rogue help in pathfinder

[Mac-Attack]

Hello im getting ready to start a pathfinder campaign and i wanted to play a rogue. This is a new class to me and i wanted to play an assassin. I dont know weather to prestige into a red mantis assassin or just a plain ol' assassin. All pazio published books are welcome. Also the other characters are unknown to me because we are doing a closed character creation, but there will be three of us with a npc ran by dm. Any tips are much appreciated.

[Kudaku]

Hi there and welcome to the forums! My first question is going to be: How tied are you to using the rogue class to make your assassin?

[Mac-Attack]

Not very tied in. I just wanted to make sure our party had some trap-finding, because i have played with the others and none of them ever played the rogue and we have always had a hard time early dealing with traps. Also the dm has told me that the npc is going to be a dwarven fighter. I think the ranger would be better, but the ranger does not have trap-finding.
And thanks for the welcome.

[magotter]

To expand upon what Kudaku is about to suggest and to get it out of the way (since it will inevitably come up), How do you feel about the Ninja (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/ninja) class?

For brevity, I'll compress the explination:
Both classes get 90% of the same features; Saves, BAB, skill points, Sneak Attack, etc. More over for Rogue Talents and Ninja Tricks, each class can freely take the abilities of the other class (Ninja can take Rogue Talents, and vice versa).

The place where they differ is that the Ninja gets Poison Use, a Ki Pool, and some minor abilities to stay hidden. Rogues get the ability to find and disable magical traps.

On the surface this seems to be a bit of a moot difference, but the Ki Pool really makes the Ninja shine. There's a friggin TON of feats, spells, traits, and gear that let you use your Ki Pool to do some rather amazing things. Also, Rogues can't take any Ninja Trick that requires a Ki Pool.

Basically, if you get the impression the DM is gonna throw a ton of traps in your way, Rogue is great. If not, in almost every other instance, take Ninja (or better yet, start off as a rogue 1, then progress Ninja to get trapfinding, +1d6 sneak, and then get all the ninja goodies. It's arguably better than the ninja capstone).


Great, now that that's out of the way, Prestige classes. If you choose to move towards Ninja, the Assassin class is wholly redundant. Ninja get poison use and can grab a Ki-fueled Invisibility at levels much earlier than an Assassin. Now, if you are not going Ninja, Assassin's not a bad choice. Poison can be fun (and downright amazing if there's an alchemist in the party), and the ability to stay invisible via Hide In Plain Sight can save your ass and make your job a breeze. The downside is that at earliest you'd hit assassin 8 at around level 13, and by then There's gonna be a smattering of True Seeing styled effects going around, which can be a bit of a magical bullet.

Of the two prestige classes, if you are set to take one or the other, I'm going to recommend Red Mantis / Crimson Assassin. Better saves, better skill points, a lot of interesting features too. Yes, you slow your Sneak progression a bit (+4d6 over 10 levels instead of +5d6) but you get a lot of really interesting crowd control features and friggin' SPELLS. Spells are always amazing, even if it's just True Strike or Grease 30 times a day. And of course, you get those spells from the Sor/Wiz List, which is the best in the game. Now, like I said before, True Seeing can be a bit of a magic bullet to your powers, but while this is the assassin's only real strength, you've always got a few other tricks up your sleeve to counteract, and are not just a one-trick damage pony. Ninja or rogue both benefit from this PrC if you want to focus on being a Merchant of Death.

[Kudaku]

Do you know anything about the campaign setting, what kind of environment you'll be spending your time in etc?

One option is to go strength-focused Urban Ranger (an archetype for the standard ranger found here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/urban-ranger)) which gains disable device as a class skill and Trapfinding on level 3. The two-weapon fighting style could work with the mantis assassin, and since sawtooth sabers can't be used with Weapon Finesse the strength and full base attack would help your attack bonus and damage output.

You could also sprinkle in some Ninja to help with the "stealthy assassin" aspect of the class. I wouldn't recommend more than two levels, but the ki pool (based on charisma) would synergize with the Mantis Assassin's spell list (also based on charisma). Swift action invisibility (from vanishing trick) is handy even if you won't be able to use it all that often.

So to summarize I'm thinking something like Ranger 3/Ninja 2/Mantis Assassin x. How does that sound?

Edit: HAH! I predicted your swordsage ambush and averted it! Well, kind of - I went primarily with ranger instead of ninja :smallwink:

[Mac-Attack]

I have no clue about the setting, but after reading i have devided to go with ranger 3, mantis assassin 10, and finish off with another class that has sneak attack, but i dont know which one yet.
Thanks for the quick reponses because im making my character later today, wish me luck.

[Kudaku]

Happy to help, good luck :smallsmile:

[HylianKnight]

Good luck! Remember, if you want Trapfinding in Pathfinder you don't need to be a Rogue. Grab yourself a pair of masterwork thieves tools, max out your Disable Device skill, and trap find away.

[Spore]

Good luck! Remember, if you want Trapfinding in Pathfinder you don't need to be a Rogue. Grab yourself a pair of masterwork thieves tools, max out your Disable Device skill, and trap find away.

Except you can't find magical traps. Still a better trade than taking a level for that.

[Kudaku]

Hence the three levels of urban ranger :smallsmile: