OotS and Magic the Gathering

[Dire Penguin]

the order of the stick characters were put into cards for the Magic the gathering card game. Check these out!

OotS Magic Cards site! (http://worddrow.wordpress.com/2006/04/09/the-order-of-the-stick-1st-edition/)

[Green Bean]

That is very cool!

[Kalessin]

That is great.
Non-legendary creature.:smallwink:

[onasuma]

That was cool. Any bets on how long until wizards force them to take it down like the sawly missed MTG editor, alas

[Vladimir]

that was pretty cool.

[the RC factor]

nice. and in Russian too

[Skydiving_Ninja]

Cool idea, but my main problem lies with color choices:

1. Durkon and Roy I can agree with. They are clearly white characters.
2. Miko. She's the embodiment of the law, so why is she blue? She should be white as well.
3. Vaarsuvius I can agree with. Definitely blue.
4. Belkar should be Green/Red. Green for his ranger status and red for his rage.
5. Elan and Haley shouldn't be blue/white. Blue/White is a far too calculating combination. I'd call Elan Red/Blue for Red's passion and blue's trickery aspects, and Haley would probably be Red/Blue for the same reasons.

[Hai-pe-neki]

A paladin like Miko blue?? The most deceitful and mind-trapping color?? I think not...

Yes a bit of red on Belkar would not be bad...

Ok for the blue both on Ealn and Haley, but not sure for the white...


Good job anyways :D

[Vladimir_Valchev]

WOW! Guys, this is my blog! :) Those are very old, actually... And the blog is not in Russian, it's in Bulgarian. Similar, but quite different. You might say that Bulgarian is similar to Russian and uses the "Russian" alphabet (Cyrillic!), but it's the opposite - the Cyrillic alphabet was firstly developed in Bulgaria. Oh, well..

I know that the cards are not accurate, according to the color pie, but I also tried to make the cards match with the characters' looks.

Also, check the other post :
Mind Flayers, Human/Dwarf Assassins, (The Thing) in the Shadow, Redcloak, Bag of Tricks! Oh my! (http://worddrow.wordpress.com/2006/04/12/the-order-of-the-stick-2nd-edition/)

[Skydiving_Ninja]

I could actually see the "Bag of Tricks" as a card...scary.

[Yzorth]

Wow. Nice. Very nice.

[vbushido]

Plains(white) is healing and protection, Miko represents neither to me. She is a torrent of animosity and seething hatred toward any evil. Her lack of subtlety and twisted sense of honor make blue fairly appropriate. Flood, feedback, and mana burn seem about her style. Oh, and she does belong to Azure City. :smallwink:

-----
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Petty power corrupts out of all proportion.

[Vladimir_Valchev]

Yup. And also, with the new "Planar Chaos" expansion, pie mismatch is a fair game.

[Shadic]

Redcloak and Xykon should be much more powerful.

Monster in the Darkness should be 6/6 or higher.

[Fenix]

Coool, MtG ! Haven´t played it for like five years though...

[Megalomaniac2]

That's so awesome, especially since they're all legendary characters, which I assume means they're extra powerful.

[Vladimir_Valchev]

Shadic, I don't agree with you. Xykon and Redcloak (and the Creature in the Shadow) are already too powerful with their abilities. Xykon isn't invulnerable - he's a lich, not a warrior. Liches, sorcerers, wizards and such have powerful abilities, and low toughness/power. Perhaps I should remove the "tap" symbol from Xykon, and make the cost "BB", though.

[Tarek]

I can just see Haley now:

:haley: "What? Sacrifice my loot? I don't get it. I mean, the individual words are understandable, but the sentence just doesn't make sense! Loot is much more important than this 'mana' stuff you're babbling about. I'll never sacrifice my loot!"

[Crystall_Myr]

MitD is a 20/20 that can't attack or block in my opinion. :smalltongue:

[blackout]

...Xykon 5/7, no block.

[Morchaint]

these look neat. Id make MitD like a ubertim, but only if you have another black creature. Red all the way for belkar.

[onasuma]

Wow, I just found it, ages ago me and some mates did an Mtg editor torny and i found my old oots deck, good times, good times.
As for all of you complaining about the colors chosen, i think they all do the characters justice. Well done old chap.

[Gnome Barbarian]

I have to say that is pretty hilarious

[Begle1]

As a long time Magic player, I think that they're all genius. Elan's card is phrased funny, though. Other than that they're perfect.


And I hope Mr. Burlew has given permission for those? If not, I think that they're quite the infringement on copy rights...

[Vladimir_Valchev]

Why? I've put his name under the name of the cards, and I'm not claiming anything, nor am I gaining any profits. :)

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Very nice! Got any more?

[Vladimir_Valchev]

Well... I'm planning on making more of them, but I'm going to use another program.

[AyuVince]

Sorry, while I find the idea of OotS-themed Magic cards very intriguing, it is obvious that the creator of these cards has no idea of the color pie whatsoever. Belkar should be black or black/red. Miko is not a seeker of knowledge nor is she deceitful, so why is she blue? And what the heck is a "non-Legendary creature"? Why does Roy have Bloodthirst if he is a white creature? That's so random.

[Silkenfist]

Plains(white) is healing and protection, Miko represents neither to me. She is a torrent of animosity and seething hatred toward any evil. Her lack of subtlety and twisted sense of honor make blue fairly appropriate. Flood, feedback, and mana burn seem about her style. Oh, and she does belong to Azure City. :smallwink:

-----
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Petty power corrupts out of all proportion.


Sorry, but No. White is not all about being nice and soft and kind. White is also about the one true righteous path, its zealous followers and the destruction of what you consider tainted.

Examples? Wrath of God, Vengenace and all other cards based on them.

[SmartAlec]

Miko is not a seeker of knowledge nor is she deceitful, so why is she blue?

Because... she wears... blue.

Ok, maybe it doesn't quite fit MtG, but seeing as it's OOTS-inspired, I don't think it's to be taken 100% seriously. :smallsmile:

[Vladimir_Valchev]

AyuVince, I know what the color pie is. I tried to capture the flavor of the OotS characters, without being a total MtG nerd. + Some of the mechanics are inspired from different scenes.

[Hyrael]

I'm not sure I approve of the colors, but the mechanics are great.

Here's my take:

:roy::White, all they way. He values order, loyalty, and heroism.
:durkon::White or W/R. While Durkon seems pure white, his being a dwarf and worshiping the god of thunder makes him at least partly red, or at least he would use red mana
:vaarsuvius::Pure Blue, all the way. no question
:elan::Green/Blue. He has the childlike innocence and simplicity of green, but his skill with illusion magic and love of music adds Blue as well. Music is G/U.
:haley:: Blue. She's intelligent, sophisticated, and has no compunctions about theft. But stealing for her isnt just about greed. its about Showing her skill as a theif, not out of maliciousness. I can see if someone wanted to make her Blue/Black.
:miko::White. All the way. and not the good kind of white either. I suppose she could be White/Blue, but not pure blue
:nale:: Black/Blue. Evil, obsessed with plans, thinks he's an evil genius.
:sabine::Black or Black/Red. Evil and passionate
:thog:: Red/Green. Does whatever he feels like, which is usualy smashing stuff
:xykon:: Black. Need I say more?
:redcloak:: Black/White. Uses dark magic to help his people and further the goals of his boss.
:mitd:: Green.
:belkar:: Black/Green. He's selfish and enjoys the suffering of others, but lacks broad ambitions toward the outsider world, and prefers to act on instinct.

[SydneyLosstarot]

i think one can use Ravnica guilds as guidelines for multicolor)


Hyrael

i'm not sure about Elan being U/G.
he's chaotic after all, so he seems more U/R to me.

Haley can be U/B, but she's no evil.
maybe she's the one to be W/G

Miko is to be W/U. She incarnates Law and Order.

Redcloak just can't be B/W
he's a goblin. So it's B/R i think.

Creature in the dark must be in fact all colors =)

[drkdstryer]

Hyrael is pretty close to pegging them all, but keep in mind that in M:tG white doesn't automatically mean good and black doesn't automatically mean evil. I think Haley's incident with the "five ordinary pebbles" puts her in black pretty easily - some greed and advancement of her own agenda, to be sure.

Any why not make Elan U/G/R? He has qualities of all three colors : )

Other than those two, I completely agree with Hyrael's color assignments.

[MReav]

:redcloak:: Black/White. Uses dark magic to help his people and further the goals of his boss.


I think Black/Red works for him. Black because of dark magic and worship of evil gods, Red because although he uses his magic to further his people, Goblins are traditionally Red (at least back when I last played)

[1337_master]

This is what I think

:roy: White all the way
:durkon: Also white, Good cleric? yeah
:belkar: Red, Red is aggresive, and...yeah
:vaarsuvius: Blue, magic and knowledge.
:haley: Probably more then one color, it's difficult
:elan: I would say blue, blue/white mabye, he may be a bard, but he is still a spellcaster

:nale: Red/blue, blue for his good magic qualities, and red for agressivness
:thog: Red, agressive, sadistic, need I say more?
:sabine: Red, Red/black Demon, aggresive, powerful, that's what red and black are about
:redcloak: Probably Red,Red/Black, he is a Goblin, And goblins are normally asociated with red, plus he is an Evil cleric, which would associate with death, clearly black
:xykon:Black, he's a Necromancer, He's black

My explanations:

Blue:blue is knowledge, and magic.
Red:red is aggresivness and power
Green:Green is about Big ****ing monsters
White, curing, also associated with spirits, celestials, and stuff like that
Black, Associated with death, Zombies, Horror, Shadows, Etc, Etc.

[Gandal]

Plains(white) is healing and protection, Miko represents neither to me. She is a torrent of animosity and seething hatred toward any evil. Her lack of subtlety and twisted sense of honor make blue fairly appropriate. Flood, feedback, and mana burn seem about her style. Oh, and she does belong to Azure City. :smallwink:

-----
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Petty power corrupts out of all proportion.


So basically, Miko = Akroma. IMO, Roy is weaker than the rest. Bushido 3 for Miko is OMGWTFBBQ (8/6 when blocked/blocking!), Durkon is also incredible. V, I can tell why it's called 'arcane,' but...it's divine magic having to do with one block in MTG, and it doesn't really fit. Haley is very good, and so is Elan.

[Vladimir_Valchev]

Well, Miko was able to kick the OotS's ass, so she has to be tough. "Arcane" refers to the Arcane Instants and Arcane Sorceries from the Kamigawa block. I plan on remaking the cards with many changes, but I need the program. IF anyone has "MtG Editor" (it was removed from the site), please PM me! :)

[Tass]

Hillarious.

If only I knew what all those new abillities meant. Bushido?? Wtf? Nah, good old rampage I know.

[Caranthir]

Well, first post here, and in a good topic :)

Here's my take:
:roy:: Totally white
:durkon:: White/red, almost the same as Roy. Red only because of being a dwarf.
:vaarsuvius:: Agreed with poster above, blue.
:elan:: Red/Blue. Blue because of illusionary magic, and red because of his chaotic and a bit crazy attitude,.
:haley:: Witty thief empowered by a noble reason. White/blue.
:belkar:: Red/Black/Green. Instinctive, reckless and mischievous, but a bit nature-aligned.
:miko::White in the same way as Takeshi Konda in Kamigawa - the evil side of white.

:nale:: Black/Blue. Dimir wannabe :)
:sabine:: Black/red, in the same way as Lyzolda from Dissension.
:thog:: Red/Green. When did Thog's pants turn purple?:smallbiggrin:
:xykon:: Black. No-brainer
:redcloak:: Black/White - Orzhovian character.
:mitd:: hehe. Quite interesting, but I'd go with green as well.

[Heads_or_Tails]

I won't be casting my opinion into the discussion about what colours they should be, I will merely nitpick: the Miko card gives credit to a "Rick Burlew" at the bottom. If you do remake the cards you probably should fix that.

[AyuVince]

Hyrael's suggestions come closest to what Rosewater defines as typical abilities of the different colors. Of course, he just HAD to mess everything up in Planar Chaos... ;)

You don't have to be white to be good, so Haley can be monoblue. There are a lot of "good" characters in Magic who are not white (with the exception of black, black characters may be protagonists, but they are never what contemporary Western morals would call "good").

[Awesome Girl]

:miko: should be blue because of the whole "Azure city has a lot of blue" thing. Besides All the paladins wear at least a little blue. Also: doesn't Azure mean blue in Spanish?

[GoldenKitsune]

I don't agree that :vaarsuvius: should be blue. Atleast, not pure blue. For asmuch as he loves magic and arcane knowledge, he also love throwing around fireballs and disintegrating the enemy. And that sounds more Red to me.

[Cleverdan22]

Jubilations! The bag of tricks made it!

[Vladimir_Valchev]

Ok, guys, I finally found the program and I'm redoing all the cards. Hope you like them.

[MReav]

Vlad: Looking at the revised cards, I'll point out that Redcloak is a Cleric

[TRM]

:miko: should be blue because of the whole "Azure city has a lot of blue" thing. Besides All the paladins wear at least a little blue. Also: doesn't Azure mean blue in Spanish?

no azure doesn't mean blue in spanish. Azul is the spanish word.
I agree with the azure city being blue part tho
:smallbiggrin:

[Amon Star]

Fantastic!

One question though. why is :elan: non-Legendary?

[Robberbaron]

Are russian and bulgarian pronounced the same?

[Vladimir_Valchev]

@Robberbaron - Some words are, but then again, different languages... :)
@Amon Star - Because he isn't really heroic (at least when I did the cards). I'll do another, updated version of him as the old Elan, and one of the new Elan.
I'm totally redoing the cards. Plus, I've done Sabine and Thog, too.
@The Rogue Monk:


The term azure derives from the Persian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language) لاژورد lazhward, which was the name of a place known for its deposits of the deep blue stone now called lapis lazuli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapis_lazuli) (stone of lazhward). The word was adopted into Old French (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_French) by the twelfth century, from which the word passed into use in the blazon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blazon) of coats of arms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms).
@MReav - My bad! :(

[eof]

Some of the problems with converting D&D characters into Magic cards (and yeah, I've tried) is that:
D&D characters are typically too complex to be easily converted into Magic cards. You need simple color choices and not too many abilities on a cards, even if this fails to perfectly represent the character.
Additionally, Magic doesn't really support the concept of a character level. You don't want to represent the 15th level fighter as a 15/15 for 16 mana, because no-one wants to hardcast that. Comparisons between characters must also be simplified; even if Miko can take on the entire OotS, and the cardbord representations of the OotS has a total P/T of 18/18 (say), she shouldn't be made a 19/19.What I particularly like about these cards is that they accomplish that. Most of them don't try to do too much, and their casting costs still let them be hardcast (although I would cut down on the triple and quadruple color requirements; single is splashable, double is main color, triple and above is single color).

Here's my take on the colors, and the cards' abilities (P/T and mana cost is a matter of adjustment, so I'll leave that out):

:durkon:: W. Flavorwise I'd peg him as WG, but no need to complicate matters, especially since the G side is weak. There's no need for R just because he is a dwarf, or a follower of Thor. If you want to enforce his deity, give him abilities that use R (although I personally feel it is unnecessary).

The card: The ability will never be played except during your opponent's EOT. The delay is flavorful, but complicates matters. I'd consider simplifying it to:
[ W ]: CARDNAME gets +1/+1 until EOT.
[ G ]: CARDNAME gets trample until EOT.
:roy:: W. No explanation needed.

The card: Bloodthirst doesn't seem to fit Roy very good IMO. Also, the wording of the damage prevention ability is cumbersome. If Roy is already attacking (and so, tapped), this ability does not do anything, since he can't tap to use it and gaining defender in the middle of the attack does not remove him from combat. If he isn't attacking, it is probably because you want to use the DP ability and not attack. Therefore, barring some very special cases, giving Roy defender is not needed. Finally, you probably don't want the damage shields to persist over multiple rounds, since that would be confusing. Try:
[ 1 ][ W ], [ T ]: Prevent the next X damage that would be dealt to target creature this turn, where X is CARDNAME's toughness.
Since X is not a cost, you should write it as X, not as [ X ].

Suggestion: Double strike might be a simple interpretion of the Cleave feat.

:miko:: W of the Akroma kind. Flavorwise, she is both very WR (passionate with a purpose) and very WU (her Lawful fixation). For simplicity, make her W, and give her abilities that use U (or WU) and R (or WR).

The card: Bushido 3 is a lot, and will probably never appear outside of the Kamigawa block (although it is extremely flavorful for Miko). Black is not necessarily evil, and evil is not necessary black. Also, the color restricted revealing ability does not work; you have no way of knowing if your opponent is honest with you or not (and you probably want to make it target opponent, not target player). If you want to keep it, you need to fix that in some manner, like for instance:
[ W ][ U ]: Look at target opponent's hand.
or:
[ W ][ U ]: Target opponent reveals his or her hand. <Something happens> for each black card in it.
or:
[ W ][ U ]: Target opponent reveals a card at random from his or her hand. If it's black, <something happens>.
Suggestion: Drop protection from black, and replace the revealing ability with (cost is debatable):
[ 1 ][ U ]: Counter target spell or ability that targets CARDNAME.
This allows for a more generic protection (evil-doers are not all black), although it is not entirely without cost.

:vaarsuvius:: U. V is all about knowledge. That knowledge happens to incorporate some blasting spells (ok, a lot of blasting spells), just like U used to do in the good old days, until WotC decided that knowledge, when applied universally, essentially incorporate everything and should not be allowed (and a good decision, too). Add abilities that use R if you want to enforce the blaster side (although I personally feel it is unnecessary).

(BTW, 1337_master, all colors use magic. Not just U. U just does it in the most, um, stylized manner. U has the most Wizards, but all colors have some. When you search for "synonyms," B, R and G have a fair amount of shamans; all colors have spellshapers; G has a lot of druids (and B has some); and W and B has fair amounts of clerics.)

The card: V has not displayed immunity to spells, so that seems like a poor fit. Just like bushido, arcane will probably never see usage outside of the Kamigawa block (although again, points for flavor). Suggestion: Add a non-trivial cost to the search ability, and allow searching for sorceries, instants and cards with flash instead.

:belkar:: BR of the hedonistic kind.

The card: Belkar would be a perfect fit for bloodthirst if there ever was one. Morph seems quite random for him (meant to imply hiding, I guess), but the execution should work. Suggestion: Replace current evasion ability with a "[ U ]: CARDNAME gets flying until EOT" (cost debatable) ability instead.

:elan:: Difficult, and also seemingly one people have very varying opinions on---every color except B is suggested in some combination or other. Elan is one of those characters that combine so many traits that no clear picture is formed. (U sees a prevalent choice, given that Elan uses illusions.)

I'll go through the colors, crossing off what doesn't work (for me):
W. Works. Elan's abilities are team benefit abilities, so W is good.
U. No. In spite of illusions, Elan is not a thinking character. Contrast with V.
B. No. Elan is the anti-thesis of selfish.
R. Not really. Elan is not, IMO, ruled by his emotions. Sure, he has some, just like everyone else, but they are not his main motivators. And he is definitely not an angry character.
G. Yes. If anything, Elan is carefree and approaches everything with the same innocence and lack of subtility. Feels like G to me.I'd peg Elan as G (but obviously not the fattie kind of G). He could also be just WG, but I'd rather add some ability that uses W (although it seems unnecessary).

The card: Flavorful, but risks suffering from memory issues---in five rounds, will you still remember whether Elan gives first strike, trample or haste? I'd suggest splitting them up (and adding costs (debatable)), if you want to stick to this ability:
As long as CARDNAME is tapped, other creatures you control get +1/+1.
[ W ], [ T ]: Other creatures you control get first strike until EOT.
[ G ], [ T ]: Other creatures you control get trample until EOT.
[ R ], [ T ]: Other creatures you control get haste until EOT.
Also, I'd skip the "you may choose not to untap" ability; it typically only becomes an issue for creatures with otherwise effective zero toughness. And even bards must take a breather every now and then...

(If a creature isn't legendary, it does not need to be pointed out---although I think Elan should enjoy the same legendary status as everybody else.)

:haley:: Another difficult character. Also has U as a prevalent color, although mostly in combinations.

I'll go through the colors for Haley as well, crossing off what doesn't work (for me):
W. Works poorly; Haley is IMO too much of an individualist to be W. Even saving money to save her dad is not a strong W trait; if she saved money to save someone else's dad, it would be.
U. Works poorly as well. Haley is scheming, but that is not a trait restricted to U, and might in fact be more B. U might be an option together with B, though.
B. Yes. Keep in mind that B does not necessary mean evil. Haley's actions are typically very self-centered, even if they extend to individuals of personal interest to her.
R. Not really. Just like Elan, Haley is not a very emotional character (except when it comes to Elan. And her money). Not an angry character either.
G. Not really. Haley is waaay too sophisticated for G.I'd peg Haley as B, or UB---it depends on which part of her you want to play up. Self-centered, pick B; scheming and secretative, pick UB. I'd go with UB, even though I'd prefer B for its simplicity (and add an ability using UB).

The card: I don't see Haley having anything to do with mana, especially not as WU. Having said that, you don't sacrifice counters, you remove them. Suggestion: Change the mana to some sort of life gain---it sucks, but is more in line with the colors. If you go UB instead, you might want to replace the ability with something sneak attack related.

:xykon:: B. No explanation needed.

The card: The first ability is great, though somewhat at odds with the second. Perhaps the threshold requirement isn't needed? Finally, only sorceries and instants have flashback; it won't work for creatures. You want this: "[ 4 ][ B ][ B ][ B ]: Return CARDNAME from your graveyard to play. Play this ability only during your main phase."

:mitd:: Could be anything, really, but based on personality and fatty traits displayed so far, I'd say G. Xykon has a bad influence, though---perhaps that aspect could become a black aura, like "Abuse Naiveness," or something like that.

The card: It works, except for the type line. "(Legendary) Creature---Illusion" or "(Legendary) Creature---Shadow," or even "(Legendary) Creature---The-Creature-in-Shadows" work. (Although it is called Monster in the Dark," is it not?) Suggestion: The new suspend mechanic seems like a perfect fit for MotD---everyone knows it is coming, but not quite yet...

:redcloak:: B. Nihilistic B, if Miko is correct in #371. There are slivers of other colors as well---W in particular, perhaps U as well---but they are too insignificant to matter. There certainly is no need to include R just because he is a goblin. You could argue WB if you want to play up the Xykon-Redcloak relationship, and UB if you want to believe that Redcloak has his own, secret agenda that Xykon does not necessarily know about. (The hedonistic BR doesn't seem to fit Redcloak particularly well.) For simplicity, go with B and add abilities that use W or U (although I think it is unnecessary).

The card: The abilities more or less work (the first one would be better as "whenever you play a sorcery spell, you may have target player shuffle his or her library" instead, I think, since physical interaction with cards other than those you control is typically minimized) and are interesting, but seem a bit random for Redcloak. Also, the first ability can introduce a whole lot of extra shuffling, which can be both delaying and irritating. (I know I would be annoyed with an opponent who'd choose to shuffle his library, or make me shuffle mine, every time he played a sorcery.)

:nale:: UB. Selfish and plotting. Interesting enough, also happens to be opposing G, which I pegged Elan for.

:sabine:: BR. Hedonistic, selfish and carnal.

:thog:: RG. R or G would work as well, depending on which side of Thog you want to bring forth.

Love the bag of tricks! :smallbiggrin:

[Amon Star]

@Amon Star - Because he isn't really heroic (at least when I did the cards). I'll do another, updated version of him as the old Elan, and one of the new Elan.
I'm totally redoing the cards. Plus, I've done Sabine and Thog, too.

I thought Legendary just ment unique in magic? Either way, :elan: IS heroic. He's good and he tries hard, that's heroic. Being incompetent doesn't stop someone from being a hero.

[Fascisticide]

WTF is bloodthirst?

[Skydiving_Ninja]

Bloodthirst X: If an opponent was dealt damage this turn, put X +1/+1 counters on this creature as it comes into play.

Bloodthirst is perfect for Belkar, especially since I think now he should be R/B. Red for the aggressiveness, Black for selfishness.

Elan is interesting as WG. To be honest, I saw some blue in him to go along with Haley's blue.

Redcloak should be B/W. He looks out for his fellow goblins, and wants to avenge their deaths by destroying the Sapphire Gaurd. Thus: White.

[Orzel]

To me it's:

:roy: white- LG is white. formally trained fighters are white (4/3 with vigilance)
:durkon: white- a good cleric is white it. He's have a red activated ability (1/4 with +1/+1)
:haley: blue- Rogues are blue (thief) or black (assassin). She's the blue kind. She's also not selfsih or selfless enough to effect her goals (3/1 with fake flying)
:elan: green- there's no bard in mtg. the closest is a druid/rogue. With his carefree personality I say G (2/2 with +3/+3)
:belkar: red- short-sighted, aggressive, barbaric, and powerful. Belkar is all red (3/4 with first strike)
:vaarsuvius: blue- Wizards are 80% the time blue. 'specially the smarty pants ones. (2/2 pinger)

:miko: white- Paladins are white. LG is white (2/2 with Bushido 3)

:nale: black/blue - very selfish and very smart. Opposes Elan. (2/2 with -3/-3)
:sabine: black- just selfish (2/2 with flying)
:thog: red- half-orc, barbarian, aggressive, simplistic... need more? (4/2 trample)
:xykon: black- duh (4/4 that makes zombie token on damge)
:redcloak: black- an evil cleric is black (X/X where X the no of zombies)
:mitd: colorless- morph creature for the win! (2/2 colorless)


Few of the oots characters would be multicolored. Most nonravnican nonlegends multis were mixed breeds, side switchers, very powerful legends, freaks, or unusual occurences. Few oots character are that weird or powerful.

Also black creatures are so selflish that they'd sacrifice others or the entire world to save their own skin.

[Skippy]

It's my chance to say what I'd likefor every character!!
:roy:: Roy is a good guy. He's a warrior, he is loyal and he is bound to oaths. He is White without a doubt.
:durkon:: He's a cleric. He prevents damage. But he can shock. If you have a healing character who also has the ability to smite his opponents with the might of Thor, you have to make him White/Red, whether you like it or not.
:vaarsuvius:: A powerful spellcaster with the ability to bend reality to achieve his/her ends? He/she must be Blue, without a doubt. Perhaps Blue/Red, because (s)he loves to Fireball his/her opponents, and his/her quest is for the ultimate power. Like an Izzet, you know?
:Haley::She's a rogue. She doesn't follow the rules and she is a bit greedy. She could be blue, like the sneaky ninjas from the Kamigawa block. I think the ninjutsu ability would suit her well.
:elan::Before his change, his mere purpose in battle was to improve his friend's defenses. He could be green, or white.
:belkar::Red, without a doubt. He loves to be in a killing spree, and he doesn't matter anything as long as he can harvest someone's kidneys just for fun.
:nale::As for Nale, I'm really sure he is blue/black. His charm ability's the kind of ability you could use as a counter, you know. As someone said before, like a Dimir wannabe. But he's no wannabe, he is hardcore Dimir...
:sabine:: I love the idea of seeing her as red/black, because those are the colors I play, but I can't let her be. She is more like monoblak, because there aren't any red characteristics in her. She loves draining life energy and her power comes from the Lower Planes. She can't be another thing but Black.
:thog::He is definitely Green/Red, because he's a big creature (who can grow even more) and whenever he finds an obstacle, he just breaks it. What's the problem? He's just like a Gruul.
:miko::She is definitely a pure white pally. She is bound to her laws and to break them she needs a real provocation. Even if her clothes are blue, it doesn't mean she has the ability to counter spells. She is more likely to prevent damage or heal herself. She would have double strike, protection from black, bushido and perhaps even trample.
:xykon::Black, without a doubt.
:redcloak:: So far, I haven't seen anything that would point him to be red. For me, he is definitely monoblack. The fact that he's a goblin doesn't mean he has to be red. There's at least one black goblin (Goblin Turncoat, from the Legions block) and a red/white goblin in Ravnica.
:mitd::This creature really haunts me, because so far we haven't seen but a glimpse of its might. Because of its strenght i'd say it's green, because most of the biggest creatures aregreen. But it's a creature of darkness, even if it's childish (Braids was childish too), so it would have to be black.

Well, that's all as far as I can remember. Hope you take it on account!

[Alfryd]

Some of the problems with converting D&D characters into Magic cards (and yeah, I've tried) is that:
I agree thoroughly with most of your colour analysis, excepting the following: Sabine is arguably green/black- evil by nature. And Redcloak is definitely black/white. He definitely has some ulterior motive and/or strong loyalties in following Xykon.

[elliott20]

I like eof's though process. Simplicity, especially in MTG, should be encouraged.

you have to remember, Miko didn't beat the OoTS just by pure might alone. She did with a lot of circumstantial and strategic advantages. So saying that Miko needs to be a 16/16 to fight all the OoTS is pretty inaccurate.

I like eof's write up for her though. But for some reason, I see Miko more or less like a beefed up Northern Paladin.

3/3, bushido 3, double strike, and T: destroy target black creature/permanant or T: deal damage to target black creature

The way I see it, V's trigger happy blaster style can best be emulated by giving him the ability to tap and mana cost for damage. i.e. RR, T: V deals 2 damage to target creature. Throw in one more ability that allows you to search your library for spells and that should cover him.

belkar: everybody seems to agree that bloodthirst works for him. I got no objection there.

Durkon: 2/3, W: +1/+1 until end of turn or maybe T: prevent all damage dealt to target creature this turn, the numbers I'm more fuzzy about but I think everybody's got a similar concept for him.

Haley: flanking, and one or two more abilities to address her rogue abilities.

The way I've always saw converting d&d to MTG was through algorthm exchange.

just for example:

say, we start everyone off at 0/1. For every, say, 30-50 hit points a character has, they get an additional +0/+1. or perhaps instead of doing it this way, the amount of hit points required might be exponential. So 1-40 gets you a 0/1, 40-100 gets you a 0/2 and so on. not sure. This way, the only characters with a 10/10 (like a leviathan) would require a prodigious amount of hit points.

then we can take armor into account. So again, we can again use the previous scale to scale AC to bonuses to toughness. (Of course, this means that Durkon could very well end up being a 3/6 or something...)

so say,
AC
0-15: 0
16-35: 1
36-60: 2

the alogorthm in this case, would be AC = toughness bonus x 5 + 15

you put the two bonuses together and you can calculate the creature's total toughness

We can do the a similar thing for attack. Most directly, we can take two things into account: Attack Bonus and damage out put from physical attack. (with maybe certain feats giving even more bonuses)

since I've started using scales, you could do the same thing.

Total Attack Bonus (including all enchantments)
1-5: 0
6-12: 1
13-20: 2

and so on.

damage output can be done in a similar fashion. in this case, we take the expected damage, with all the bells and whistles attached to the character figuring into the total before conversion.

certain feats like improve critical, which improves a character's expected damage, will no doubt help out increase a character's attack power.

[Hyrael]

I don't agree that :vaarsuvius: should be blue. Atleast, not pure blue. For asmuch as he loves magic and arcane knowledge, he also love throwing around fireballs and disintegrating the enemy. And that sounds more Red to me.
But, when D&D translates into MTG, fireballs loose their chaotic and passionate connotations, and just become an exercise in thermal reactions manipulated by magic. V loves exercising his/her power, and fireball is a very powerful spell. just using explosive magic does not make you red. V's personality is the epitome of Blue. Intelligent, highbrow, arrogant, and arcane potency.

I do agree that Elan could be Red, being chaotic, but Both blue and green could be given the chaotic destriptors as well. Blue is mutable and changing, willing to do what a given situation demands regardless of previous agreements. And green beleives in allowing things to flow naturaly without limits or too much structure. Fey and elves are predominantly green, after all, with fey also being partly blue.

colors are not pigeonholed into D&D alignments. Here's my view:
W: any lawful or good and nonchaotic (allowing for lawful evil white characters)
U: any. Those with a blue mana essence are diverse, and could be ordered or fluid, selfish or benevolent.
B: any non-good. ideals of arbitrary virtue and imposed moral codes are foreign to those born of the swamps
R: any non-lawful. Red can be good natured or burtal, but it is never predictable
G: any neutal (like a druid).

[Who]

Ok, guys, I finally found the program and I'm redoing all the cards. Hope you like them.

Where did you get the program?

[eof]

I agree thoroughly with most of your colour analysis, excepting the following: Sabine is arguably green/black- evil by nature.
A lot of Magic demons (there are very few devils) are "evil by nature" (rather than by choice, which I guess is your angle, here) but are still only black. The few that aren't, tap into red, either as R or BR. Sol'kanar is the only demon to tap into a third color (blue), but as he originates in Legends and was granted the demon subtype only now (TSP), he should be seen as the exception to the rule.

IMO, Green isn't about being in a natural state. Consider blue for a second. If you prescribe to the idea that "with the right knowledge, everything can be accomplished," then blue, being the color of knowledge, is capable of anything. This view has been debunked in Magic since, I dunno, around 4th Edition perhaps? Blue can't do everything. Now consider green. Especially if you accept determinism, then everything would be "in its natural state," and if being in your natural state is green, then everything is green. Since there are (creatures of) other colors in Magic, this can't be true (in Magic). Green isn't about inner nature; it's about primal nature.

If you haven't read the Magic Style Guide (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mc3) by Matt Cavotta, check it out. It has a great representation of the color pie at around 3/4 of the page. The nearest I get Sabine in green would IMO be instinct (not particularly true IMO) and nature, which I don't think applies as per above. Also see Mark Rosewater's article on Golgari (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr199). I don't feel like any of this applies to Sabine. Well, ok, perhaps a little, if you consider the "training" of Nale (mentioned in #62), but not enough to warrant a BG descriptor. OTOH, read Rosewater's article about Rakdos (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr241). Sounds more like Sabine to me. Draining levels slowly and enjoying it feels like more than just a tad red to me; if she was monoblack, she'd be more driven and efficient, and less cruel. However, I'd also consider monoblack an option.

And Redcloak is definitely black/white. He definitely has some ulterior motive and/or strong loyalties in following Xykon.
The problem with Redcloak is that we know so little about his motivations. At the core, I'm going to assume that he's in on "destroying the world" for power. That makes him black. The question is, monoblack or multicolor?
W. He has previously displayed some concern for Xykon's other goblins, but then they died and meh. OTOH, see Orzhov (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr221) and sure, if Redcloak's goals in life are to be a cog in Xykon's machinery, then why not. I can easily see this.
U. This combination works as well, but assumes that there is a lot more to Redcloak than we have seen. If he has some very secret agenda, something that not even Xykon knows about, then he can easily be UB. See Dimir (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr201).
R. Nah.
G. Well, G is a possibility that I didn't consider before. See Golgari again. If Redcloak is in on it because he believes that the world needs to be destroyed in order for something new and better to rise in its place (see the article's mention of the 12 monkeys), then he might actually be BG.Since I don't want to make too many assumptions on Redcloak's motivations, I'd keep it simple and go with what I know, and put him on black, and add whatever colored abilities I feel suit him best.

[elliott20]

BTW, I think we need some CCPD guys

CCPD WW enchantment
W T: place one CCPD officer token in play under your control. Treat this token as a 0/1 white creature with the creature type of "CCPD Officer".

CCPD chief WW1
legendary police chief
1/1
all creatures with type "CCPD officers" recieve a +1/+1.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Shouldn't Durkon have healing? T: Prevent all damage that would be dealt to target creature from one source.

[Goofy]

You can't force a player to reveal cards with a specific qualifier from his hand because you can't confirm he wasn't cheating.

[Lord Iames Osari]

There needs to be a new version of Elan now.

[Orzel]

Shouldn't Durkon have healing? T: Prevent all damage that would be dealt to target creature from one source.

Durkon mostly heals after battles. He's more of a CoDzilla.

I doubt any of the Order are multicolored. They are pretty typical in class, alignment, and race. Multicolored is for weirdos and freaks. The only multicolored OotS major characters are probably Nale and Elan. Since there are few bards and bard-likes in Magic, there's no base to pull off of. They could be red, blue, or green or any combo of them. The closest is enchanters which is every color.

[eof]

Shouldn't Durkon have healing? T: Prevent all damage that would be dealt to target creature from one source.

I'm sure there are myriads of versions one could come up with, from simplistic to complicated. You really can't fit everything about a D&D character on a single card. Vladimir made some choices of what aspects to highlight, and in Durkon's case it was the Thor's Might spell. But yeah, healing is another option.


There needs to be a new version of Elan now.

Magic doesn't deal very well with the concept of more "mature" versions of the same character. For instance, Rorix Bladewing supposedly died and was raised as an undead creature, Bladewing the Risen, and they can both be in the game at the same time. Just as above, choices have to be made. A new Elan will be good but will in no way "invalidate" the old version, I think.

[elliott20]

Well, with the Kamigawa set, they introduced cards that can be flipped. I think this would allow for a more "mature" version of Elan.

Elan G1
1/1 Legendary Bard
T: target creature receives +1/+0 until EOT.
T: target creature receives +0/+1 until EOT.
If Elan is ever taken out of play and then returned to play for any reason, Elan changes into Dashing Swordsman Elan

Dashing Swordsman Elan
3/2 Legendary Dashing Swordsman
First Strike

[eof]

Well, with the Kamigawa set, they introduced cards that can be flipped. I think this would allow for a more "mature" version of Elan.
True, but a) it only gives two versions, b) there are even stricter limits on the amount of text they can have, and c) it assumes that you know of the "mature" version of the character in advance---with Elan, we do, but what happens if for instance Miko falls? At this point in time, it would be impossible to know in what direction she would develop after that.

But flip cards would be a great idea, otherwise, and certainly works for Elan right now. Although, you need another trigger to flip your version of Elan---cards don't remember their previous "lives" when they change zones (except for the phased-out zone). A replacement ability, "If CARDNAME would leave play, flip it instead." should work.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Hmm...

Elan the Dashing Swordsman
3WU
Legendary Creature - Human Bard
First Strike
UU: Elan the Dashing Swordsman gains +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the number of cards in your hand. Discard a card.
1/2

[elliott20]

True, but a) it only gives two versions, b) there are even stricter limits on the amount of text they can have, and c) it assumes that you know of the "mature" version of the character in advance---with Elan, we do, but what happens if for instance Miko falls? At this point in time, it would be impossible to know in what direction she would develop after that.

But flip cards would be a great idea, otherwise, and certainly works for Elan right now. Although, you need another trigger to flip your version of Elan---cards don't remember their previous "lives" when they change zones (except for the phased-out zone). A replacement ability, "If CARDNAME would leave play, flip it instead." should work.
yeah, and as the comic progresses, I'm fairly certain most of the characters will experience some more changes that are as drastic as Elan's change.

[Solmage]

:miko: should be blue because of the whole "Azure city has a lot of blue" thing. Besides All the paladins wear at least a little blue. Also: doesn't Azure mean blue in Spanish?

...

Azure means blue in english, specifically a shade of blue like that of a clear and unclouded sky.

[Vladimir_Valchev]

Wow, guys!
Ok.. as I said before, I'm redoing the characters. Most of the mistakes that were pointed out I knew about, but didn't have the program for.. months.

About Durkon Thundershield - He is now able to heal legendary creatures, and has an ability that deals damage to a target creature and gives him power at the same time.

Haley has Flanking 1, and Affinity for artifacts, which I can remove, but it seems reasonable.

[Gandal]

Snarl
2W2U2B2R2G

10/10, Trample, Haste, First Strike, protection from Legendary creatures
Snarl cannot block.
2W2U2B2R2G, tap: Destroy all other permanents. Creatures can't be regenerated.
RB, tap: Destroy target Legendary creature.

Muahaha.

[elliott20]

Here's my version Elan, a composite of some of the previous suggestions.
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2194/elanthebardio2.th.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elanthebardio2.jpg)

[Who]

Where do you get the card makiing programme?

[Vladimir_Valchev]

Oh, from here. (http://hn.cx/mtglair/MtgEditor.zip).
But it isn't working for some weird reason. I'm updating the thing, by adding the hybrid borders.

[elliott20]

mine is called "Magic Set Editor 2" or some such. I just went online and grabbed it after I saw this thread.

the one that vladimir's site links to has been taken down already so you can't use that one.

[Falcrist]

Here is my take on the OotS team as Magic Cards. I've tried to simplify the abilities and generalize as much as possible while still capturing the essence of the Character. They aren't perfect, but there is no way to effectively capture all of a PC's abilities in ONE card

________________________________________
Roy Greenhilt (3WW)
:roy:
Legendary Creature - Human
Vigilance
Creatures you control have banding.
5/3

I struggled to find something for Roy to do. I knew I wanted a big creature that could be a leader. Roy is a LG Fighter which fits him nicely into White. Vigilance is there because of his tendency to keep watch all night, and banding allows him to organize the others into a group. Banding may sound silly, but don’t be fooled. When you have a large band (say, 5 creatures :smallbiggrin: ) it becomes a powerful force.

________________________________________
Durkon Thundershield (3WR)
:durkon:
Legendary Creature - Dwarf Cleric
WW, T: The next time target creature would
be dealt damage this turn, prevent that damage.
2R: Durkon Thundershield gets +3/+3 until end
of turn. Play this ability only once each turn.
3/3

Durkon was easier. I've always pictured dwarves as White/Red so I fit him into those colors.
It worked out nicely. The "WW, Tap" ability represents his cleric abilities, and the "2R" ability represents Thor's might. 3/3 just feels like the right size for a stout, strong, Level 9 Dwarf.

________________________________________
Belkar Bitterleaf (3RR)
:belkar:
Legendary Creature - Halfling
Haste, Double Strike
R: Belkar Bitterleaf gets Flying until end of turn.
2/1

Belkar was obvious (IMO). He's very Chaotic (hence the red). Once I got that, Haste made sense.
Double Strike reflects his double daggers, and since he's small it also allowed me to keep his stats small, and still have him be effective. He also has the ring of jumping, which I reflected in his last ability. If his Power and toughness look small, just remember his double strike and Flying abilities. He's like a 4 power hasty flier. Not too bad for 5CC

________________________________________
Elan (3GG)
:elan:
Legendary Creature - Human Bard
Creatures you control get +1/+1
2G, T: Target Creature is unblockable until end
of turn.
GGG: Target creature blocks target creature this turn
if able.
2/2

In MTG bards are usually green and elves. Also Elan is Chaotic, so I put him in green. One could argue for Blue, but there are two problems with that. Blue is the color of intelligence, and poor Elan has none to speak of. Blue also represents Order, and Elan is Chaotic.
His Glorious anthem style ability represents his bardic music. I gave him the lure ability and the "2G, T" to reflect his illusionist abilities. His P/T may seem small, but he's meant for a support role more than anything else.

________________________________________
Haley Starshine (3GG)
:haley:
Human Rogue
First Strike
WW, T: Haley Starshine deals 3 damage to target
attacking or blocking creature.
Haley Starshine can't be blocked except by
creatures with flying.
2/3

Again, Miss Starshine is Chaotic, and fits nicely into green. But she's also a rogue AND has a bow (see Crossbow Infantry) which are both solidly in white. I decided on mono green because I couldn't justify putting such a chaotic character into a color that represented order. This is also the reason that she can’t be Blue. Blue is order, and that's not really what Haley is about.
Instead I have her the off-color ability: "WW, T" ability to show her bow AND her sneak attack. I gave her the "Ledgewalker" ability to reflect her thief background and her evasion. I would also like to note that Silhana Ledgewalker is the only green Rogue in magic which fits PERFECTLY :smallbiggrin: .
Last but not least: First Strike reflects her high initiative. This could have been haste, but haste is red, and I don't think she has red leanings (hair-color notwithstanding :smalltongue: )

________________________________________
Vaarsuvius 3UU
:vaarsuvius:
Elf Wizard
3UU, T: Shuffle your library. Then remove the top
card of your library from the game. Until end of turn,
you may play that card without paying its mana cost.
2/2

Last but not least is our friend Vaarsuvius. V was a tough one. Clearly a wizard of V's type (highly intelligent, lawful, and somewhat unemotional) should be very blue. However, V's spells are varied; from invisibility, Fireball, and Disintegrate (which have actual MTG cards), to featherfall, hold portal, charm person, and even "Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion" (which do NOT). Instead of giving him a bunch of abilities I decided to let him cast spells off of the library. You may recognize the ability as the card "Mind's Desire" only slightly modified. It's as close as I could get to having him learn spells and cast them himself.

There you have it! Whew, that took longer than I thought. These are just rough drafts, but I think they work well. I have MSE2, and I'll be making actual cards out of these later, but that's enough for now. I'll also cover some of the other characters later.

P.S. Redcloak is Red! :smallcool:

[Orzel]

Falcrist, I like most of your cards except none of the Order would be 5 converted mana cost (and 3WW etc is more like 6 CMC). 5-6 cmc is dragon(slayer) level. The Order have to take dragons as a group. They're are more 3-4 in power. That's minion crushing level.
and Banding is evil. EVIL EVIL!!!

The Order of the Stick 5WW
Legendary Creature - Cleric Rogue Soldier Wizard
first strike
(W): Target creature gets +0/+2 until end of turn.
(G): Target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
(U): The Order deals 2 damage to target creature or player and 3 damage to itself.
(R): Put a legendary 3/1 red barbarian creature token named Belkar into play.
5/5

The Linear Guild 4B
Legendary Creature - Barbarian Rogue Wizard
Flying, Trample
(U): Tap target creature
4/4

[Hyrael]

Very nice mechanics. I especialy like Varrsuvius.

One point about blue, though:
Blue is not lawfull, blue is fluid. It values order, because it gives predictability and peace in which to study. but blue finds order boring-anyone can predict events in an ordered enviroment, to predict chaos...ah, there's a challenge. Blue does whatever a given situation requires of it. It my maintain an ordered lifestyle, but only as long as that is convenient. and some Blue-essense people skip order entirely, and loose themselves in the ebb and flow of the world, to understand through experience.

Water in a glass takes on the shape of the glass. but when the glass breaks, the water takes on new shapes to fit into it's new medium.

[Jaysyn]

Redcloak and Xykon should be much more powerful.

Monster in the Darkness should be 6/6 or higher.

Also, Redcloak should be a Cleric & not Sorcerer.

[Logic]

I think :mitd: would be best as a +X/+X black creature, whose cost is one Black and X. In his block, it would state you can only use black to pay for X.

[Vladimir_Valchev]

Here's my version Elan, a composite of some of the previous suggestions.
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2194/elanthebardio2.th.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elanthebardio2.jpg)
Right now, with Miko not being a paladin anymore, a double card would be very nice.

[Terraxos]

colors are not pigeonholed into D&D alignments. Here's my view:
W: any lawful or good and nonchaotic (allowing for lawful evil white characters)
U: any. Those with a blue mana essence are diverse, and could be ordered or fluid, selfish or benevolent.
B: any non-good. ideals of arbitrary virtue and imposed moral codes are foreign to those born of the swamps
R: any non-lawful. Red can be good natured or burtal, but it is never predictable
G: any neutal (like a druid).
Actually, there is *some* crossover between Magic colours and D&D alignments. Here's how the Magic people themselves put it, while making Ravnica:

"When we were building the identities of Ravnica's guilds, Jeremy, we actually talked about each color in terms of D&D alignments (and in terms of superheroes, animals, food, and whatever else we could think of). There's not a clean match, but the closest we came was that white = good, blue = lawful, black = evil, red = chaotic, and green = neutral. (Lawful is a stretch for blue, and good and evil have less meaning in Magic than in D&D.) Those assignments would yield the following guild alignments:
Azorious = lawful good
Dimir = lawful evil
Rakdos = chaotic evil
Gruul = chaotic neutral
Selesnya = neutral good
Golgari = neutral evil
Orzhov = [good evil]
Boros = chaotic good
Izzet = [lawful chaotic]
Simic = lawful neutral
This scheme works surprisingly well, in my opinion. The exceptions are the Boros, which would be "lawful passionate" or something, and the Orzhov and Izzet, which have two values on the same alignment spectrum. Interestingly, this scheme also reveals how conflicted the Orzhov are, how insane the Izzet are. If I had to choose alignments for the Orzhov and Izzet, I guess I'd choose lawful evil and chaotic neutral, respectively. That in turn demonstrates that the Orzhov and Dimir are two sides of the same coin, and that maybe the Izzet and the Gruul have more in common than it would appear at first glance. They're both chaotic and passionate, but otherwise mostly amoral (blue and green are united by their amorality)."

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/askwizards/1106

I'm not going to make my own suggestions on who the OOTS should be right now - I'd have to think about it some more. But I just wanted to throw that link out there to see what people think.