How to (aim and) throw something over the horizon?

[Nettlekid]

In reading the recent thread regarding builds designed to take over the world, and Red Fel's excellent plot of a excellent stylish swordsman who wins favor with kingdoms by staging wars, I started thinking about how much fun it would be to have a Dvati character who basically was a one (well, two?) man version of Tarquin's scheme from OotS, having each twin within a rival kingdom and conspiring from there. Purely for style, I would love to have them communicate primarily by walking onto the balcony and hurling their weapons into the night sky, to catch their counterpart's weapon with perhaps notes or items affixed to them. But even with the Epic Feat Distant Shot, you're limited to line of sight. It would be so cool to be able to throw something across the horizon into waiting hands, but I don't know how best to do it.

[Carth]

The only plausible way you're going to see far enough to do that is scrying or similar methods of disembodied sight. Or you could both make really, really, tall towers.

[Jormengand]

Throw it to a point you can see, directly above the person who's trying to catch it, and then let it fall into their square.

[Nettlekid]

Throw it to a point you can see, directly above the person who's trying to catch it, and then let it fall into their square.

Would something like the moon count as above them? So that if I knew where the moon was in relation to them, and relation to me, and then threw it into the correct place?

Also, unrelated to the matter at hand but pertaining to throwing in general, how can the Whisperknife's whole "returning weapons return to you if you're still within Line of Sight" thing be abused? I would love to use a Bloodstorm Blade with this, which can make any weapon returning. I feel like there's something clever that can be done, but I don't know what.

[Jormengand]

Would something like the moon count as above them? So that if I knew where the moon was in relation to them, and relation to me, and then threw it into the correct place?

No, I'm saying throw it into a square (cube?) above their square, so it falls onto them due to gravity.

Of course, if your item is intelligent and there's subjective directional gravity about, there's all sorts of fun to be had.

[Nettlekid]

No, I'm saying throw it into a square (cube?) above their square, so it falls onto them due to gravity.

Of course, if your item is intelligent and there's subjective directional gravity about, there's all sorts of fun to be had.

I get what you said, but that basically still boils down to being able to aim at a space over the horizon. If you can do that, you'd probably be able to aim it at their square itself.

[Jormengand]

I get what you said, but that basically still boils down to being able to aim at a space over the horizon. If you can do that, you'd probably be able to aim it at their square itself.

But you can't, because you don't have LoS to their square. You do have LoS to 100-odd feet above their square. Rules as written may be stupid, but what you're doing is honestly very similar to what you'd do in real life - you aim above them, not at them.

[limejuicepowder]

Binder 1 gives malphus, who lets you summon a bird at-will who you share sight with. The bird flies around, sees something, and you throw something and it from a few miles away.

[Jormengand]

Binder 1 gives malphus, who lets you summon a bird at-will who you share sight with. The bird flies around, sees something, and you throw something and it from a few miles away.

You still don't have line of effect to the square.

[Chronos]

If you're dvati, isn't it pretty simple anyway*? You in the Empire of Blood have line of sight to you in the Empire of Sweat, because you're in the Empire of Sweat. You are yourself, after all.

*Well, as simple as anything relating to dvati ever is, anyway

[Jormengand]

If you're dvati, isn't it pretty simple anyway*? You in the Empire of Blood have line of sight to you in the Empire of Sweat, because you're in the Empire of Sweat. You are yourself, after all.

*Well, as simple as anything relating to dvati ever is, anyway

But you're two creatures for purposes of line of effect, which is really the issue here.

[HaikenEdge]

I'm kind of curious how D&D deals with the curvature of a world in general; assuming an infinite Spot check, a character can see all the way around the world, presumably, since there's a penalty for distance, but some of that makes no sense if it's assumed the world is not flat. I'm actually kind of curious how that's dealt with in-game.

[Jormengand]

I'm kind of curious how D&D deals with the curvature of a world in general; assuming an infinite Spot check, a character can see all the way around the world, presumably, since there's a penalty for distance, but some of that makes no sense if it's assumed the world is not flat. I'm actually kind of curious how that's dealt with in-game.

The world is generally considered to be flat in D&D terms (material plane and all) which causes problems when truenamers start having blindsight. No, not blindsight 30 ft, not blindsight 60 ft, just blindsight. Line of effect to it? I can see it.

Fortunately, towers and such will block your line of effect, but the approved method is to be on a mountain. Then, only people in the "Shadow" of a large tower or similar will be outside of what you can see.

And then, you just need something with infinite range. Clearly, gestalting truenamer and worldspeaker is the way forth. *Nods.* (Target of "Creature seen" indeed. Unfortunately, WS is homebrew and a 'namer fix, but...)

Incidentally, can anyone think of something with infinite range, and either infinite or a lot of uses/day?

[HaikenEdge]

The world is generally considered to be flat in D&D terms (material plane and all) which causes problems when truenamers start having blindsight. No, not blindsight 30 ft, not blindsight 60 ft, just blindsight. Line of effect to it? I can see it.

Fortunately, towers and such will block your line of effect, but the approved method is to be on a mountain. Then, only people in the "Shadow" of a large tower or similar will be outside of what you can see.

And then, you just need something with infinite range. Clearly, gestalting truenamer and worldspeaker is the way forth. *Nods.* (Target of "Creature seen" indeed. Unfortunately, WS is homebrew and a 'namer fix, but...)

Incidentally, can anyone think of something with infinite range, and either infinite or a lot of uses/day?

Dragonwrought Kobold with Distant Shot?

[Jormengand]

Dragonwrought Kobold with Distant Shot?

Niiiiiiiice. Truenamer 21, dragonwrought kobold with distant shot...

Oh, or I could multiclass into rogue, wear snipers' goggles and then sneak attack anything I can see! Because I don't need to take more TN levels to put points in TS, I can have enough stuff to give myself blindsight, then go to town. Or rather, the nearest mountain.

Anything pre-epic? Doubt it, but...

[Sith_Happens]

But you're two creatures for purposes of line of effect, which is really the issue here.

Distant Shot says you can shoot anything in line of sight. Line of effect therefore becomes irrelevant.

[Jormengand]

Distant Shot says you can shoot anything in line of sight. Line of effect therefore becomes irrelevant.

Yeah, but this was before we started talking about distant shot, so I didn't think of that.

Though it still has total concealment, but our truenamer can fix that too...

[HaikenEdge]

Niiiiiiiice. Truenamer 21, dragonwrought kobold with distant shot...

Oh, or I could multiclass into rogue, wear snipers' goggles and then sneak attack anything I can see! Because I don't need to take more TN levels to put points in TS, I can have enough stuff to give myself blindsight, then go to town. Or rather, the nearest mountain.

Anything pre-epic? Doubt it, but...

Dragonwrought Kobold can do this pre-epic, since an Dragonwrought Kobold is considered a True Dragon, so if Old, can access Epic feats without having more than 20 HD.

[Jormengand]

Dragonwrought Kobold can do this pre-epic, since an Dragonwrought Kobold is considered a True Dragon, so if Old, can access Epic feats without having more than 20 HD.

...

Wow.

Unfortunately, this requires that you be a truenamer 14, but... ehh.

[ShurikVch]

Frost Helm soulmeld, gives you a ray attack, of arbitrary range, when bound to the Crown Chakra
(from the Completely Dysfunctional Handbook)

[Jormengand]

Frost Helm soulmeld, gives you a ray attack, of arbitrary range, when bound to the Crown Chakra
(from the Completely Dysfunctional Handbook)

How good is this ray attack? (Basically, is it better than my choice of ranged weapon?)

[ShurikVch]

How good is this ray attack? (Basically, is it better than my choice of ranged weapon?)
Cold damage: 1d6 plus 1d6 "for every point of essentia you invest in your frost helm"

[Jormengand]

Cold damage: 1d6 plus 1d6 "for every point of essentia you invest in your frost helm"

Hmmm...

I'd rather stick with being able to pull this off at fourteenth, by going flat truenamer. It's pretty naff for 14th-level as-is.

[HaikenEdge]

...

Wow.

Unfortunately, this requires that you be a truenamer 14, but... ehh.

It could be worse. If you're going to go that far ranged anyways, the HD on the chassis is less important than the BAB, and the Truenamer has a passable BAB. I'd probably go something like this:

Steelflight, Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold (White) Truenamer 14/Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 6
(Assume 28 point buy) Str 8, Dex 20, Con 8, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 13
01. Truenamer 01 - Dragonwrought (White)
02. Truenamer 02
03. Truenamer 03 - Item Familiar (for boosting skills)
04. Truenamer 04
05. Truenamer 05
06. Truenamer 06 - Point Blank Shot
07. Truenamer 07
08. Truenamer 08
09. Truenamer 09 - Far Shot
10. Truenamer 10
11. Truenamer 11
12. Truenamer 12 - Martial Study (Cloak of Deception)
13. Truenamer 13
14. Truenamer 14
15. Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 01 - Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance)
16. Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 02
17. Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 03
18. Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 04 - Distant Shot
19. Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 05
20. Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 06
This should give you a BAB of +16 (good for 4 attacks, if you're so inclined), +5d6 Sneak Attack (+3d6 from Sneak Attack Fighter levels, +2d6 from Assassin's Stance). Pump Dex and get an item to boost Dex as well, and getting 25 Dex at level 18 is reasonable enough to qualify for Distant Shot (which also requires 20 ranks of Spot).

Since UMD is a class skill for the Truenamer, no reason why you couldn't get a wand of Sniper's Shot, an 1st level spell that allows the next shot at any distance to be a sneak attack. If the GM allows UA Generic classes to be combined with the non-generic classes, grab UA Warrior 6 instead and stack on +9d6 Sneak Attack; if the GM allows for custom item crafting, see if you can get a bow with a use-activated Sniper's Shot.

Given the range the the character would be shooting from, there's no reason why the character wouldn't always get a surprise round, and given the amount of Dex this build should have, shouldn't win Initiative in the first round. If flaws are allowed, grab Improved Initiative + Superior Initiative (the latter of which is also Epic). Or find a way to be psionic, then grab Psionic Shot and Fell Shot to make the first shot a ranged touch attack.

[Deophaun]

Dragonwrought Kobold can do this pre-epic, since an Dragonwrought Kobold is considered a True Dragon, so if Old, can access Epic feats without having more than 20 HD.
A) It's considered a True Dragon by certain questionable interpretations of RAW that get debated over and over and cause threads to die in horrid, prolonged agony.
B) But for the larger point, any dragon, true or not, can take epic feats.

[Jormengand]

-stuff-

It gets worse with PF - SNIPER'S GOGGLES FOR FUN AND PROFIT!

[HaikenEdge]

B) But for the larger point, any dragon, true or not, can take epic feats.

Only if they're Old or older.