in something to make it easier to use knowledge skills that you don't have full ranks in would be nice.

Because really, although being intelligence based, i would say that the general guard won't have a crazy amount of intelligence. You need strength for attack, dex for ac and attacks of opportunity and con to survive. I would think that my avarage guard would start with int 14. This does not give a HUGE amount of skill ranks, and also does not really work well with making knowledge checks untrained. Later on you will boost this with headbands and so on of course, but i feel that with the int that the guard has now "practical knowledge" probably won't be enough to give him/her the amount of out of combat utility that i would want.

That said, you're probably right about the knowledge bonus thing, you don't want the class to feel like a schoolar. But for me, a problem still remains.

Am i paranoid? Is there a good solution to this? Maybe i'm underestimating "practical knowledge"?

Anyway, thanks as always for the critisism.

Ethereal Gears
2013-12-04, 03:44 PM
Practical Knowledge isn't overly broad in its scope, though it will come in handy during a campaign, I'd say. Almost all of the checks it substitutes a Knowledge check for are of a sort that'll come up a lot in a campaign. That being said, I understand if you're worried that the guard won't be skilled enough to make perfect use of it.

For starters, I say give the poor guys 6 skill ranks per level. If it's good enough for rangers, eh? You could make 2 of them only be available for Int-based skills, like the Lore Warden does, if you feel that fits your flavor more.

That won't patch up everything, but I think it'd be a good start. Like you said, this class won't be getting up above 16 Int before magic items any time soon. Maybe they could somehow accrue skill bonuses by observing things in some way. Don't know how that'd work. Like an observation pool you can fill up throughout the day or something like that. Just an idle musing, but that might be along the lines of what you're looking for. Would fit their flavor better than a flat Knowledge-boost, which as you said does have some sort of scholarly feel about it.

KitsuneBoxing
2013-12-04, 03:54 PM
For starters, I say give the poor guys 6 skill ranks per level. If it's good enough for rangers, eh? You could make 2 of them only be available for Int-based skills, like the Lore Warden does, if you feel that fits your flavor more.

Yes, i think i'll actually do that. No need for the int based demand either, i think. Practical knowledge will make it good enough to put your ranks in knowledge skills that there's no need. And i don't mind lots of ranks in other skills as well.

This will certainly make them very skilled, but that's fine, it's not the best class skill list ever and it will make them feel more smart.

Thanks!