[spoiler] Miko's future

[theKOT]

This thread is for the discussion of Miko's future in general, seeing as so many threads that mention her digress to this course eventually. Please no "Die Miko Die!" posts or "Miko becomes queen of all eternity!" or anything short and uninteresting like that.

I theorize that Miko's recent illogical conclusion that the OOTS are evil lackeys of Xykon is partly due to her character and partly due to the need to keep her after the OOTS. You see, I think the OOTS will leave just before Xykon's army(and Miko) show up. Xykon will then destroy the city(and accidently the gate), and Miko will somehow survive. Once she no longer has a liege or group she will vow to track down the OOTS. This she will do because she deduces that they were the cause of the invasion. After following the OOTS around for the rest of the comics, she will once again meet up with them during the final struggle. Somehow she will learn of her error and in the end, sacrifice her life to give the OOTS a chance at victory. Sure, it has lots of holes and isn't very fleshed out, but that's basically the way I see it going.

Howabout you?

[TinSoldier]

Sounds good to me! I really can't think of anything else but then again I was rather surprised by the last Miko story arc.

I doubt she will join up with the LG or with Xykon. She will remain a loner dedicated to doing what she thinks is right no matter what. It will be interesting to see at what point (if ever) she discovers the OotS are not the duplicitous beings she thinks they are and instead joins their cause to help save the universe.

Or, more Gollum-like, she attempts to stop the OotS from doing whatever is necessary to save the universe but unwittingly does it herself and perishes in the act.

Hmm.

[mockingbyrd7]

Hmm. Pretty good... yeah. Man, I'm tired. I gotta go to bed.

[The Wanderer]

I think Miko is well on her way to falling from grace, so to speak. We've seen by now that she has a dark side, and judging by the way Belkar was able to provoke her and her dislike for the Order because they stood by their teammate, (including rejecting Durkon's gentle words and advice), that it's not that hard to get it to come out.

I think Miko's always been far more lawful than good, as Roy pointed out. That lawful side and desire for order and control is a big part of what keeps her from letting that dark side out more and acting on her own impulses and desires. If Azure City falls, (and it looks like it will), then without a liege or people she's suddenly going to be unleashed to do whatever the little devil that sits on her shoulder wants. If things go down that way, she's going to be very dangerous indeed.

[Haruki-kun]

very nice theory, but there is just one problem with it (OK, it might not be a problem, because I don't remember everything exactly as it is, but this is what I think):

Xykon is not out to destroy the city. If he destroys Azure City, even if Miko survives and vows to kill the entire OOTS, Xykon will get ahold of the gate and you know what happens. He controls the universe, maybe destroys it for the heck of it, and then it's all over. it doesn't matter who she's chasing then because everyone is DEAD.

[theKOT]

very nice theory, but there is just one problem with it (OK, it might not be a problem, because I don't remember everything exactly as it is, but this is what I think):

Xykon is not out to destroy the city. If he destroys Azure City, even if Miko survives and vows to kill the entire OOTS, Xykon will get ahold of the gate and you know what happens. He controls the universe, maybe destroys it for the heck of it, and then it's all over. it doesn't matter who she's chasing then because everyone is DEAD.
Yeah, my point was in the battle, I see Azure city being destroyed, and by some accident, the gate going with it. I don't mean everything is reduced to rubble, but Shojo's palace and the surrounding area will be devestated at least.

[TinSoldier]

Or maybe Miko destroys the gate as her last heroic act before Xykon gets control of it.

[The Wanderer]

Yeah, the series won't end at Azure City... afterall the Oracle knew that Xylon would go to Azure City first, but also said that Xylon would go on to at least one of the other Gates... so whatever happens with the attack on Azure City, the world won't end there.

[theKOT]

Or maybe Miko destroys the gate as her last heroic act before Xykon gets control of it.
That's good too, but as a Mikopologist, I want the OOTS to feel a little bit of remorse for how they treated Miko, and that wouldn't provide that.

[TinSoldier]

That's good too, but as a Mikopologist, I want the OOTS to feel a little bit of remorse for how they treated Miko, and that wouldn't provide that.Well if they somehow found out about it some might feel remorse and others definitely would not.


(ironic)If anything happens to her, anything at all, I swear to you, I will get very choked up. Honestly, there could be tears.(/ironic)

But maybe my first prediction but in the process she saves Belkar's life. Now that would be irony. If it was done right.

[teratorn]

I view sort of a Ronin-like setting. Azure city falls, Lord Shojo kills himself taking the gate with him to prevent Xykon from truly winning. Xykon leaves, and raising from the rubble Miko stands alone and miserable. When she is going to kill herself for having failed, the ghost of Shojo appears and tells her that before being allowed to kill herself she needs to avenge his death and stop Xykon. And there she goes, as a samurai without master. She'll eventually die in the last great battle saving the world and the OOTS. It is cliched enough for the OOTS but it seems way too dark for the kind of strip we had so far.

[Ampersand]

Wow...you know, Wanderer, when I started reading your post I started rolling my eyes. Then I dern near fell out of my chair when I saw that the main premise of your post wasn't "Miko will fall because she's a big mean poopie head". So thanks for the pleasent surprise. :smallsmile: (I also approve of your Hohenheim of Light avatar)

That said, you make a good point...Miko does have a temper, and if anything gets her into trouble, that will be it. Paladins aren't Jedi, however...they are allowed to get angry, and unless she is seriously provoked I think she has enough control to stop herself before she takes that one irrevesible step.

And you're right, it will be interesting to see how see reacts if/when the Azure City institutions that give her life structure are damaged or destroyed.

One thing we need to ask ourselves is whether or not attacking the OotS as they go about their mission would be considered an evil act. Miko almost certantly will do so at some point, but she's also acting on erronious information and assumptions. Now, granted her own dislike of the OotS colored the assumptions she made, but given the information available to her (not least of which is the fact that they willingly associate with a Chaotic Evil murderer, and interfered in her dispensment of justice) I don't think they're entirely unreasonable.

KOT: I agree, I'd like to see the OotS have to make ammends with Miko (and, to be fair, she would need to make an effort to reach out to them too), the fact that if she's not outright KoS to four of them (Belkar would want to torture her first, and while Durkon probably wouldn't fight her directly he probably would at least support his allies in any Round Three that might occur) they'd at least try to get her killed through accidents, neglect, locking her in a room with a PO'ed ancient red dragon, etc. would probably make that rather hard.

[Charles Phipps]

My hope is she ends up with the Dwarf.

:-)

[Demented]

They'd first have to realize having mistreated her to regret something. Though, there's plenty of time for that to happen. (The best misunderstandings are the ones that occur less than five minutes before a unexpected tragedy.)

Personally, I'm hoping that either her story arc gets resolved very soon, or, if we have to have Miko still running around after Azure City is thrashed up, that she's not quite the tensed up knot she's been–either more humble, or on a shorter leash. Though I could just as much look forward to the latter... we're hardly short on Paladin jokes yet!

[TinSoldier]

I view sort of a Ronin-like setting. Azure city falls, Lord Shojo kills himself taking the gate with him to prevent Xykon to truly win. Xykon leaves, and raising from the rubble Miko stands alone and miserable. When she is going to kill herself for having failed, the ghost of Shojo appears and tells her that before being allowed to kill herself she needs to avenge his death and stop Xykon. And there she goes, as a samurai without master. She'll eventually die in the last great battle saving the world and the OOTS. It is cliched enough for the OOTS but it seems way too dark for the kind of strip we had so far.Wow. Just seeing that in The Giant's art would give me a total Mikogasm. Seriously.

[The Wanderer]

Wow...you know, Wanderer, when I started reading your post I started rolling my eyes. Then I dern near fell out of my chair when I saw that the main premise of your post wasn't "Miko will fall because she's a big mean poopie head". So thanks for the pleasent surprise. :smallsmile: (I also approve of your Hohenheim of Light avatar)

That said, you make a good point...Miko does have a temper, and if anything gets her into trouble, that will be it. Paladins aren't Jedi, however...they are allowed to get angry, and unless she is seriously provoked I think she has enough control to stop herself before she takes that one irrevesible step.

And you're right, it will be interesting to see how see reacts if/when the Azure City institutions that give her life structure are damaged or destroyed.

One thing we need to ask ourselves is whether or not attacking the OotS as they go about their mission would be considered an evil act. Miko almost certantly will do so at some point, but she's also acting on erronious information and assumptions. Now, granted her own dislike of the OotS colored the assumptions she made, but given the information available to her (not least of which is the fact that they willingly associate with a Chaotic Evil murderer, and interfered in her dispensment of justice) I don't think they're entirely unreasonable.

Thanks for the praise! (And Hohenheim is one cool bastard, eh? :) )

Now note, I didn't say that Miko will "fall" all the way to becoming evil, but I think she's going to certainly come to a fork in the road where she has to makes the choice. The fact that she knows, knows for a fact from her scans of the Order back when she first met that they're not evil, (with the exception of Belkar) and yet leaps to what theKOT calls an "illogical conclusion" about them being associated with Xylon shows that she's certainly prejudiced against them, and even wants to believe the worst of them because of her grudge.

Miko does have control, certainly, but she's also intense and tightly wound. That sort can be very unpredictable when they have a trauama or loss inflicted on them... and many, from my experience with both real people and fictional characters, tend to lash out. The OOTS is probably going to wind up being the target of Miko's lashing out. But what will happen, what'll she do when she catches up to them? That's going to be a big key to the end of the series, methinks.

[donkyhotay]

I'm guessing miko will either fall from grace or end up replacing someone. Personally I would prefer to see her fall and become a blackguard or something similar but if roy were to die (or is already dead after the parcheezi game) she is the only character I can see possibly picking up where roy ends.

[Ampersand]

... but if roy were to die (or is already dead after the parcheezi game)...

That's a pretty high stakes game of Parcheezi...

[baltor85]

Who's saying that she chooses to go evil?



Ok, seeing as I've never played D&D before, I'm probably going to go wrong here, but I think the Giant just revealed Miko's future in the last strip.
Now(once again, making this up-ish), considering Miko's past and how she was turned so easily into believing that the OOTS was evil, this is the basis for my theory.

Before the big Azure City Battle, the LG will be taken to Azure city. This was revealed in 399. And whilst Shojo can be taken for stupid, I believe he would know that the LG should be guarded heavily. Most likely he would assign Miko to guard.

Somehow, I think Nale would be able to get out of his anti-magic prison cell for just long enough to use Charm on Miko, and seeing how easily she has come to dislike the OOTS, and how much she dislikes them, she would believe Nale. If Nale hears just a little bit about her dislike for the OOTS, he might try to Charm her into believing that the LG were good, against the OOTS, yaddah yaddah yaddah.

The rest of my theory is similar to the others: In the final battle she realizes she was wrong in believing Nale and she turns good in time to get killed saving someone's life. Yah.


Basically, I just pulled that theory out my ass, but it has some logic behind it. Let me know if paladins anti-charm thingy is really high or something.

[Kish]

Somehow, I think Nale would be able to get out of his anti-magic prison cell for just long enough to use Charm on Miko, and seeing how her constitution or whatever the heck lets you resist those spells has been shown to be low,
Huh? :smallconfused:

What are you referring to? When was it shown to be low?

As a monk/paladin, all her saving throws are pretty much through the roof, and I can't think of a single time when she's failed any of them.

[Querzis]

I think she is gonna be the new Linear Guild member. After all, she think the OOTS are evil so when she is gonna hear that three people are imprisonned because they tried to destroy the OOTS many times, she will probably think they are good guys or at least she will want to speak with them. And since Nale got so many rank in bluff, I'm pretty sure he is gonna be able to convince her. Since she is a great warrior and a really good minion, Nale is gonna want to keep her, even if that mean they will have to hide the fact that they are evil to her. I'm pretty sure Nale and Sabine can easely do this but I wonder how Nale is gonna be able to control Thog from going on boredom driven rampage.

Anyway, after that, anything can happen. Maybe she is gonna realize the Linear Guild are evil at the worst time possible, maybe she is gonna lose her paladin power, maybe she is gonna kill Belkar or be killed by Belkar...Who know? But I'm almost sure she is gonna join the Linear Guild because:

1: The Linear guild dont have any opposite for Belkar right now, who could possibly be a better opposite for Belkar then Miko?

2: I really dont see any other way for Nale, Sabine and Thog to get out of jail. Leeky and Pompey are not gonna help them and except if the gate is near the prison, Xykon just wont go there and wont be able to save them. But a paladin who hate the OOTS could save them.

3: The Linear Guild isnt a group of evil people, its a group of people who love «Taking disproportionate revenge over quasi-imagined slights». http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0257.html
All the member of the Linear Guild, except maybe Thog, are like this and Miko is like this too, even if she is lawfull good.

4: She hate all the members of the OOTS so she would probably like their opposites. I'm pretty sure the members of the Linear Guild are gonna like her too...especially Pompey.

[baltor85]

Err. I should edit that, now that I'm off my coca-cola driven high.


I meant to say basically that she came to the wrong conclusion about the OOTS pretty fast. She already has a small motive to track down the OOTS, and Nale could make that into an obsession with his many points in bluff(As the person above stated :D)


Oh, and she seems to like believing people she just met. She believes Belkar in #203, about the culture thing, and she believes that Roy would only do something lawful with the GP in #207. Also,the whole "Scales not shiny"thing could be a big lie, and she believes it. She just seems to see the greater good in any person.

[TinSoldier]

Except she is trigger-happy enough with her Detect Evil ability to ever willing join the Linear Guild.

[Querzis]

Except she is trigger-happy enough with her Detect Evil ability to ever willing join the Linear Guild.

I'm not so sure about that. We just saw her using her detect evil on the OOTS since she didnt knew them so she truly had to know their alignement and she tried to use it lots of time on Belkar because she had doubt about him. But if she see people that she is already sure that they are evil or good, I'm not sure she is gonna do it. After all, she didnt do it on redcloak, mitd, the ogre or the dirt farmer. Beside, she already had problem with the law because of her detect evil so I really dont think she is gonna use it without a reason.

[theKOT]

But Miko was dedicated enough to duty to stop, in the middle of a battle, and do as her lord commanded. She is a paladin, whether you like it or not. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0285.html) I can't see her allying with Nale. Additionally, to the "Scales are shiny" thing, almost every member of the OOTS has said even worse things in throwaway, end-of-comic gags. I wouldn't take it to seriously.

[hanzo66]

One thing I believe about Miko is that the universe hates her (sounds familiar).


She's probably going to have all sorts of crap happen to her before the end.

[SPoD]

It all depends on what Miko's true story function is. So far, Rich has kept it somewhat ambiguous.

If she's a hero cast as an antagonist, then she will continue down her current path until she sees that she is wrong, then switch sides to ally with the OOTS and save the day (either by sacrificing herself or not).

If she's a villain who wears the trappings of a hero, then she will continue down the current path until she can no longer be redeemed, then she will have a final battle with the OOTS where she will be killed. Whether she Falls or not, she will get to the point where it will be kill-or-be-killed for the OOTS and they will kill her.

Personally, my money is on her being a villain. She just doesn't get the screen time or insight into her motivations required to be a hero. As much as Miko fans would like this to be the story of a noble hero, I really see no support for that in the comic so far. The comic seems to go out of its way to cast her in a bad light while only technically maintaining her paladin status, which says to me that Rich sees her as a villain.

[Morty]

I actually can see the possibility of Miko falling.
If Azure City falls, and Miko survives, then maybe she'll think "Where were Twelve Gods when their worshippers were slaughtered and OoTS roams free after what they've done?!". Whithout Saphire Guard, her city and her faith, she'll fall and her only goal will be to hunt down OoTS and kill them or die trying. If LG survives destruction of Azure City it'll be possible for her to ally with LG, since they'd have same goals.

[Iranon]

I'd be hoping for something like this...

Miko's fixation with the Order of the Stick will cause her to get her priorities entirely wrong at a critical moment which will cause great harm to Azure city and possibly the death of Lord Shojo.

Without a liege, and with her social status rendered meaningless, she will be after the Order of the Stick to both extract bloody revenge and do her sacred duty.
During this, she will go too far and wilfully ignore evidence that points to their innocence (I don't think she is there yet), causing her to fall from grace (bonus points if the culmination is an attempt to kill a non-combatant Elan, due to a former mishap where Nale got the better of her). The battle ends inconclusive, or at least without fatalities.

Later, she comes crashing in right when the Order and Team Evil slug it out, under circumstances that make it too obvious for the Order to be on the right side for any amount of wilful blindness to work. She joins the good fight and becomes critical in dispatching Xykon.

Last seen riding into the sunset, either on a quest to regain her paladinhood or carve a new place for herself in the world for her after everything she once believed in crumbled in on her. Shame that it can't be on Windstriker without the DM twisting rules rather vigorously.

[Amon Star]

That's a pretty high stakes game of Parcheezi...

Well, :belkar was involved. :smallbiggrin:


3: The Linear Guild isnt a group of evil people, its a group of people who love «Taking disproportionate revenge over quasi-imagined slights». http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0257.html
All the member of the Linear Guild, except maybe Thog, are like this and Miko is like this too, even if she is lawfull good.

The LG IS a group of evil people, as well as a group of petty revenge seekers. However, as there is presedent for her working with evil, or at least attempting it, http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0189.html, it's indeed possible she would work with them.

[theKOT]

It all depends on what Miko's true story function is. So far, Rich has kept it somewhat ambiguous.

If she's a hero cast as an antagonist, then she will continue down her current path until she sees that she is wrong, then switch sides to ally with the OOTS and save the day (either by sacrificing herself or not).

If she's a villain who wears the trappings of a hero, then she will continue down the current path until she can no longer be redeemed, then she will have a final battle with the OOTS where she will be killed. Whether she Falls or not, she will get to the point where it will be kill-or-be-killed for the OOTS and they will kill her.

Personally, my money is on her being a villain. She just doesn't get the screen time or insight into her motivations required to be a hero. As much as Miko fans would like this to be the story of a noble hero, I really see no support for that in the comic so far. The comic seems to go out of its way to cast her in a bad light while only technically maintaining her paladin status, which says to me that Rich sees her as a villain.

Miko definitely isn't a protagonist, because the story isn't about her. It's simply not her story I'm telling with the comic. Whether or not she is heroic isn't relevent; to borrow from Star Wars, Admiral Ackbar might be a Good Guy and terribly heroic, but he has something like 6 minutes of screen time in all six movies; he cannot be the protagonist for the Star Wars series. Remember, "protagonist" is writing terminology, not moral evaluation.

In my mind, Miko is an antagonist, simply because she is an obstacle that the true protagonists of the story (the OOTS) must deal with/overcome. I think of her kind of as an "anti-villain", a person in the villain's role who is not actually villainous.
And

Do you really know a lot about her? Or have there been so many discussions on the message boards about her that you just THINK you know a lot, because you've read a few million words debating her motivations?

Miko has appeared 44 times out of 301 strips. Sure, that's more than anyone else not in the OOTS, but it's only 9 more than Xykon and 11 more than Nale. It is, however, 101 less than Durkon, the least featured member of the OOTS. Yes, she's appeared a lot recently, but if you had asked someone when Strip #72 was new about Nale, they might have said the same thing, because he had been in like 30 strips in a row.

Miko has ALWAYS been an antagonist because the goals of the OOTS are not, "Be righteous examples of heroism" or even "stop Xykon" (that's Roy's goal, only). The OOTS is made up of Haley (get rich), Elan (have fun), V (be respected), Roy (be the leader) and Belkar (kill!). Miko obstructed those goals for the entire time she was with the party. Only Durkon was NOT thwarted in his desires by Miko.

Protagonist doesn't mean, "Good Guy" or even "hero", it means "main character of the story". Even if their goals are less than heroic.
Although seeing as that part about goals has changed, there is still the possibility that she might team up with the heroes. Unlikely though. However, there was a previous thread in which he stated:

Let's be clear. Miko is an ANTAGONIST. She must, perforce, antagonize the Order of the Stick. That is her narrative role, the very purpose for which she was introduced.That difference between has always been and is could be a huge, or a coincidence. Interesting though. Here's that thread, by the way. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5852) Just in case you wanted to have a look for yourself.
Also, let's remember that he said in yet ANOTHER thread:

Huh. Well, I guess I did say it.

Lucky for me, my comments on the message board aren't canon and I'm allowed to change my mind later.

Nyah nyah. :P
which means that it could have been him changing his mind or something.

[Golt]

The LG IS a group of evil people, as well as a group of petty revenge seekers. However, as there is presedent for her working with evil, or at least attempting it, http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0189.html, it's indeed possible she would work with them.

No, I do not believe she would. The accident you pointed to doesn't have much of a meaning as most probably didn't use detect evil on the two. She,most probably, wanted them to join with her because she thought they were good, or at least neutral. After all they well two people tied up by a band of criminals, right? And it still didn't take too long until she realized they (or at least Samantha) were evil. And just how hard would it be to realize that a genocidal half-orc, devil-or-demon, and a more-intelligent-but-about-just-as-smart-as-his-brother egomaniac evil twin just don't quite fit to the Good Guys™ theme?

[Ampersand]

Since we're talking about Miko's future...what's the preoccupation a lot of people seem to have with her falling? Seriously, you can't even use the letters M, I, K and O in the same post without someone quoting it within three posts and saying "She's going to fall"

Is it a desire to see a fall-and-redemption story? Their idea of "punishing" her because she was mean to Our Heroes? Latent hostility towards the paladin class in general?

Just wondering because it's kinda creepy how obssesive this board in general seems to be about it...

[Mawhrin Skel]

A few points concerning Miko and the LG:


The Anti Magic field in which Nale and Sabine will be held will negate Detect Evil
That same AM field will prevent Sabine hiding her horns and bat wings - which give away her fiendish nature
Outside of the AM field, the LG will not be able to avoid Detect Evil (barring magic items)
Miko suspecting Nale is Elan may be enough for her to use DE
Miko is too Lawful and loyal to the Sapphire Guard to break someone out of their prison
It's very likely that another member of the Sapphire Guard will DE on LG before locking them up, and Miko will hear the result


So, the most co-operation I can see is Nale bluffing Miko to hate OOTS more, but Sabine would have to be kept out of the way.

As for Miko's long term fate - I go with the theory that she will antagonise the OOTS until the Final Battle, at which point she will help them defeat Xykon.

Also...


Belkar recieves Owl's Wisdom, making him a non-evil healer again
Miko recieves Owl's Wisdom, making her remove the stick from her arse and be more concerned with protecting than Smiting
Belkar and Miko thus affected meet, and fall in love
Spells expire when Miko and Belkar are... intimate


Well, it'd make me laugh.

[Jewel Thief]

I'd like Miko to do something noble. Even though she's completely against the Order of the Stick doesn't mean she has to go around and do terrible things. I'd still like her to be a villain when it comes to the order, but I'd like to see Miko do some awesome righteous ass-kicking.

[Iranon]

Since we're talking about Miko's future...what's the preoccupation a lot of people seem to have with her falling?

I for one like her character, and I would like her story (even if it's not the main story) to continue in a way that either has a satisfying conclusion or leaves room for speculation.

What I would not like seeing is her turning into a 2-copper villain. And as for blackguards... I hate it when the class is used as a cheap way out mostly 'because my character would become weaker otherwise and atonement is too much of a hassle'. Yuck.

She is apparently good to the core (that she is even more lawful doesn't challenge that) but given her parting words with the Order and the dialogue when Xykon captured her hints that she could very well have a lapse of judgement that causes her to break her code in a big manner. It doesn't have to be an outright evil or even chaotic act.

I like Miko as she is and would be happy for her saga to continue on the straight and narrow road of paladinhood.
However - She's been following that since her childhood, so much that it's questionable whether it was an actual choice or it just happened by default.
I see much more potential for character development if she strays from it.

I'd like her to see some real challenges for her. I'd like to see a Miko who is still good but who loses part of her unshakable moral confidence. I'd like her to experience something other than her ordered, black-and-white world where there is only the obvious right choice and varying degrees of evil.
Whether she chooses to return to it and regains her status having made some valuable experiences (more likely), or whether she eventually rejects it - it could be one heck of a ride.

I have a hard time imagining that without a fall from grace. Anyway, I have confidence Rich will keep me both surprised and entertained.

[Morrigain]

Miko will continue doing what she thinks is right, gradually drifting down the path of evil without realizing it. Eventually she will be a full blackguard but, sadly, still think she is a paladin.
Either that, or she will come to her senses moments before her cinematic death.

[fruityjanitor]

Sorry, this idea has probably been said before a lot, but I just wanted to throw it out there in case it hasn't.

I've never played D&D, but I've heard many threads talking about how Paladins can lose their powers by doing something evil. This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0286.html) comic makes it pretty clear that killing a wounded Belkar would likely cause Miko to lose her powers. I predict that Miko will get another chance to do this and take it, causing her to lose her powers, and then die somehow as a result of losing her powers.

This will both fulfill the Oracle's prophecy to Belkar (because he will be responsible for Miko's death, even though he didn't directly kill her) and the Oracle's comment that Belkar will die in the near future.

[Amon Star]

No, I do not believe she would. The accident you pointed to doesn't have much of a meaning as most probably didn't use detect evil on the two. She,most probably, wanted them to join with her because she thought they were good, or at least neutral. After all they well two people tied up by a band of criminals, right? And it still didn't take too long until she realized they (or at least Samantha) were evil. And just how hard would it be to realize that a genocidal half-orc, devil-or-demon, and a more-intelligent-but-about-just-as-smart-as-his-brother egomaniac evil twin just don't quite fit to the Good Guys™ theme?

What you say is true. However, as you didn't Detect Evil on Samantha & Par, then she's not to overzealous with it's use. Therefore, it might be possible for her to be tricked into working with :nale:, at least on the short term.


Also...


Belkar recieves Owl's Wisdom, making him a non-evil healer again
Miko recieves Owl's Wisdom, making her remove the stick from her arse and be more concerned with protecting than Smiting
Belkar and Miko thus affected meet, and fall in love
Spells expire when Miko and Belkar are... intimate


Well, it'd make me laugh.

ROTFL!!!

[Golt]

What you say is true. However, as you didn't Detect Evil on Samantha & Par, then she's not to overzealous with it's use. Therefore, it might be possible for her to be tricked into working with :nale:, at least on the short term.

Good point, however if she saw :nale: she could easily mistake him for :elan: as he doesn't have his goatee now. If this would happen she would probably wipe the linear guild with the floor, then ask questions. Even if she did notice difference and didn't wipe them out, then this would make :roy:'s story of evil twin's counterpart team more credible. Probably it wouldn't make her realize the mistake about OotS all of a sudden, but it would at least make using Detect Evil on LG seam a good idea. And even if she could get tricked into working with them for short time she would still wipe them out after realizing her mistake.

[Amon Star]

Good point, however if she saw :nale: she could easily mistake him for :elan: as he doesn't have his goatee now. If this would happen she would probably wipe the linear guild with the floor, then ask questions. Even if she did notice difference and didn't wipe them out, then this would make :roy:'s story of evil twin's counterpart team more credible. Probably it wouldn't make her realize the mistake about OotS all of a sudden, but it would at least make using Detect Evil on LG seam a good idea. And even if she could get tricked into working with them for short time she would still wipe them out after realizing her mistake.

Again, all true. However, by the time :miko: meets :nale: he may have his goatee back. Also, because the OotS said they're Evil, and :miko:'s feelings towards the OotS is clouding her judgement at the moment, she may just assume they're good and not DE them.

However, I fully agree that when she discovers her mistake she will hand the collective asses of the LG to them.

[Green Bean]

Again, all true. However, by the time :miko: meets :nale: he may have his goatee back.

It's a +1 goatee of intellect. It can't grow back in an anti-magic field :smallbiggrin:

[pendell]

Is it a desire to see a fall-and-redemption story? Their idea of "punishing" her because she was mean to Our Heroes? Latent hostility towards the paladin class in general?


In my case, it's simple.

Miko is a person with a great deal of potential. She is brave, dedicated, and honorable.

However, she is also blinkered and prejudiced. A martinet. So much so that, despite being lawful good, her weak points drag her down such that she becomes an antagonist to the story's heroes ... who ARE fated to save the world from the Snarl.

This is a perfect recipe for "tragic hero", going at least back to the time of Sophocles -- the brilliant, near-immortal hero with one fatal flaw.

And I go for the "fall-followed-by-redemption" story because I prefer stories where, e.g., Darth Vader throws the Emperor down the reactor shaft and sees the error of his ways over pure "fall" stories like Oedipus, where no redemption occurs. Instead, the hero blinds himself out of remorse and spends the rest of his days in exile.

I'm an American. I like heart-warming, happy endings.

And the best possible happy ending here is for Miko to see the error of her ways and become a help to the heroes, rather than a hindrance.

However, because Miko is so over-powered compared to the rest of the cast, and because her personality is so forceful, she CANNOT be part of the OOTS. If she were to join with them, the story would become Her story. Roy would be lost in her shadow.

Which means that, as I see it, there are only a few ways this can end:

1) Miko allies with the OOTS long enough to help them, then they become enemies, with Miko vowing to get them when an opportunity presents itself, preserving the antagonist relationship. Again, using Lord Shojo as Deus Ex Machina to keep her in line. Doable, but it's been done at least twice and it can get old. Sooner or later, Miko will have to face the OOTS without some overwatching Boss to keep her in check.

Which would imply that, if Miko is to be a continuing antagonist, Lord Shojo has to be removed from the strip. What are the odds he will sic Miko on the OOTS twice? He won't, of course. If Miko is going to pursue them, it must be on her own.

2) Miko and the OOTS clash. Miko sees the error of her ways, and is removed from the story almost immediately thereafter, either by heroic death or by being banished to some other dimension or something similar. Without the tension from conflict, she's simply an overpowered character wandering around.

3) Miko sees the error of her ways, and she walks out of the story. She comes back occasionally as Deus-ex, or as a plot hook, but beyond that fades into the background.


How can Miko see the error of her ways? Not through her own reasoning or through listening to folks like Durkon. It's going to take some sort of trauma to penetrate that thick skull. Loss of powers would do it ... or the destruction of Azure city, perhaps ...

One thing I am sure is *almost certainly* not going to happen:

-- Miko fights the order of the stick, and they kill her dead-dead, no possibility of resurrection.

That's not good story-telling, and the Giant is a brilliant storyteller. In good myth, heroines (and that IS what Miko is, even if she's a misguided one) aren't killed by other good guys. If they die, they die under a mountain of monster-corpses or facing off with a Balrog. Being stabbed in the back by Belkar doesn't count as a heroic death.

---------
More thoughts:

1) Azure city has to be invaded and suffer severe collateral damage. Miko will lead Xykon to the Gate.

2) The OOTS will NOT be off-screen. C'mon, why do you think they've been made to come to Azure City despite all their attempts otherwise? They are going to be here for Xykon's invasion. And THEY will be the ones to prevent Xykon's capture of the Gate. They are the story protagonists. They are the adventuring party. Only they can stop Xykon's plot for world domination. That's what they are in Azure City to do. That is what they WILL do, because the strip is plotted to outlast this story arc.

3) Bet that Miko will be there in front of the gate. And she cannot die until she has confronted the OOTS in some manner.

It'll be interesting to see how the Giant weaves all this into a story ... I'm looking forward to it! He does this well.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Mawhrin Skel]

However, because Miko is so over-powered compared to the rest of the cast, and because her personality is so forceful, she CANNOT be part of the OOTS. If she were to join with them, the story would become Her story. Roy would be lost in her shadow.
She wouldn't be overpowered without her class abilities, and her self confidence would have taken a severe knock. So a fallen Miko could conceivably join OOTS, possibly in part to allow her to atone.

Not that I want this to happen.