Wand of mage armor

[kpumphre]

I have UMD of 11 total, and want to get rid of my armor instead going for a wand of mage armor.

What are my chances of using it, inside and out side of combat. Never used a wand before.

Sorry know it's a basic question just never used wands before. Mage armor is not on my list of known spells.

[lytokk]

with a UMD of 11, 55%. It takes a check of 20 to use a wand, if I remember right.

[kpumphre]

Could I take 10 out of combat?

[Jormengand]

I have UMD of 11 total, and want to get rid of my armor instead going for a wand of mage armor.

What are my chances of using it, inside and out side of combat. Never used a wand before.

Sorry know it's a basic question just never used wands before. Mage armor is not on my list of known spells.

If it's on your list, but you don't know it, you can cast it normally and only have to take whatever concentration checks you'd normally have to.

If not, you also have to take a UMD check DC 20, giving you an 11/20 chance of success. Apart from losing your action, there is no penalty for failure because you can't fail enough to cause a mishap, so you can take 20 (but not 10, because you can't take 10 with UMD).

[Diarmuid]

You can never take 10 on UMD (outside of specific exceptions like a Warlock's "Deceive Item" ability).

Edit - Just because he cannot trigger the penalty for failure does not mean he can take 20. Any check that has penalties for failure cannot be "taken 20" on.

[kpumphre]

Ok, but if i know I'm going in to combat I can try it outside of combat and it wont use up charges correct?

[DSmaster21]

(PF Perspective)

If I remember my reading of the rules for wands right1 the Skill DC is 20 which gives you 60% odds of success which in my opinion is perfectly acceptable2 but if you worry about it you could always wear leather and then put mage armor over it.3 If you try and you fail no prob because you4 still keep all your charges. The only worry you have is rolling a 1 which shuts down the wand for a day.

Spoilered Footnotes
1(I was going over it last night because I had just aquired a ray of exhaustion and I had to check the CL)

2(I only have UMD of 4 as a swashbuckler and I still feel that the 25% chance is worth it because if it works awesome if not I'll have to depend on my other skills. It would help determine the value of the wand to you if we had some indication of your character talents, skills, levels, etc.)

3(if you get into a fight without getting it on then you at least have +2 (No Check Penalty Either))

4(unless I misread or 3.Whatever you play is different)

[Crake]

I'm suprised at the math of this thread, at +11, you have a 60% chance, not 55%, there's 12 numbers on the dice that would result in success (remember that needing to roll an 11 = 50/50, not 10). You cannot take 10 on wands, unless you're a 4th level warlock, or somewhere in the artificer class (i think its 12?). You also cannot take 20 on a UMD check, because taking 20 gets all dice values sequentially, meaning you'd start with a 1, and if a 1 is ever a failure on a UMD check, you cannot use that item for 24 hours.

Note that mishaps only ever occur when activating blindly, so you can never have a mishap when activating a wand (or anything you've identified for that matter), no matter how badly you fail.

[Jormengand]

I'm suprised at the math of this thread, at +11, you have a 60% chance, not 55%, there's 12 numbers on the dice that would result in success (remember that needing to roll an 11 = 50/50, not 10). You cannot take 10 on wands, unless you're a 4th level warlock, or somewhere in the artificer class (i think its 12?). You also cannot take 20 on a UMD check, because taking 20 gets all dice values sequentially, meaning you'd start with a 1, and if a 1 is ever a failure on a UMD check, you cannot use that item for 24 hours.

Note that mishaps only ever occur when activating blindly, so you can never have a mishap when activating a wand (or anything you've identified for that matter), no matter how badly you fail.

To be fair, I did pass judgement after skim-reading the UMD skill and forgetting that you didn't need to beat the DC, which is why what I said is slightly out of whack.

[lytokk]

I'm suprised at the math of this thread, at +11, you have a 60% chance, not 55%, there's 12 numbers on the dice that would result in success (remember that needing to roll an 11 = 50/50, not 10). You cannot take 10 on wands, unless you're a 4th level warlock, or somewhere in the artificer class (i think its 12?). You also cannot take 20 on a UMD check, because taking 20 gets all dice values sequentially, meaning you'd start with a 1, and if a 1 is ever a failure on a UMD check, you cannot use that item for 24 hours.

Note that mishaps only ever occur when activating blindly, so you can never have a mishap when activating a wand (or anything you've identified for that matter), no matter how badly you fail.


DOH... stupid math mistake.

[DSmaster21]

I'm suprised at the math of this thread, at +11, you have a 60% chance, not 55%, there's 12 numbers on the dice that would result in success (remember that needing to roll an 11 = 50/50, not 10). You cannot take 10 on wands, unless you're a 4th level warlock, or somewhere in the artificer class (i think its 12?). You also cannot take 20 on a UMD check, because taking 20 gets all dice values sequentially, meaning you'd start with a 1, and if a 1 is ever a failure on a UMD check, you cannot use that item for 24 hours.

Note that mishaps only ever occur when activating blindly, so you can never have a mishap when activating a wand (or anything you've identified for that matter), no matter how badly you fail.

*hangs head* oops (I'm taking college algebra as a HS senior so I should be better at math but the numbers and word combo screws me up everytime)

[Zombulian]

Ok, but if i know I'm going in to combat I can try it outside of combat and it wont use up charges correct?

What? No. That's not how wands work.

[Dalebert]

Mage armor is not on my list of known spells.

But you can cast arcane spells (at all)? If so, have you thought about an eternal wand? They can be used by anyone who can cast arcane spells. Whether the spell is on your spell list doesn't matter for them. They're only slightly more expensive.

[nedz]

Try Again
Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can’t try to activate that item again for 24 hours.

The 5% chance of blocking the item for 24 hours is a general rule about UMD.

The Activate Blindly rule relates to failing by 10 or more for a malfunction.

[DSmaster21]

Ok, but if i know I'm going in to combat I can try it outside of combat and it wont use up charges correct?
What? No. That's not how wands work.

I thought if you fail the check you don't expend a charge?. I'm not sure if Kpump meant keep trying til he succeeds and only having to use the one charge or if he meant not having to expend any charges.? :smallconfused:

[Diarmuid]

Y'know, that's an interesting point I dont think I'd considered before.

If you fail the check, you simply cant activate the item and you wouldnt waste a charge. The check isnt to use it correctly, the check is to use it at all.

This brings up another thought, sorry for a bit of derailment. The Wands section no longer mentions things like command words and whatnot,




Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.


So if you find a new want, dont have the ability to identify it and activate it blindly successfully. Assuming you've successfully identified the spell effect...the next time you want to activate it you would just need to beat the DC 20 correct? You wouldnt have to activate blindly anymore?

So the only part of identifying a wand in 3.5 is figuring out what spell is in there and possibly whether it's arcane or divine?

[Zombulian]

I thought if you fail the check you don't expend a charge?. I'm not sure if Kpump meant keep trying til he succeeds and only having to use the one charge or if he meant not having to expend any charges.? :smallconfused:

Yeah I misunderstood what he was talking about. I thought he was thinking that somehow charges were only expended once you were in combat, sort of like inspiration points on Factotums.

[Crake]

Y'know, that's an interesting point I dont think I'd considered before.

If you fail the check, you simply cant activate the item and you wouldnt waste a charge. The check isnt to use it correctly, the check is to use it at all.

This brings up another thought, sorry for a bit of derailment. The Wands section no longer mentions things like command words and whatnot,




So if you find a new want, dont have the ability to identify it and activate it blindly successfully. Assuming you've successfully identified the spell effect...the next time you want to activate it you would just need to beat the DC 20 correct? You wouldnt have to activate blindly anymore?

So the only part of identifying a wand in 3.5 is figuring out what spell is in there and possibly whether it's arcane or divine?

Identifying also teaches you how to activate the wand. Each wand is activated differently. The "use a wand" UMD check is essentially, you know how to use the wand, but the wand wont activate because you don't have the spell on your list. Using that UMD function tricks the wand into thinking you have a spell list with the spell on it. This is why mundanes cant activate wands even if they know exactly how to do it.

On the other hand, if you don't know how to activate a particular wand, even if you know the spell inside it, you need to activate it blindly. Once you've done it once before, you kinda get the feel for it, which is why you get +2 on each check after activating it once, essentially reducing the DC to 23, but you always have the chance of messing up and making the wand do things its not supposed to do.

tl;dr Activate wand UMD check only works if you know how a wand functions and allows you to fake having the spell on your spell list (or having a spell list to begin with)
Activate blindly is for when you don't know how to activate an item (this includes command word items, not just spell trigger)

[Fouredged Sword]

It would also get expensive to do so. Each charge costs something like 15gp, not bad, but the bonus is capped at 1 hour, so you are likely to need 1-3 charges a day. Consider +x leather armor for cheep AC without armor check penalty, with a +x buckler.

A more optimization friendly solution is to start collecting minor armor boosting items that fit different slots. Bracers of armor +x, amulet of natural armor +x, dex boosting gloves, ect.

[Emperor Tippy]

but the bonus is capped at 1 hour, so you are likely to need 1-3 charges a day.
Only if you buy a minimum CL wand. You can buy wands with a higher CL.

Although just getting a CL 8-9 Eternal Wand (MIC) of Mage Armor does what the OP wants better. Usable three times per day for an unlimited number of days and doesn't require and UMD check.

[Chronos]

Except that eternal wands don't come in higher CL versions. The best you could do would be an eternal wand of extended mage armor, which would have a CL of 3, and thus a duration of 6 hours. Which probably would be good enough, since you can use it twice a day.

And you shouldn't worry about getting this to work in combat, because first of all, mage armor has a long enough duration that you should usually have it up before combat, and second, it's very rarely worthwhile to spend rounds in combat buffing even if it's guaranteed to work, much less when you have a significant chance of failure.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I suppose I'll ask
"What class are you" and
"Why do you need mage armor?"

[holywhippet]

Is there nobody in your party who can cast mage armor? If there is, they could use the wand on you. Otherwise, consider a custom command word magical item.

[MirddinEmris]

What? No. That's not how wands work.

I believe he means that he can try to activate them before combat and failure wouldn't eat charges, which is true.

Ninjad

[Cloud]

There is another reason people can't take 20 on activating items.

"Try Again

Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can’t try to activate that item again for 24 hours. "

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm

Edit: Swordsaged so hard, this will teach me to leave my browser open overnight.