mindbender+mindsight

[geekintheground]

i've read a lot that mindbender makes a pretty good dip because you can qualify for mindsight with it. i dont mean to question those who have greater understanding of the game than me, DOES IT? the prereq for mindsight is "telepathy special quality", and, to my knowledge, class abilities arent technically "special qualities". what am i missing? :smallconfused:

[TETanglebrooke]

class features are either special qualities or special attacks. This isn't an attack so it is a quality. It was just written clunkily because most things that have telepathy have it by way of their race rather than their class and it also prevents using a spell to trigger the feat.

[OldTrees1]

Class Features can be Special Qualities: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogre.htm#ogreBarbarian

[Wings of Peace]

i've read a lot that mindbender makes a pretty good dip because you can qualify for mindsight with it. i dont mean to question those who have greater understanding of the game than me, DOES IT? the prereq for mindsight is "telepathy special quality", and, to my knowledge, class abilities arent technically "special qualities". what am i missing? :smallconfused:

With more book delving I could give a better answer but I think I have enough to give you what you want to know. "Special Quality" is not a game term I don't believe. For reference, the SRD entry for Special Abilities (http://http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm) includes the phrase "A creature with this special quality" when describing Alternate Form. For this reason anything that meets the criteria of "Special Ability" should suffice (this definition includes class skills).

Keep asking questions. Knowing you're wrong is better than thinking you're right and saying something wrong.

[geekintheground]

thanks guys! this is really gonna help :)

[Darrin]

the prereq for mindsight is "telepathy special quality", and, to my knowledge, class abilities arent technically "special qualities". what am i missing? :smallconfused:

It depends mostly on how strictly you want to interpret the rules. Some DMs may insist on a very literal interpretation, and will only allow creatures with "telepathy" in the "Special Qualities" section of their stat block. Given the source of the feat and it's placement in that book (not in the general feats section), it could be interpreted that the designers only intended that feat to be available to creatures that already have telepathy as part of their racial abilities, such as Tsochari or Illithids.

A more liberal interpretation would be "Any kind of telepathy, either via feats, psionic powers, or class abilities, will work."

[Feint's End]

With more book delving I could give a better answer but I think I have enough to give you what you want to know. "Special Quality" is not a game term I don't believe. For reference, the SRD entry for Special Abilities (http://http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm) includes the phrase "A creature with this special quality" when describing Alternate Form. For this reason anything that meets the criteria of "Special Ability" should suffice (this definition includes class skills).

I like this explanation. I also think that "Special Quality" wasn't intended to be a game term here and that it's just clunky wording so there is some confusion.
Generally I'm a supporter of the "more liberal interpretation" and I indeed say that is RAI ... RAW? Well argueably that too but it all rises and falls with the DM interpretation of "Special Quality" and the equal named monster entry "Special Quality" (note though that after aquiring Telepathy through a classfeature, feat, etc, it would probably be in your "Special Qualities" entry too ... so I'd say it's even RAW legal).

[Uncle Pine]

Kal Brandic, the sample mindbender described in CA p56, has telepathy listed as a special quality.

[Feint's End]

Kal Brandic, the sample mindbender described in CA p56, has telepathy listed as a special quality.

While WotC usually doesn't think those entries through this should shut down even those RAW supporting ppl who disagree with it being a special quality.

But in general ... don't take those examples of characters as anything rules legal or smartly built.