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View Full Version : What do you think of my custom spell?



littlebum2002
2013-11-27, 12:54 PM
I'm trying to come up with a custom spell for a certain situation in a campaign. Long story short, I want a secret from a prophet, but his goddess won't let him tell me because she is afraid the information will fall into the wrong hands. So.....


Pepper's Indomitable Pact

Illusion (Phantasm) [Language-Dependent, Shadow]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: One willing creature
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell is designed to seal a very important pact between two parties.

One party makes a noose out of rope and tightens it around their neck. Then, the pact is made. Once the spell is complete, the noose vanishes to everyone except the parties involved in the pact. They both see an illusory noose tightened over the recipient's neck, and stretching upward as if tied to a gallows. This illusory noose lasts as long as the spell does, forever reminding the recipient of their vow. No one except them can see this noose except by a Wish or a Miracle. Not even True Seeing reveals it.

If the pact is ever broken, the noose immediately tightens around the neck, killing the person instantly.

Typical conditions of the pact include speaking a certain word, contacting a certain person, casting a spell, or drawing a weapon.

Neither party can be forced to make this pact, either my magical or normal means, but one can choose to do it as part of a punishment, for instance, being pardoned from prison under the condition that you vow to never draw a weapon again.

This spell can only be broken by a Wish or a Miracle, unless attempting to do so is part of the pact, which is commonly the case. The pact can also be broken by both parties agreeing to end it, but again, neither party can be forced to do so.

Material Components: A length of sturdy rope at least 10' long, and a statuette of the party affected by the pact made of ivory and studded with gems, worth at least 1500 GP.






This spell is inspired by the Unbreakable Vow from Harry Potter and shamelessly and blatantly ripped off the Silver Scimitar spell here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3661490&postcount=6)

The caster who made the spell is named Pepper, and it WOULD be an enchantment spell, but she's an illusionist, and a phantasm works as well.

JoshuaZ
2013-11-27, 01:22 PM
This is way too powerful. If this existed in setting, even if it requires willing parties, it would be used to make all sorts of deals. One could for example give people who have committed crimes the choice of execution or taking a vow to be a model citizen. Moreover, this functions much more strongly than geas which is similar and in a different school.

At minimum, this should be a level higher, should be easier to detect and dispel,, should be a [death] effect, and should give them a will save to negate when the noose would actually tighten. Then it might be balanced, maybe.

Amnoriath
2013-11-27, 02:12 PM
I'm trying to come up with a custom spell for a certain situation in a campaign. Long story short, I want a secret from a prophet, but his goddess won't let him tell me because she is afraid the information will fall into the wrong hands. So.....


Pepper's Indomitable Pact

Illusion (Phantasm) [Language-Dependent, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5, Law 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: One willing creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell is designed to seal a very important pact between two parties.

One party makes a noose out of rope and tightens it around their neck. Then, the pact is made. Once the spell is complete, the noose vanishes to everyone except the parties involved in the pact. They both see an illusory noose tightened over the recipient's neck, and stretching upward as if tied to a gallows. This illusory noose lasts as long as the spell does, forever reminding the recipient of their vow. No one except them can see this noose except by a Wish or a Miracle. Not even True Seeing reveals it.

If the pact is ever broken, the noose immediately tightens around the neck, killing the person instantly.

Typical conditions of the pact include speaking a certain word, contacting a certain person, casting a spell, or drawing a weapon.

Neither party can be forced to make this pact, either my magical or normal means, but one can choose to do it as part of a punishment, for instance, being pardoned from prison under the condition that you vow to never draw a weapon again.

This spell can only be broken by a Wish or a Miracle, unless attempting to do so is part of the pact, which is commonly the case. The pact can also be broken by both parties agreeing to end it, but again, neither party can be forced to do so.

Material Components: A length of sturdy rope at least 10' long, and a statuette of the party affected by the pact made of ivory and studded with gems, worth at least 1500 GP.






This spell is inspired by the Unbreakable Vow from Harry Potter and shamelessly and blatantly ripped off the Silver Scimitar spell here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3661490&postcount=6)

The caster who made the spell is named Pepper, and it WOULD be an enchantment spell, but she's an illusionist, and a phantasm works as well.

So, why exactly would a person be willing to participate in this? Yes, you can have your token self-sacrificing ascetic but they by default should already be playing vows as such and if they weren't why would they accept this? The only way too really get mileage out of this is through 3.5 diplomancy but at this point you already have fanatical followers who would do all sorts of things to themselves so the only reason for this to be in existence is story flair.

Just to Browse
2013-11-27, 03:21 PM
Like JoshuaZ and Amnoriath, I don't see much of a reason for this to exist. At best, I can imagine using it on unconscious prisoners (who are willing) and then making up some crazy pact they need to follow, and then blackmailing them with their own life.

It doesn't have practical applications, but the applications it does have are stronger than the already incredibly strong geas/quest spell from the SRD. A spell being overpowered in its niche and useless elsewhere is not design one should adhere to, and I recommend that you simply reflavor geas/quest for your purposes.

AuraTwilight
2013-11-27, 04:31 PM
On top of everything, why is this an illusion spell?

Alexkubel
2013-11-27, 04:31 PM
reading it I can see a reason

you believe the person is innocent, but you can't prove it, you can use it to buy time to prove their innocence, dispelling once proven.

Studoku
2013-11-28, 10:08 AM
It's neat.

The only issue I can see is you're using a phantom noose to represent instant death. There are many cases where this is not going to be the case- such as constructs, undead or creatures that don't have necks. What would the spell do then?

Network
2013-11-28, 05:26 PM
I think adding more spells to an existing cleric domain is a bad idea. Furthermore, it is more powerful than most 5th-level spells ; effects that kill outright are relatively rare below 7th level (there is Phantasmal Killer, and I think it's it). This is nothing less than a contingented no-save-just-die.

The duration should be permanent, otherwise the spell won't work as the noose would disappear as soon as the spell is cast. If dispelling is an issue, you may make the spell a curse, but please fix that asap.

Fizban
2013-11-29, 11:15 AM
Haters gonna hate. There are plenty of reasons one might consider agreeing to such a pact. Most people would not do so because literally having a metaphysical knife to their throat that will strike if they ever mess up has a good chance of being worse than death. And there's the 1,500gp spell component, making it far more expensive to bind someone then to just off them, only very important people can afford that on a regular basis. There are plenty of death effects below 7th level, including the PHB's Slay Living at touch range for level 5 and the more esoteric and pwntastic Heart Ripper from Spell Compendium at 4th. Furthermore, a spell that only works on absolutely willing targets by DM fiat can be at whatever level the DM fiat's it at. In fact I've always questioned the validity of any "society" in a world with access to mind control, raising the dead, and more, that doesn't have an infallible method of convincing someone you are who you say you are and will keep your word. There's no such thing as a binding agreement when a scroll of wish is only 30,000gp and takes care of anything short of a god.

And like he said, the spell is an illusion because the character is an illusionist who needed a spell to convince someone he was trustworthy. So he sat down with his books and devised a spell that would only involve the caster and target- a phantasm (I'd add Shadow as well to account for mindless targets) which would tap the fundamental laws of the universe and fail if either target was not dealing entirely in good faith. The spell has no chance to fail in killing it's target because the target has already allowed it in-unless you think someone should get a save after swallowing a live grenade.

The write-up is perfectly good, if your DM likes it then go nuts. I personally find the noose a bit disturbing-seeing a nose around your own neck at all times is indeed a hefty reminder, and knowing that you put it there yourself is all the worse. I expect it would drive many mad.

littlebum2002
2013-11-29, 11:16 AM
Well, first of all, I really made it as a wizard spell. I just added the Law domain because it seemed appropriate.

Second, there is a 3.0 Necromancy spell which was called "painless death". It was a level 1 Cleric spell which gave, well, a painless death to any willing victim. So there is precedent for having a WILLING death spell at low levels.

After all, why should I be a high level to kill a willing person? Killing someone who is allowing you to kill them is something a Level 1 Truenamer can do. The only reason this is a higher level is because it's doing more than killing someone, it's creating a Contingency. So for that reason the argument could be made to make it Level 6, but since it's such a specific Contingency I figured I could lower it a level.

And don't forget, you have Phantasmal Killer at level 4, which is a hostile save-twice-or-die spell. And Phantasmal killer doesn't have the [death] effect, so I didn't add it here.


Anyway, like I said, my goal was to reproduce the "Unbreakable Vow" from Harry Potter. If I made it Duration Permanent, then it could be dispelled, correct? I really wanted it to be undispellable, or "unbreakable". I put in there that it can be dispelled by Wish or Miracle, just because they can dispel pretty much everything, but if one of the parts of the vow is "I will not attempt to have this vow dispelled" then trying to get someone to cast that spell on you would kill you before it could succeed.



The spell was created because my character (Pepper) wants information from a prophet of a goddess. The goddess won't let him give it to me, because she is afraid the information will fall into the wrong hands. So, I researched this spell, hoping that it will convince the goddess that the information is safe with Pepper. So don't think of it as being used by jailers (even though that was the example I gave, which was a bad one). Think of it being used by spy agencies. If a country wanted to give someone the equivalent of the USA's "Top-Secret" clearance, first they would have to take this vow not to spill any of the information.


And a noose should work on Constructs and undead as well, I would imagine. After all, it's supposed to break their neck, and I THINK constructs and undead would die from a broken neck (although I may be wrong). However, they WOULD be immune to mind-affecting, so I would have to fix that somehow.

JoshuaZ
2013-11-29, 11:43 AM
If there's a deity involved, can the deity not just fiat the result away? Or more to the point, make this a higher level spell and have the deity cast it?

Network
2013-11-29, 04:50 PM
Well, first of all, I really made it as a wizard spell. I just added the Law domain because it seemed appropriate.
I'm not saying you can't make it a cleric spell, but given that domains are clearly cut as having one spell in them per spell level (except the planar domains, which have two, but also require both of your domain slots), it is a bad idea to change that.

And don't forget, you have Phantasmal Killer at level 4, which is a hostile save-twice-or-die spell. And Phantasmal killer doesn't have the [death] effect, so I didn't add it here.
Don't forget : both saves have to fail. Though I did forget painless death and slay living...

Anyway, like I said, my goal was to reproduce the "Unbreakable Vow" from Harry Potter. If I made it Duration Permanent, then it could be dispelled, correct? I really wanted it to be undispellable, or "unbreakable". I put in there that it can be dispelled by Wish or Miracle, just because they can dispel pretty much everything, but if one of the parts of the vow is "I will not attempt to have this vow dispelled" then trying to get someone to cast that spell on you would kill you before it could succeed.
There is precedence for what I'm suggesting. Bestow Curse is permanent, but cannot be dispelled. Simply copy the sentence over from that spell and remove the spells you don't want (break enchantment, limited wish, remove curse), and you can go with it. In fact, if the duration is instantaneous, then the spell does not work at all, because it clearly states :

This illusory noose lasts as long as the spell does, forever reminding the recipient of their vow.

And a noose should work on Constructs and undead as well, I would imagine. After all, it's supposed to break their neck, and I THINK constructs and undead would die from a broken neck (although I may be wrong). However, they WOULD be immune to mind-affecting, so I would have to fix that somehow.
They wouldn't die from a broken neck as their head is no an important part of their anatomy (except for vampires), though if the spell is intended to work on them, remove the mind-affecting descriptor and switch it to the Shadow subschool.

ericgrau
2013-12-01, 01:58 PM
I love custom spells. Looks good as-is.

You must be sure that the secret is worth less than a raise dead, or at least less than a true resurrection, though. Or someone might break the deal and immediately get resurrected. A greater version of the pact could trap the violator's soul in a statuette owned by the other party. Breaking the statuette would release the soul. You might make it cost 1,000 gp per HD like trap the soul (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trapTheSoul.htm).

EDIT after reading comments: I didn't notice the Law domain. That is messy. You could give the spell the law subtype instead, not that it does anything. It doesn't work on most undead or constructs, but then don't make a deal with those beings. Or make the spell destroy them instead. Either way. But it doesn't matter to your character. The spell level is fine.

Alexkubel
2013-12-01, 04:32 PM
I can't hep but want it to be that the method of death is visible, by that I mean onlookers might just see their head separate from the body with a spurt of blood or being yanked by the rope so that they are seemingly hanging in mid-air for a half moment.

also does it have to be hanging, because it would be interesting but not really important if the method of death can change without change of the components. e.g. rather then a noose of rope you have a pair of daggers poised at your back or a massive great sword.

am I right to think Pepper intends it to be used on themselves not other parties to show that they are serious.

I have to agree with the idea of trapping the soul.

jedipotter
2013-12-02, 12:59 AM
The noose is a bit odd. How does the illusion of a noose kill someone? If this is based of Phantasmal Killer, does it also kill the person with fear? Is it just contingency phantasmal killer?

I think this spell would make a much better necromancy spell.

littlebum2002
2013-12-04, 10:30 AM
I changed it to Shadow subschool, that IS a better fit.

I also removed the law domain. She's a wizard, anway, and has no business creating Divine spells.

I also made Duration: Permanent. As long as I state it can't be dispelled, that shouldn't be a problem, right?



Is it just contingency phantasmal killer?


That's pretty much exactly what it is.

Amnoriath
2013-12-04, 02:06 PM
Well, first of all, I really made it as a wizard spell. I just added the Law domain because it seemed appropriate.

Second, there is a 3.0 Necromancy spell which was called "painless death". It was a level 1 Cleric spell which gave, well, a painless death to any willing victim. So there is precedent for having a WILLING death spell at low levels.

After all, why should I be a high level to kill a willing person? Killing someone who is allowing you to kill them is something a Level 1 Truenamer can do. The only reason this is a higher level is because it's doing more than killing someone, it's creating a Contingency. So for that reason the argument could be made to make it Level 6, but since it's such a specific Contingency I figured I could lower it a level.

And don't forget, you have Phantasmal Killer at level 4, which is a hostile save-twice-or-die spell. And Phantasmal killer doesn't have the [death] effect, so I didn't add it here.


Anyway, like I said, my goal was to reproduce the "Unbreakable Vow" from Harry Potter. If I made it Duration Permanent, then it could be dispelled, correct? I really wanted it to be undispellable, or "unbreakable". I put in there that it can be dispelled by Wish or Miracle, just because they can dispel pretty much everything, but if one of the parts of the vow is "I will not attempt to have this vow dispelled" then trying to get someone to cast that spell on you would kill you before it could succeed.



The spell was created because my character (Pepper) wants information from a prophet of a goddess. The goddess won't let him give it to me, because she is afraid the information will fall into the wrong hands. So, I researched this spell, hoping that it will convince the goddess that the information is safe with Pepper. So don't think of it as being used by jailers (even though that was the example I gave, which was a bad one). Think of it being used by spy agencies. If a country wanted to give someone the equivalent of the USA's "Top-Secret" clearance, first they would have to take this vow not to spill any of the information.


And a noose should work on Constructs and undead as well, I would imagine. After all, it's supposed to break their neck, and I THINK constructs and undead would die from a broken neck (although I may be wrong). However, they WOULD be immune to mind-affecting, so I would have to fix that somehow.

1. Which only goes to show that the creators were ever more fallible.
2. Except the problem is the use of the Unbreakable Vow is a plot device to ensure that Severus was to be trusted among the Death Eaters while keeping you on edge. The plot is up to the DM and can use any sort of means to recreate this without telling you exactly so offering as if it was a PC spell expects that it actually does have use for PC's when it doesn't. Also the major problem in which others say it is overpowered with this is that at least geas/quest or planar binding have definitive rules to what they call open ended pacts. If they are open ended it ends after a few days or doesn't happen at all. So you could technically say "Serve me" while misleading them into contextually thinking it is for one thing when the spell would treat it as "Do anything he says or you die". At least Painless Death is very explicit in what it offers.
3. If it is important to the plot the DM should make a quest or other means to get this information. You shouldn't have to fiat progress the plot yourself by offering this spell.
4. Constructs and Undead do not have functioning or defined organs so breaking the wind pipe and spine would do nothing to them because they either don't function or there is none to begin with. They are by definition and word immune to death effects and mind-affecting descriptors.

Network
2013-12-04, 04:41 PM
I changed it to Shadow subschool, that IS a better fit.

I hate to say that, but no, you didn't. Remember: this is not a Phantasm, and subschools are not descriptors.