Arcane Archer imbue arrow combined with phase and/or seeker arrow

[Red Bear]

Imbue arrow is a very cool ability but is useful in very few situations and/or with a very limited number of spells. If an arcane archer could imbue an arrow and the shoot it as seeker and/or phase arrow the usefulness of the arcane archer would increase greatly. (e.g. someone could cast a fireball trough a door or behind a cover)

Is it possible to this "legally" (by RAW or RAI)?
If not, what do you think of this idea?

both Pathfinder and 3.5 comments are welcomed.

[Psyren]

In Pathfinder - as a matter of fact, yes, this is possible. You will either need a second standard action, or a quickened spell (a rod is helpful here.)

How it works:
- Imbue Arrow requires you to cast the spell on the arrow. You can, but are not required to, fire the arrow as part of the casting. However, you must fire it in the same round that you imbue the arrow or the spell will be wasted. While the round is ongoing, the spell will remain in the arrow.

- Phase Arrow is a standard action, and it allows you to both prepare and fire the phasing arrow.

The method is simple:

- The "standard casting time" of any quickened spell is a swift action. Thus, it will be a swift action to imbue your chosen arrow with quickened fireball. Your arrow is now charged.
- As a standard action, turn that same arrow into a phase arrow and fire it. Declare your target as the nearest square intersection in a straight line immediately beyond whatever barrier you're shooting through (AC 5, plus any range penalties.) If you miss, the DM should use the "missed splash weapon" rules to determine where your arrow lands, and that will be the point of origin of the spell.
- Enjoy the fireworks!

To do this with a rod, simply hold the rod in your free hand while you imbue the arrow, then drop the rod as a free action and draw your bow as a move action. You'll have just enough actions to pull off the whole thing.

[AstralFire]

I think it would be reasonable to make phase, seeker, and 1/encounter, death a 1/day with a scaling DC. I'd also make their triggers all swift actions where you can pair multiple all at once, and have the class increase your caster level.

As-written, it's not very compelling versus taking more of your caster class when your Fireball would be gaining range fast through sheer caster level increase.

[Red Bear]

In Pathfinder - as a matter of fact, yes, this is possible. You will either need a second standard action, or a quickened spell (a rod is helpful here.)

How it works:
- Imbue Arrow requires you to cast the spell on the arrow. You can, but are not required to, fire the arrow as part of the casting. However, you must fire it in the same round that you imbue the arrow or the spell will be wasted. While the round is ongoing, the spell will remain in the arrow.

- Phase Arrow is a standard action, and it allows you to both prepare and fire the phasing arrow.

The method is simple:

- The "standard casting time" of any quickened spell is a swift action. Thus, it will be a swift action to imbue your chosen arrow with quickened fireball. Your arrow is now charged.
- As a standard action, turn that same arrow into a phase arrow and fire it. Declare your target as the nearest square intersection in a straight line immediately beyond whatever barrier you're shooting through (AC 5, plus any range penalties.) If you miss, the DM should use the "missed splash weapon" rules to determine where your arrow lands, and that will be the point of origin of the spell.
- Enjoy the fireworks!

To do this with a rod, simply hold the rod in your free hand while you imbue the arrow, then drop the rod as a free action and draw your bow as a move action. You'll have just enough actions to pull off the whole thing.

hooray! Now I feel that the Arcane Archer has a reason to exist :)
I didn't consider this "The "standard casting time" of any quickened spell is a swift action." I saw "standard" and I automatically taught that imbue was a standard action.

p.s. Are there ways to have a second standard action in a round?

[Psyren]

p.s. Are there ways to have a second standard action in a round?

Psionics has plenty, but it's harder to pull off with magic. Celerity works, but you will have to be sure to use it to fire the Phase Arrow, and your regular standard to Imbue it, because you'll be dazed immediately after you shoot.

[Red Bear]

Psionics has plenty, but it's harder to pull off with magic. Celerity works, but you will have to be sure to use it to fire the Phase Arrow, and your regular standard to Imbue it, because you'll be dazed immediately after you shoot.

Thank you very much for your answers.

[Chronos]

A simpler way to get an extra standard action is through use of a Belt of Battle. You can only do it 1/day per belt, though.

Even simpler yet would be to ask your DM to houserule Arcane Archer. The boost in power won't break it.

[holywhippet]

hooray! Now I feel that the Arcane Archer has a reason to exist :)

It already had two reasons to exist AFAIK. The first is, by RAW, you can use Imbue Arrow to cast AoE spells are launch them as a standard action. This works no matter what the regular casting time is. There are some spells with 10 minutes of casting time which can do a lot of damage this way.

The second is relying on the enhance arrow power to give your bow the +5 to hit and damage as you level up. As a result, you only need to give your bow +1 enchantment and use the other 9 enchantment "slots" to deal even more damage.

[Der_DWSage]

The first is something I honestly hadn't considered, though I have no clue which of these 'combat viable' spells take 10 minutes to cast. That sounds like an abomination unto magic.

The latter, however? The latter is useless so long as Greater Magic Weapon is a spell in your campaign.

[Red Bear]

A simpler way to get an extra standard action is through use of a Belt of Battle. You can only do it 1/day per belt, though.

Even simpler yet would be to ask your DM to houserule Arcane Archer. The boost in power won't break it.

I didn't want to ask him to let me do something completely impossible by RAW, now that I've seen all these possibilities I'll ask him.


It already had two reasons to exist AFAIK. The first is, by RAW, you can use Imbue Arrow to cast AoE spells are launch them as a standard action. This works no matter what the regular casting time is. There are some spells with 10 minutes of casting time which can do a lot of damage this way.

I've never considered this, are there some useful area spell that have a regular casting time longer than 1 standard action?



The second is relying on the enhance arrow power to give your bow the +5 to hit and damage as you level up. As a result, you only need to give your bow +1 enchantment and use the other 9 enchantment "slots" to deal even more damage.
This is a nice ability but I don't think is good enough to be considered a reason to exist for the arcane archer.

[Piggy Knowles]

I've never considered this, are there some useful area spell that have a regular casting time longer than 1 standard action?

I made a thread about just this very topic (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=626.5) a while ago. Some of my favorite such spells include Guards and Wards and Greater Glyph of Warding. The former is just loads of fun, while the latter lets you break the "area-only" restriction of Arcane Archer.

Here is a c/p of the list I found of area spells with long casting times that could be reduced via Imbue Arrow:


AREA SPELLS WITH ABSURDLY LONG CASTING TIMES

Anticipate Teleportation
Apocalypse from the Sky (I was really hoping this would be first on the list - stupid Anticipate Teleportation!)
Blinding Glory (Long duration Daylight in a huge area... pretty cool to shout "let there be light!" and fire this off, but really not worth a level 9 spell.)
Consecrate Battlefield
Control Weather (The best effects still don't come online for another ten minutes, unfortunately, but this is the spell that made me look into this as a tactic.)
Desecrate Battlefield
Energy Transformation Field
Evil Weather (This one might actually be worthwhile.)
Fimbulwinter (Are you bored of weather spells yet? I am!)
Forbiddance
Glyph of Warding
Greater Anticipate Teleportation
Greater Glyph of Warding
Guards and Wards (Fun!)
Hallow
Hallucinatory Terrain
Hide the Path
Hindight (Know everything about an area, instantly.)
Mage's Private Sanctum
Nature's Rampart
Raise Hummock (Holy geez this is an expensive spell to cast - hope you like swamps!)
Screen
Shadow Landscape
Shifting Paths
Skyrift (Would be way cooler without the crazy focus.)
Spread of Savagery (Cool spell, but what is up with the material components from BoVD? Brain fluid? Really?)
Unhallow
Utterdark
Weather Eye (Probably the stupidest possible use of this.)
Zone of Respite

[Psyren]

Note that the PF Arcane Archer fixed the imbue arrow exploit.



Even simpler yet would be to ask your DM to houserule Arcane Archer. The boost in power won't break it.

By the time you get to Phase Arrow you should be able to afford a Rod of Quicken anyway, or have room in your build for Quicken Spell, allowing you to pull this off without any houserules.



The latter, however? The latter is useless so long as Greater Magic Weapon is a spell in your campaign.

For the PF AA it's still useful - in PF, enhancement bonuses can overcome damage reduction (the bane of many archers) but GMW won't count for this purpose.

[Red Bear]

Note that the PF Arcane Archer fixed the imbue arrow exploit.
yeah, I know. I also feel that it's an exploit of the rules, but still I was curios about what can be done.



By the time you get to Phase Arrow you should be able to afford a Rod of Quicken anyway, or have room in your build for Quicken Spell, allowing you to pull this off without any houserules.
Considering that I won't be needing to imbue a phase arrow very often there is probably no need for an houserule. By the way my GM seems open to let me "hold the charge" of an imbued spell and let me do this in 2 rounds with regular spells.



For the PF AA it's still useful - in PF, enhancement bonuses can overcome damage reduction (the bane of many archers) but GMW won't count for this purpose.
I didn't know that, I was considering the idea of casting on myself everyday an extended GMW starting from level 12...