OOTS #G003 - The Discussion Thread

[Dr. Gamera]

Issue #3 of Gygax magazine is out. (This time, I got my print copy before any indication of a PDF copy.)

Issue #3 includes OOTS #G003, "Reboot to the Face". Amusing, shatters the fourth wall, and finallly, the answer to the following question is revealed: "Has the Giant always drawn Vaarsuvius as a male, or has the Giant always drawn Vaarsuvius as a female?"

(Spoiler for OOTS #G003, but not really for the main OOTS comic.)
As of OOTS #G003, we know the answer to be "neither". But we don't know which gender Vaarsuvius is in the main OOTS comic. In mathematical terms, it's an existence proof, not a constructive proof.
Here's a link to the thread for OOTS #G002, "Wandering Mommies and Daddies" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298908). The continuity of OOTS #G003 is very much directly after OOTS #G002, and OOTS #G003 directly addresses the continuity vis-a-vis the main OOTS comic.

[JustIgnoreMe]

Hmm, the pdf isn't on DriveThru, which is where I normally buy it from. Maybe after the weekend.

[Ramien]

Just got mine in the mail yesterday. It's nice to see that the more things change, the more things stay the same...

[DaggerPen]

Hmm, the pdf isn't on DriveThru, which is where I normally buy it from. Maybe after the weekend.

Can I have the link to this, by the way? I honestly have no idea where to find these issues.

[Ramien]

Can I have the link to this, by the way? I honestly have no idea where to find these issues.

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse.php?manufacturers_id=5203

[DaggerPen]

Thank you!

[Sunken Valley]

Why does this thing have zero publicity? It's like Rich is ashamed of it.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I think it gets mentioned in his Twitter feed. I don't have the time to keep up with Twitter though, so that's just a guess.

[Ramien]

Why does this thing have zero publicity? It's like Rich is ashamed of it.

It got linked to in the 10th anniversary post, if nothing else.

[Porthos]

Got mine in the mail today.

You know, I thot V did look slightly different in this update. :smalltongue:

Ah, the power of suggestion. :smallbiggrin:

[BirdHarvester]

The pdf is finally available for purchase on drivethrustuff.com. I just bought mine and figured people might want to know. It helps satisfy my OOTS cravings as I wait for the next comic. :smalltongue:

[DaggerPen]

Woo! Thanks!

Finally got my hands on it, and as a DC comics fan with some serious qualms with the reboot, I have to say, I laughed.

"I think my long-established harmonious marriage has been retroactively abolished so it never happened," heh.

[Grey Watcher]

Got mine in the mail today.

You know, I thot V did look slightly different in this update. :smalltongue:

Ah, the power of suggestion. :smallbiggrin:

Actually, to me V looks consistent with the previous two Gygax Magazine strips, but there's a definite change in the way the hair is drawn from the main continuity and Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tails. It's enough that, while I've always thought of V as male, the Gygax Magazine art definitely gives off a more feminine vibe to me. And given that V just stated that his gender has changed from the main continuity....

[Porthos]

Actually, to me V looks consistent with the previous two Gygax Magazine strips, but there's a definite change in the way the hair is drawn from the main continuity and Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tails. It's enough that, while I've always thought of V as male, the Gygax Magazine art definitely gives off a more feminine vibe to me. And given that V just stated that his gender has changed from the main continuity....

To be fair, I didn't go back and check the other GM strips to do a cross-reference. It's just when the statement was made it suddenly struck me that V looked slightly different.

As I said, I chalked it up to the power of suggestion, but I suspect you're on to something here.

[DaggerPen]

To be fair, I didn't go back and check the other GM strips to do a cross-reference. It's just when the statement was made it suddenly struck me that V looked slightly different.

As I said, I chalked it up to the power of suggestion, but I suspect you're on to something here.

I think it's probably just a side effect of designs closer to the original designs being drawn with Rich's fancy new art skills; while there are some outfit changes (ex., Haley's armor now covering her stomach), and while Elan has his Dashing Swordsman clothes and all, I think V's original hairstyle just looks more feminine in this style. Rich may be making a bit more of an effort to make vir look ambiguous, too.

Anyway, if Giant WERE trying to make V look more feminine, I'd honestly take it as more of an indication that V was male here than anything else, because that's the type of thing he'd do.

[Rogar Demonblud]

So true, and it isn't even a spoiler.

[SavageWombat]

I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't the only one who saw the absolutely vicious digs at the comic industry in this strip.

[Sir_Leorik]

I know Rich probably meant this line as a knock against DC Comics, but when Elan says

:elan: "Only if the kids who read our old adventures grow up to take control of the industry. Then they'll reboot us again to match their memories",

it sounds ironic when that line is being published in an old-school RPG magazine published by Luke and Ernie Gygax. :smalltongue:

Also I love how the details that have never been revealed in the online strip (V's gender, Belkar's backstory) are completely changed in the "reboot".

:smallbiggrin:

[Ramien]

I know Rich probably meant this line as a knock against DC Comics, but when Elan says

:elan: "Only if the kids who read our old adventures grow up to take control of the industry. Then they'll reboot us again to match their memories",

it sounds ironic when that line is being published in an old-school RPG magazine published by Luke and Ernie Gygax. :smalltongue:

Also I love how the details that have never been revealed in the online strip (V's gender, Belkar's backstory) are completely changed in the "reboot".

:smallbiggrin:

I don't think it was just a dig at DC, because Marvel's been going down that same path, just with less 'global' reboots and more on an individual basis. Look at Jean Grey, for example, or Spider-Man after Joe Quesada got his hands on the webslinger.

On the other hand... V's single with no regrets about the breakup, so Belkar has a chance now!

[DaggerPen]

I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't the only one who saw the absolutely vicious digs at the comic industry in this strip.

Speaking as a deeply disgruntled DC fan, you were definitely not.

[Sir_Leorik]

I don't think it was just a dig at DC, because Marvel's been going down that same path, just with less 'global' reboots and more on an individual basis. Look at Jean Grey, for example, or Spider-Man after Joe Quesada got his hands on the webslinger.

On the other hand... V's single with no regrets about the breakup, so Belkar has a chance now!

I think that DC is far more guilty of this sort of behavior than Marvel is. For all my gripes about the way Brian Bendis writes dialogue, his love for characters like Luke Cage is genuine, but he hasn't tried to force them back to their roots. Rather than reverting Luke back to his Power Man days, Bendis took the character in a brand new direction, having him join the Avengers, marry Mary Sue Jessica Jones and be a bad-a$$ character, while doing something new. The same goes for Dan Slott on "Amazing Spider-Man", where he took sad-sack Peter Parker to his lowest point (fired as his job as photographer for Mayor J. Jonah Jameson) and turned him into a research scientist at a start-up company, where Peter turned the inventions he used to fight crime into medical devices, consumer electronics and other interesting products. Then Doc Ock stole Peter's life. Bet ya didn't see that coming, huh?

Meanwhile, at DC, Geoff Johns is single-handedly responsible for sidelining characters like Kyle Rayner and Wally West, legacy heroes who earned the affection of fans during the 1990's, while shoehorning the heroes they replaced back into continuity. He rewrote Superboy's origin, forcing his head-canon about who donated Connor's human DNA, changing the donor from Project Cadmus' crooked director to Lex Luthor (who was masquerading as Lex Luthor Jr. at the time Superboy was created by Project Cadmus, and took steps to recover Superman's body from Cadmus to keep him from being cloned!). Geoff Johns has never met a piece of post-Crisis continuty he didn't want reverted back to the Bronze Age status quo, and now he's become Dan DiDio's hitman when it comes to reboots. If the nu52 doesn't increase sales, DiDio will order another reboot, and another and another.

Meanwhile, at the House of Ideas, they have good ideas ("Superior Spider-Man") and bad ideas ("Avengers Arena"), but they aren't rehashing every single idea from the last fifty-odd years. Marvel is still capable of entertaining me; I can no longer say the same for DC.

As for Gygaxian!Belkar and Gygaxian!V, won't that be awkward, now that V's gender has changed, and Belkar's childhood traumas have changed, given him different fetishes? :smalltongue:


Speaking as a deeply disgruntled DC fan, you were definitely not.

Add me to the list of deeply disgruntled DC fans. The nu52 is full of the worst problems from the '90s, the continuity makes no sense, and worst of all it's not a fun universe to live in. When the Marvel Universe, with Sentinels, anti-Mutant bigots, Mutant terrorists, Atlantean invasions, Thanos casually wiping out half the lifeforms in the universe and the Moleman causing traffic delays in front of the Baxter Building every time Giganto pops up, is a more pleasant universe to live in than one with Superman in it, something has seriously gone off the rails. Manhattan may get trashed once a week in the Marvel Universe, but the Avengers, the FF or the X-Men will save the day, and Damage Control will show up by 5:00 PM to clean everything up, so nobody has to miss work in the morning. Can the nu52 Justice League make that guarantee? I don't think so! :smallannoyed:

[DaggerPen]

As for Gygaxian!Belkar and Gygaxian!V, won't that be awkward, now that V's gender has changed, and Belkar's childhood traumas have changed, given him different fetishes? :smalltongue:

Ah, but as long as Belkar is still a gourmet chef, V's love of bakers may still save the day.



Add me to the list of deeply disgruntled DC fans. The nu52 is full of the worst problems from the '90s, the continuity makes no sense, and worst of all it's not a fun universe to live in. When the Marvel Universe, with Sentinels, anti-Mutant bigots, Mutant terrorists, Atlantean invasions, Thanos casually wiping out half the lifeforms in the universe and the Moleman causing traffic delays in front of the Baxter Building every time Giganto pops up, is a more pleasant universe to live in than one with Superman in it, something has seriously gone off the rails. Manhattan may get trashed once a week in the Marvel Universe, but the Avengers, the FF or the X-Men will save the day, and Damage Control will show up by 5:00 PM to clean everything up, so nobody has to miss work in the morning. Can the nu52 Justice League make that guarantee? I don't think so! :smallannoyed:

You and I seem to have similar opinions regarding DC, and I'm curious whether you also miss Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown and Barbara Gordon as Oracle instead of whatever they're doing with her as Batgirl now. (I also really miss the old Arrow family, too... and Superman and Lois being married... and Superman and Wonder Woman not having any romantic interest in each other whatsoever... and superheroes being allowed to get married, period... and the Amazons not kidnapping sailors impregnating themselves, killing the sailors, and having killed any male children before Hephestus started taking them in... and Wonder Woman not having a father... and the universe not generally dedicating itself to being crushingly depressing... and - I'll shut up now.)

And yes, I know that Stephanie's coming back, I was at the mic in the panel when it was announced. But after they removed her as Nightwing in Smallville and literally recolored her in a cameo in Li'l Gotham, it was a long time coming.

[Sir_Leorik]

Ah, but as long as Belkar is still a gourmet chef, V's love of bakers may still save the day.

True, but if V's gender has changed a certain way, will Belkar be willing to make the slash fans happy? And if V's gender has changed a certain way, would V's courting of Belkar upset the slash fans? Those slash fellas are an ornery bunch, and V and Belkar could cause lots of angry letters to "Gygaxian Magazine"! :smalltongue:



You and I seem to have similar opinions regarding DC, and I'm curious whether you also miss Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown and Barbara Gordon as Oracle instead of whatever they're doing with her as Batgirl now. (I also really miss the old Arrow family, too... and Superman and Lois being married... and Superman and Wonder Woman not having any romantic interest in each other whatsoever... and superheroes being allowed to get married, period... and the Amazons not kidnapping sailors impregnating themselves, killing the sailors, and having killed any male children before Hephestus started taking them in... and Wonder Woman not having a father... and the universe not generally dedicating itself to being crushingly depressing... and - I'll shut up now.)

And yes, I know that Stephanie's coming back, I was at the mic in the panel when it was announced. But after they removed her as Nightwing in Smallville and literally recolored her in a cameo in Li'l Gotham, it was a long time coming.

My complaints begin with the lack of narrative cohesion between the various books, and work their way down. The writers had barely any notice that a reboot was coming, unlike in 1985-86, when everyone at DC editorial were making plans for the end of "Crisis on Infinite Earths". There were too many titles launched, several with awful artwork due to the rushed deadlines. Batman's continuity makes no sense; if he's only been Batman for six or seven years, how has Bruce Wayne had three two Robins, and was able to father Damien? Why was Mr. Freeze's backstory changed? Why was Harley Quinn turned from a tragic obsessive to a stripper? Why did the Joker audition for "Face-Off"?

I liked Grant Morrison's new take on Superman's origin in "Action Comics", but the problem is that there was no collaboration between Morrison and George Perez, who was writing "Superman", nor did Geoff Johns collaborate with Morrison or Perez, or any of the Batman writers. Johns' "Aquaman" is a disgrace. I was a long-time fan of Peter David's "Aquaman" book, and PAD showed how to use Aquaman in new ways, which Morrison and Mark Waid imitated in "JLA".

I'll be honest that I'm not the biggest "Teen Titan" fan in the world, but the wiping away of all past Teen Titan teams is a bit of an insult to Perez and Marv Wolfman, and everyone else who's worked on the book. I'm a big Legion of Superheroes fan, and while Paul Levitz' book was okay, "Legion Lost" was just awful. What they did to Gates, one of the three non-humans on the team, is an atrocity, especially since it was done for shock value. Gates' apparently died in the first issue of "Legion Lost" when the team's Time Capsule exploded. He was later revealed to have teleported away, but was captured and subjected to a virus which warped his insectoid appearance.

I liked "Demon Knights" and "Animal Man", but with the price increases, and the disgust I felt with many of DC's changes and their attitude to customers, I started dumping books.

Regarding Wonder Woman, the irony is that I don't mind her having a father, but I think they dropped the ball by making her Zeus' bastard daughter. There was a better option: making her the daughter of Herakles, conceived when Herakles visited the Amazons to steal the Girdle of Hypolita as part of his Twelve Labors. In Marvel's "Incredible Hercules" series, Herc tells his sidekick Amadeus Cho about how he wooed Hypolita, and they enjoyed a night of passion, before Herc fled with the Girdle in one hand, his tunic in the other, chased by a horde of Amazons. :smallamused:

Diana could have been conceived in the same way, and out of shame at being taken advantage of by Herakles (who was much more brutal in the George Perez and John Byrne stories from the post-Crisis continuity, than the Avengers' lovable goof-ball Herc is) and sought to leave the child to die. Hera, Athena and Aphrodite appeared to Hypolita, and told her to give them the child whom they turned to clay, until the day Hypolita's heart yearned for a daughter. They also blessed Diana with beauty, virtue and wisdom, and she gains her strength, stamina, and speed from her father. This way Diana's connection to her mother is preserved, and she can learn the truth about Herakles and he can become a major member of her Rogues' Gallery, or they can join forces to battle Ares or Circe.

Otherwise, I enjoy the idea that Wonder Woman is more closely tied to Greek mythology. That way she represents the fantastic and magical, Superman represents science-fiction, and Batman represents the old pulp heroes that inspired Bill Finger and Bob Kane, like the Shadow or Zorro. That way each of the "Trinity" of heroes who headline the Justice League represent one of the three genres that every DC hero embodies.

Any thoughts?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Makes more sense than anything coming out of the Executive Editor offices.

[DaggerPen]

True, but if V's gender has changed a certain way, will Belkar be willing to make the slash fans happy? And if V's gender has changed a certain way, would V's courting of Belkar upset the slash fans? Those slash fellas are an ornery bunch, and V and Belkar could cause lots of angry letters to "Gygaxian Magazine"! :smalltongue:

I think the real question is, with how much Miko already divided the fanbase, what type of uproar will the upcoming Miko/Vaarsuvius/Belkar love triangle create?

Also, I like how you say slash fellas like the vast majority of us aren't female. :P


My complaints begin with the lack of narrative cohesion between the various books, and work their way down. The writers had barely any notice that a reboot was coming, unlike in 1985-86, when everyone at DC editorial were making plans for the end of "Crisis on Infinite Earths". There were too many titles launched, several with awful artwork due to the rushed deadlines. Batman's continuity makes no sense; if he's only been Batman for six or seven years, how has Bruce Wayne had three two Robins, and was able to father Damien? Why was Mr. Freeze's backstory changed? Why was Harley Quinn turned from a tragic obsessive to a stripper? Why did the Joker audition for "Face-Off"?

Yeah, the whole "we sat down and wrote out a cohesive timeline well before the reboot" line is total BS. DC wasn't exactly a shining pinnacle of internal coherency and writer communication before the reboot, but things like the Tim Drake Robin debacle just really take the cake. There is clearly almost NO communication happening between writers, excepting Snyder's apprenticeship program deal, and stuff like the Batwoman debacle show that editorial isn't any better at communicating, either with different levels of editorial or with the writers themselves, given that writers have been repeatedly asked to make eleventh hour changes to plotlines that had been approved months or even over a year in advance, despite Didio promising not to do so.


I'll be honest that I'm not the biggest "Teen Titan" fan in the world, but the wiping away of all past Teen Titan teams is a bit of an insult to Perez and Marv Wolfman, and everyone else who's worked on the book. I'm a big Legion of Superheroes fan, and while Paul Levitz' book was okay, "Legion Lost" was just awful. What they did to Gates, one of the three non-humans on the team, is an atrocity, especially since it was done for shock value. Gates' apparently died in the first issue of "Legion Lost" when the team's Time Capsule exploded. He was later revealed to have teleported away, but was captured and subjected to a virus which warped his insectoid appearance.

Honestly, I'm not even touching New 52 Teen Titans - as a Jason Todd fan, I've already seen how absolutely awful Scott Lobdell's writing is, and I have no interest in subjecting myself to more of it. Still, the role of Wally West and Donna Troy, as well as the original Teen Titans, in comic book history is huge, and just wiping that all away is definitely a slap in the face to Perez and Wolfman. Not to mention, it's pretty clear that this is yet another massive continuity change that writers were informed about well after the reboot started, given references to the old Teen Titans team in early issues of the Nu52. I'm afraid I don't know much about LOSH, but I'm sorry to hear that it's been such a mess.


I liked "Demon Knights" and "Animal Man", but with the price increases, and the disgust I felt with many of DC's changes and their attitude to customers, I started dumping books.

Seriously. So much for drawing the line at $3.99, especially for books that wouldn't even be worth $0.99 (there are very few New 52 books I have purchased and not regretted buying, though there aren't many New 52 books I've purchased anyway - I went from buying maybe 10 titles before the reboot to buying one immediately after the reboot, to buying none of the New 52 line a few months after I finally realized RHATO wasn't going to stop sucking, though I have been enjoying Li'l Gotham, largely because it isn't in the frelling New 52.)


Regarding Wonder Woman, the irony is that I don't mind her having a father, but I think they dropped the ball by making her Zeus' bastard daughter. There was a better option: making her the daughter of Herakles, conceived when Herakles visited the Amazons to steal the Girdle of Hypolita as part of his Twelve Labors. In Marvel's "Incredible Hercules" series, Herc tells his sidekick Amadeus Cho about how he wooed Hypolita, and they enjoyed a night of passion, before Herc fled with the Girdle in one hand, his tunic in the other, chased by a horde of Amazons. :smallamused:

Diana could have been conceived in the same way, and out of shame at being taken advantage of by Herakles (who was much more brutal in the George Perez and John Byrne stories from the post-Crisis continuity, than the Avengers' lovable goof-ball Herc is) and sought to leave the child to die. Hera, Athena and Aphrodite appeared to Hypolita, and told her to give them the child whom they turned to clay, until the day Hypolita's heart yearned for a daughter. They also blessed Diana with beauty, virtue and wisdom, and she gains her strength, stamina, and speed from her father. This way Diana's connection to her mother is preserved, and she can learn the truth about Herakles and he can become a major member of her Rogues' Gallery, or they can join forces to battle Ares or Circe.

Otherwise, I enjoy the idea that Wonder Woman is more closely tied to Greek mythology. That way she represents the fantastic and magical, Superman represents science-fiction, and Batman represents the old pulp heroes that inspired Bill Finger and Bob Kane, like the Shadow or Zorro. That way each of the "Trinity" of heroes who headline the Justice League represent one of the three genres that every DC hero embodies.

I'm fine with the idea of tying Wonder Woman more into Greek myth, but the problem is that a lot of Greek myth is really full of misogyny, whereas Wonder Woman is kind of supposed to be a feminist icon. I would have really enjoyed some reinterpretations of Greek mythology through that lens, but instead the Amazons just went full-out babykiller.

[Sir_Leorik]

Makes more sense than anything coming out of the Executive Editor offices.

Thanks! Herakles was a recurring villain in the "Wonder Woman" books. In Perez' run he tried to enslave the Amazons, and during Byrne's run he was revealed to be imprisoned beneath Themyscira.

It seems so odd to have a Wonder Woman who doesn't cry out "Great Hera!", and that's pretty much the current state. Diana and Hera are enemies now. Otherwise I really liked that book.

[DaggerPen]

Thanks! Herakles was a recurring villain in the "Wonder Woman" books. In Perez' run he tried to enslave the Amazons, and during Byrne's run he was revealed to be imprisoned beneath Themyscira.

It seems so odd to have a Wonder Woman who doesn't cry out "Great Hera!", and that's pretty much the current state. Diana and Hera are enemies now. Otherwise I really liked that book.

Personally, I miss Suffering Sappho. :P

[Sir_Leorik]

I think the real question is, with how much Miko already divided the fanbase, what type of uproar will the upcoming Miko/Vaarsuvius/Belkar love triangle create?

Also, I like how you say slash fellas like the vast majority of us aren't female. :P

Hey, I'm tryin' not to judge! The real catastrophe will be with people trying to ship Elan with his twin sister Lena, leader of the Linear Gang. Despite Lena being in a committed relationship with Sabino the Incubus, to boot! After the Reboot, Thog is even dumber than ever, and Zz'Ditri belongs to a different Drow House. :smalltongue:


Yeah, the whole "we sat down and wrote out a cohesive timeline well before the reboot" line is total BS. DC wasn't exactly a shining pinnacle of internal coherency and writer communication before the reboot, but things like the Tim Drake Robin debacle just really take the cake. There is clearly almost NO communication happening between writers, excepting Snyder's apprenticeship program deal, and stuff like the Batwoman debacle show that editorial isn't any better at communicating, either with different levels of editorial or with the writers themselves, given that writers have been repeatedly asked to make eleventh hour changes to plotlines that had been approved months or even over a year in advance, despite Didio promising not to do so.

DC's current editorial staff is functioning the way Marvel was circa 1995-6, back when Bob Harras was the EIC. Which is no surprise, since Bob Harras is the EIC. I know that Joe Quesada gets a lot of grief thrown his way for "One More Day" and "One Moment In Time" (a lot of it deserved), but I feel that he runs a very tight ship at Marvel. I'd prefer if they did fewer cross-overs, but that's because I prefer cross-over to be something special. When Marvel does one right, like "House of M" or "Siege", they hit them out of the park. I just wish they let their "new status quo" last more than eight months. :smallsigh:

A good example is the "Dark Reign" storyline, where Norman Osborne, the friggin' Green Goblin himself, is promoted from head of the Thunderbolts to director of National Security, after he makes a kill shot on the Skrull Queen and wins public acclaim. "Dark Reign" didn't run longer than it needed to, affected the status quo of the Avengers, Spider-Man and the X-Men, and created a new team, of "Dark Avengers" for Osborne to lead. Osborne might have succeeded where no villain but Dr. Doom or Baron Zemo has succeeded before, had it not been for Loki whispering in Osborne's ear.

By contrast, DC's villains rarely make such bold moves, with the notable exceptions of Lex Luthor, Ra's al-Ghul and Vandal Savage. DC's villains are for the most part not very complicated, again with notable exceptions. They're supposed to be dark contrasts to very bright heroes, like Superman, Wonder Woman or even Batman. Right now at Marvel, Doctor Octopus has stolen Spider-Man's body, but he's decided to become a better, "superior" Spider-Man to Peter Parker. But he can't be superior to Peter in one way: morally. By contrast, in "All-Star Superman", when Lex Luthor gains Superman's powers for a short time, he sees the world from Superman's perspective, and he physically can't be a villain any more. That's the difference between Superman and Spider-Man (at least according to Grant Morrison and Dan Slott, respectively, :smalltongue:).

That's been tossed away by DC. Don't get me wrong, I liked Morrison's new take on Superman in "Action Comics", but every other appearance of the nu52 Superman irks me on some level.


Honestly, I'm not even touching New 52 Teen Titans - as a Jason Todd fan, I've already seen how absolutely awful Scott Lobdell's writing is, and I have no interest in subjecting myself to more of it. Still, the role of Wally West and Donna Troy, as well as the original Teen Titans, in comic book history is huge, and just wiping that all away is definitely a slap in the face to Perez and Wolfman. Not to mention, it's pretty clear that this is yet another massive continuity change that writers were informed about well after the reboot started, given references to the old Teen Titans team in early issues of the Nu52. I'm afraid I don't know much about LOSH, but I'm sorry to hear that it's been such a mess.

The main "Legion of Superheroes" book, which takes place in the 31st Century and is mostly untouched by the nu52, is much better than "Legion Lost". They have different writers, and since the "Legion Lost" crew are stuck in the 21st century and the Time Trapper is keeping them from being rescued, those Legionnaires stuck in the past will continue to muddle along. :smallsigh:


I'm fine with the idea of tying Wonder Woman more into Greek myth, but the problem is that a lot of Greek myth is really full of misogyny, whereas Wonder Woman is kind of supposed to be a feminist icon. I would have really enjoyed some reinterpretations of Greek mythology through that lens, but instead the Amazons just went full-out babykiller.

I think George Perez tried to find a good middle ground between the actual Greek myths, which as you said are not exactly friendly to women (or children) and the idealized Amazons that William Moulton Marston invented. It could be worse, the Amazons could be burning one of their breasts off to improve their aim. :smallyuk:

[Sir_Leorik]

Personally, I miss Suffering Sappho. :P

I don't think the editors will let that one back in.

Though the editors at Marvel let Greg Pak and Fred van Lente include a version of the Ode to Sappho, as rewritten by a horny Amadeus Cho, in one issue of "Incredible Hercules". :smallamused:

EDIT: I will add that at Herc's funeral, Northstar was pretty overcome with grief. The two of them were close for a while, before Herc moved on to his next conquest.

[DaggerPen]

Hey, I'm tryin' not to judge! The real catastrophe will be with people trying to ship Elan with his twin sister Lena, leader of the Linear Gang. Despite Lena being in a committed relationship with Sabino the Incubus, to boot! After the Reboot, Thog is even dumber than ever, and Zz'Ditri belongs to a different Drow House. :smalltongue:

One looks forward to the adventures of Lena in Cliffport with the Girdle of Masculinity-Femininity, though.


DC's current editorial staff is functioning the way Marvel was circa 1995-6, back when Bob Harras was the EIC. Which is no surprise, since Bob Harras is the EIC.

Exactly! Didio's got a lot of his own micromanaging problems, but Harras almost drove Marvel into the ground, and now he's over at DC doing the exact same thing. Can we maybe get some pattern recognition going on here?


By contrast, DC's villains rarely make such bold moves, with the notable exceptions of Lex Luthor, Ra's al-Ghul and Vandal Savage. DC's villains are for the most part not very complicated, again with notable exceptions. They're supposed to be dark contrasts to very bright heroes, like Superman, Wonder Woman or even Batman. Right now at Marvel, Doctor Octopus has stolen Spider-Man's body, but he's decided to become a better, "superior" Spider-Man to Peter Parker. But he can't be superior to Peter in one way: morally. By contrast, in "All-Star Superman", when Lex Luthor gains Superman's powers for a short time, he sees the world from Superman's perspective, and he physically can't be a villain any more. That's the difference between Superman and Spider-Man (at least according to Grant Morrison and Dan Slott, respectively, :smalltongue:).

That's been tossed away by DC. Don't get me wrong, I liked Morrison's new take on Superman in "Action Comics", but every other appearance of the nu52 Superman irks me on some level.

I am really tired of them trying to de-boy-scout Superman. It's possible to do complex storylines and deal with gray areas without turning Superman into a colossal jerk who heat visions off Dr. Light's face over a misunderstanding.


The main "Legion of Superheroes" book, which takes place in the 31st Century and is mostly untouched by the nu52, is much better than "Legion Lost". They have different writers, and since the "Legion Lost" crew are stuck in the 21st century and the Time Trapper is keeping them from being rescued, those Legionnaires stuck in the past will continue to muddle along. :smallsigh:

Aha. One can only hope that whatever happens in Legion Lost will be swiftly retconned by the main LOSH book upon completion of the plotlines, then.



I think George Perez tried to find a good middle ground between the actual Greek myths, which as you said are not exactly friendly to women (or children) and the idealized Amazons that William Moulton Marston invented. It could be worse, the Amazons could be burning one of their breasts off to improve their aim. :smallyuk:

I'm actually working my way through Perez's Wonder Woman right now, and it's probably my favorite version of Wonder Woman thus far. Greg Rucka's Wonder Woman run was fantastic, and will likely remain my favorite run even after I finish with Perez, but Perez seems to do a lot of interesting things with the mythology, and I'd love to see his approach brought back.

And that would not be a particularly ideal return to mythology, no. :smalltongue:

[Sir_Leorik]

One looks forward to the adventures of Lena in Cliffport with the Girdle of Masculinity-Femininity, though.

I just feel we should be discussing the giant rats. Have they been rebooted too? Do they have shippers? Inquiring minds want to know!

On a more serious note, I really liked Clyde Caldwell's cover for "Gygaxian" #3. Great work, from a great artist.


Exactly! Didio's got a lot of his own micromanaging problems, but Harras almost drove Marvel into the ground, and now he's over at DC doing the exact same thing. Can we maybe get some pattern recognition going on here?

Not all the problems at Marvel at the time were Harras' fault. Marvel was heading for bankruptcy at the time, after Ron Perelman's financial shenanigans with the company's stock. There's an excellent book about Marvel's escape from liquidation at the hands of corporate raiders. The name escapes me at the moment. :smallfrown:

But in terms of artistic choices, Bob Harras was responsible for plenty of bad decisions. He was also responsible for overseeing great storylines like "Age of Apocalypse", "Thunderbolts" and "Marvels" at the time, but there were plenty bad comics published at the time. The "Spider-Clone" fiasco, "Heroes Reborn", and the "Fantastic Four" issues where the Invisible Woman dressed like a '90's "bad girl". :smallannoyed:

[DaggerPen]

I just feel we should be discussing the giant rats. Have they been rebooted too? Do they have shippers? Inquiring minds want to know!

On a more serious note, I really liked Clyde Caldwell's cover for "Gygaxian" #3. Great work, from a great artist.

Perhaps they haven't been, and that's why the fight was so tough!

Yeah, it was a great cover.


Not all the problems at Marvel at the time were Harras' fault. Marvel was heading for bankruptcy at the time, after Ron Perelman's financial shenanigans with the company's stock. There's an excellent book about Marvel's escape from liquidation at the hands of corporate raiders. The name escapes me at the moment. :smallfrown:

But in terms of artistic choices, Bob Harras was responsible for plenty of bad decisions. He was also responsible for overseeing great storylines like "Age of Apocalypse", "Thunderbolts" and "Marvels" at the time, but there were plenty bad comics published at the time. The "Spider-Clone" fiasco, "Heroes Reborn", and the "Fantastic Four" issues where the Invisible Woman dressed like a '90's "bad girl". :smallannoyed:

In truth, I'm not too familiar with Marvel, but I do know that Harras had a lot of problems at Marvel that are now also occurring at DC, while Didio rabidly defends every time they finally drive off a writer.

[Sir_Leorik]

In truth, I'm not too familiar with Marvel, but I do know that Harras had a lot of problems at Marvel that are now also occurring at DC, while Didio rabidly defends every time they finally drive off a writer.

As the EIC at Marvel in the mid-1990's, Bob Harras should definitely be blamed for the "Heroes Reborn" fiasco, but Marvel published a lot of great books at the time.

One anecdote that I remember about him from before he became the EIC, had to do with a controversial issue of Peter David's run on "Incredible Hulk". At the time, Betty Banner, Bruce Banner's wife, was pregnant, and PAD was planning for the fetus to be diagnosed with Gamma-Radiation in it's blood. I believe that PAD's script called for Betty and Bruce to discuss whether Betty should have an abortion or not, and although she would carry the baby to term, it would be a Hulk-like creature from birth.

Marvel's publisher and EIC refused to run the story and demanded that instead Betty suffer a miscarriage. PAD refused to write the story they wanted him to write. At the time, Bob Harras was the Editor on "Incredible Hulk", and he approached Peter David and offered to write the script for the issue in question, and PAD accepted. Harras wrote a gentle, tasteful story, that complied with what the publisher and EIC wanted, while keeping many of the plot threads of PAD's storyline. So he's not all bad as an Editor. But as an EIC, especially with a demanding publisher like Dan DiDio, I think he's in over his head.

[DaggerPen]

As the EIC at Marvel in the mid-1990's, Bob Harras should definitely be blamed for the "Heroes Reborn" fiasco, but Marvel published a lot of great books at the time.

One anecdote that I remember about him from before he became the EIC, had to do with a controversial issue of Peter David's run on "Incredible Hulk". At the time, Betty Banner, Bruce Banner's wife, was pregnant, and PAD was planning for the fetus to be diagnosed with Gamma-Radiation in it's blood. I believe that PAD's script called for Betty and Bruce to discuss whether Betty should have an abortion or not, and although she would carry the baby to term, it would be a Hulk-like creature from birth.

Marvel's publisher and EIC refused to run the story and demanded that instead Betty suffer a miscarriage. PAD refused to write the story they wanted him to write. At the time, Bob Harras was the Editor on "Incredible Hulk", and he approached Peter David and offered to write the script for the issue in question, and PAD accepted. Harras wrote a gentle, tasteful story, that complied with what the publisher and EIC wanted, while keeping many of the plot threads of PAD's storyline. So he's not all bad as an Editor. But as an EIC, especially with a demanding publisher like Dan DiDio, I think he's in over his head.

Huh. That's interesting. He does sound like he might be a good editor, but as EIC... yeah, he definitely seems over his head at best.

[Unisus]

And now, after a "short" detour to Marvel and DC back to topic: ;)

Is it just me, or is the OotS-Comic in GM3 in a lower resolution than before?

[DeliaP]

I know that Joe Quesada gets a lot of grief thrown his way for "One More Day" ....

I'd assumed that V's reference to the marriage with Inkyrius being retconned out of existence was precisely a dig at Quesada and Marvel for "One More Day"

Hey, I managed to bring it back to a reference to the comic!
Spoiler tags are fun, aren't they?:smallbiggrin:

[Sir_Leorik]

I'd assumed that V's reference to the marriage with Inkyrius being retconned out of existence was precisely a dig at Quesada and Marvel for "One More Day"

Hey, I managed to bring it back to a reference to the comic!
Spoiler tags are fun, aren't they?:smallbiggrin:


Or it could be a dig at DC for retconning the marriages of Clark Kent and Lois Lane, Barry Allen and Iris West, Wally West and Linda Park, Olliver Queen and Dinah Lance, and possibly King Arthur "Orin" Curry and Queen Mera of Poseidonis and Tritonis (I'm not sure if that one got retconned or not). I think the only marriages that survived the nu52 were Apollo and the Midnighter and Buddy Baker and his wife (I don't remember her name :smallredface:). I don't know if Ralph and Sue Dibny were still married in this continuity (or if Sue was murdered by Ray Palmer's ex-wife, who may have never married him), nor do I know if Garth Ranzz and Imra Ardeen (aka Lightning Man and Saturn Woman of the Legion of Superheroes) are still married.

Once upon a time women in the DCU needed to worry about being stuffed into a refridgerator; now they also need to worry that even if they survive to see their wedding day, it won't be retroactively annulled by a fickle publisher. Say what you will about Mephisto, he told the Parkers what would happen in very clear terms. As dumb as the storyline was, it was a story about Peter and MJ's marriage and whether they were willing to give that up to save Aunt May. Clark and Lois' marriage was dissolved thanks to a storyline about the Flash, and never got to say goodbye to each other. :smallannoyed:

As for Marvel, Reed and Sue Richards are still married, still have two children, not to mention all the other kids who have joined the Future Foundation and hang out at the Baxter Building, and get to have adventures. Wolverine is running a school for Mutants, dedicated to the memory of Jean Grey; he may not be married, but he's mellowed out quite a bit since "Incredible Hulk #181", courtesy of years of character development by Chris Claremont and many other writers. Luke Cage and Mary Sue's Jessica Jones' marriage is still going strong, and they have an adorable little girl, with an adorable au' pair (Squirrel Girl!). Deadpool might still be legally married to that zombie stripper from Saskatchewan -- does anyone know if they got divorced, or if he successfully killed her? Howard the Duck is still in a committed relationship with Beverly Switzler, despite the best efforts of Doctor Bong to break them up.

Basically the Marvel Universe is a happier place to live, IMO, than the nu52 DCU. Is it dangerous? Yeah, it is. After Hope restored the potential for mutant powers to millions of people around the world by channeling the power of the Phoenix using the wisdom of K'un L'un, Mutant/Human relations are at a new low. But this time Captain America is taking a stand against anti-Mutant predjudice, Wolverine is going after the Hellfire Club's Sentinel manufacturing plants, and Cyclops and Magneto have turned a group of X-Men into the new Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. (Um, that last part sounded better in my head. :smalleek:) The Avengers are dealing with cosmic struggles, international super-terrorists, and street level crimes. Spider-Man has become more organized in his fight against crime in New York, having a squad of "Spider-Minions", and unleashing a horde of "Spider-Bots" to spy on ordinary citizens. He also shot a spree killer, earning a commendation from New York Mayor J. Jonah Jameson! (Um, actually that last part probably isn't a good thing. :smallyuk:)

Meanwhile, the nu52 Justice League can't order lunch without having an all out brawl. The property damage that they cause while fighting super-villains is ginormous, and there's no one like Damage Control to clean it up. The only competent "hero" in the nu52 is apparently Lex Luthor, who formed his own Injustice League to fight the Crime Syndicate of Earth-3 because the Justice Leage are a bunch of chumps. At least Roy knows to run away when there are overwhelming odds. :smallwink:

(Yay! I managed to steer this rant back to discussing the comic!)

[DaggerPen]

I think the only marriages that survived the nu52 were Apollo and the Midnighter and Buddy Baker and his wife (I don't remember her name :smallredface:). I don't know if Ralph and Sue Dibny were still married in this continuity (or if Sue was murdered by Ray Palmer's ex-wife, who may have never married him), nor do I know if Garth Ranzz and Imra Ardeen (aka Lightning Man and Saturn Woman of the Legion of Superheroes) are still married.

Not sure about the others, but Apollo and Midnighter's marriage did not survive the reboot. DC is officially anti-marriage. Like, literally, that was what they said after the Batwoman debacle broke - "We're not anti-same-sex marriage; we're just anti-marriage entirely."

But back to the comic! I haven't actually gotten the first two as of yet, because I am a broke college student and all, so I can't comment on the relative resolutions, but since it's probably relevant to those who have - Unisus, did you have a paper copy or a digital copy?

[DeliaP]

<long post about DC and Marvel that ends with> At least Roy knows to run away when there are overwhelming odds. :smallwink:

(Yay! I managed to steer this rant back to discussing the comic!)

Ah. OK. I'm not a DC reader (well, I used to read the Vertigo lines), just Marvel. A fact about which I now feel rather relieved!

[Sir_Leorik]

Not sure about the others, but Apollo and Midnighter's marriage did not survive the reboot. DC is officially anti-marriage. Like, literally, that was what they said after the Batwoman debacle broke - "We're not anti-same-sex marriage; we're just anti-marriage entirely."

Huh. I was sure that there were a few that survived DC's marriage culling (which is bloodier and just as annoying as the "Teen Titans: the Culling" crossover). Marvel let's their heroes have victories as well as defeats. Reed and Sue have been married for decades in real life (roughly a decade in comic time), Northstar got married recently, Herakles is technically still married to Hebe (daughter of Zeus and Hera, and cup-bearer to the Dodekatheon), and even the Black Panther didn't divorce Storm, he merely exiled her due to political reasons. (Namor was allied with the X-Men at the time that he flooded Wakanda using the Phoenix Force. Given that Wakanda is land-locked that is a really impressive feat for Namor, who usually can only flood coastal areas like New York or LA.)

I get the impression that Quesada was under pressure to terminate the Peter/MJ marriage but either due to his anti-divorce stance or some other reason he wanted the marriage annulled. Marvel heroes have gotten divorced in the past (Hank Pym and Janet van Dyne being a very prominent example) but that happened in the past under different EICs and publishers. The only Marvel character I know of to get divorced in the past few years were Deadpool and Satana in an issue of "Deadpool Team-Up". Satana had to get married to Deadpool in a Las Vegas chapel to avoid having her soul devoured by Asmodeus. She then got a quickie divorce and took half of Wade's shriveled up soul as her alimony. :smallbiggrin: But I could be wrong.


But back to the comic! I haven't actually gotten the first two as of yet, because I am a broke college student and all, so I can't comment on the relative resolutions, but since it's probably relevant to those who have - Unisus, did you have a paper copy or a digital copy?

Right, the comic! We're supposed to be discussing the comic, not the other comics it is satirizing!

I got the digital copy, but I haven't noticed any problems with resolution. I'll take a more careful look this weekend, but I think any problems need to be addressed to the editors of "Gygaxian" or to RPGDrivethru.

[DaggerPen]

Marvel let's their heroes have victories as well as defeats. Reed and Sue have been married for decades in real life (roughly a decade in comic time), Northstar got married recently, Herakles is technically still married to Hebe (daughter of Zeus and Hera, and cup-bearer to the Dodekatheon), and even the Black Panther didn't divorce Storm, he merely exiled her due to political reasons. (Namor was allied with the X-Men at the time that he flooded Wakanda using the Phoenix Force. Given that Wakanda is land-locked that is a really impressive feat for Namor, who usually can only flood coastal areas like New York or LA.)

Didio literally said "Heroes shouldn’t have happy personal lives" in an interview a few months ago. Exact quote. DC has gone all-out in its commitment to portraying an unrelentingly miserable universe.


Right, the comic! We're supposed to be discussing the comic, not the other comics it is satirizing!

I got the digital copy, but I haven't noticed any problems with resolution. I'll take a more careful look this weekend, but I think any problems need to be addressed to the editors of "Gygaxian" or to RPGDrivethru.

I mean, the resolution in my copy looks fine, but it may have been higher-resolution in other versions, I'm not sure.

[Sir_Leorik]

Didio literally said "Heroes shouldn’t have happy personal lives" in an interview a few months ago. Exact quote. DC has gone all-out in its commitment to portraying an unrelentingly miserable universe.

It's completely idiotic. To go back to Marvel for a moment, take Daredevil, a character who's been through so many up and down periods in his life. At various times the Kingpin has reduced Matt's life to nothing by targeting his friends and loved ones. But Matt had no friends, if he had no relationship with Karen Page or anyone else, if he and Foggy didn't have a successful law practice for the Kingpin's cronies to blow up, then there couldn't be a story. The hero needs to be happy if the story is about the villain targeting the hero's source of happiness.

I know we keep going back to "One More Day", but if Peter didn't have a beloved Aunt May, who had raised him since he was a little boy, after his parents were murdered by the Red Skull on a mission for the CIA, and if he wasn't married to a wonderful and supportive wife like MJ, then Peter and MJ accepting Mephisto's offer wouldn't have angered the fans. Here are three fictional characters (Peter, MJ and Aunt May) that the readers cared about, and two of them were betraying their principles to save the third. Without the "happy personal lives" of these characters, the story wouldn't be so controversial. The same holds true for "Superior Spider-Man"; Doc Ock has fooled almost everyone of Peter's friends and loved ones, along with his comrades in the Avengers. If we weren't apprehensive about what SpOck might do, would anyone read the book? (Not to mention that Dan Slott is a great writer!)

Without DC's heroes having "happy personal lives" who are DC's villains going to stuff into refridgerators? Major Force hasn't murdered anyone's great-aunt since 2010!

[Porthos]

I'm going to try to drag this back to the actual context of the comic. :smalltongue:

One of the things that was said in it was:

:elan:: Only if the kids who read our old adventures grow up to take control of the industry. Then they'll reboot us again to match their memories.

Yes, Elan. But which kids are we talking about here? :smallamused: After all, the much maligned One More Day storyline WAS because 'kids rebooted the industry to match their memories'. In this case, the 'kid' being Joe Quesada, who wanted Spiderman to be more like it was when he was a kid (at least that's the story I heard).

More generally, once fandom reaches a certain size or age "what it wants" can be entirely incompatible with itself. Take Batman. A large part of what happened to the character in the 80s/90s when it was reinvented were people entering the industry 'taking back' the character to its roots. But what about the people who grew up on/enjoyed the Silver Age Batman? What happens should they ever take over?

NOTE::: I'm staying out of the whole commentary about the alleged Grimdark nature of the current DC because I honestly haven't a clue on it, having stopped reading those comics ages ago. I'm more commenting on the general point of 'kids taking over' being a bit more complex than Elan realizes. :smallwink:

In fact, when I read Elan's line I didn't take it as a specific indictment of DC proper (though knowing how much Rich likes certain DC characters, perhaps I should) and instead took it as a commentary of reboots in general. In the movie industry alone, franchises are rebooted with some degree of regularity. Star Trek and Spider-Man are two of the more notable recent examples that have sparked controversy within fanbases. But even things like the Dukes of Hazzard remake launched controversy.

Then there are TV reboots like BSG. "I believe I have changed gender" indeed. :smallamused:

=====

Now maybe Rich did mean this to be a knowing wink/jab at DC. OTOH, perhaps, to paraphrase the words of Tolkien, maybe this strip was applicable, not allegorical. :smallwink:


I mean, the resolution in my copy looks fine, but it may have been higher-resolution in other versions, I'm not sure.

The resolution of the PDFs are great, IMO. I think Unisus might have been talking about the print version. If so, there it looks a little 'off', I think, because of the non-glossy nature of the paper.

It's not bad, really, just not quite what I am used to. :smallsmile:

[BlackDragonKing]

It's completely idiotic. To go back to Marvel for a moment, take Daredevil, a character who's been through so many up and down periods in his life. At various times the Kingpin has reduced Matt's life to nothing by targeting his friends and loved ones. But Matt had no friends, if he had no relationship with Karen Page or anyone else, if he and Foggy didn't have a successful law practice for the Kingpin's cronies to blow up, then there couldn't be a story. The hero needs to be happy if the story is about the villain targeting the hero's source of happiness.

I know we keep going back to "One More Day", but if Peter didn't have a beloved Aunt May, who had raised him since he was a little boy, after his parents were murdered by the Red Skull on a mission for the CIA, and if he wasn't married to a wonderful and supportive wife like MJ, then Peter and MJ accepting Mephisto's offer wouldn't have angered the fans. Here are three fictional characters (Peter, MJ and Aunt May) that the readers cared about, and two of them were betraying their principles to save the third. Without the "happy personal lives" of these characters, the story wouldn't be so controversial. The same holds true for "Superior Spider-Man"; Doc Ock has fooled almost everyone of Peter's friends and loved ones, along with his comrades in the Avengers. If we weren't apprehensive about what SpOck might do, would anyone read the book? (Not to mention that Dan Slott is a great writer!)

Without DC's heroes having "happy personal lives" who are DC's villains going to stuff into refridgerators? Major Force hasn't murdered anyone's great-aunt since 2010!

I really haven't been happy with the whole Superior Spider-Man thing. It seems like a lot of spidey's closest friends are conveniently away and the folks who could SEE Otto sitting in his head have conveniently not come to call or found it suspicious that Spock avoids anyone who can read minds like the plague these days. Otto has Peter's memories (some of them, anyway, but his decision to flush the rest to kill the echo-pete hasn't had any major consequences so far), but he doesn't ACT like Peter. Hell, he barely TALKS like Peter, and Spider-Man has been wildly out-of-character for everyone that knows him with no question beyond "maybe he was a Skrull?" raised.

I just find it very odd that the Avengers don't find anything unusual that a guy whose motto for a while was "NO ONE DIES" (even Massacre and his ilk) suddenly starts brutalizing villains much weaker than he is, dismembering his enemies, frigging executes a villain he's defeated, and then hideously tortures another of his enemies and leaves what's left of him as a warning to others.

I don't really see why nobody been finding it odd why Peter Parker is suddenly an extremely aggressive, egocentric douche with no sense of humor or how Spider-Man switched from one of the more morally upright heroes in the Marvel universe to a goddamn psychopath after Doc Ock died. If this thing with Venom doesn't blow SpOck's cover by showing everyone his true colors, I don't know what will.

[The Giant]

Regarding the resolution issue, it should be the same resolution as always, but the font is awful—small and dark and hard to read. I've been experimenting with fonts in the magazine because I think it's time to put Comic Sans to pasture, but this one looked good on screen but awful in print. I'll switch it again next issue.


Why does this thing have zero publicity? It's like Rich is ashamed of it.

The main reason I don't promote it is that they never tell me when it's coming out. I finish it months ahead of time, and one day, I see a thread on my message board of people talking about my strip, and by that point, it's been out for weeks and I have more pressing things to talk about. It was similar to the launch—they swore me to secrecy, and then one day I suddenly found out that the story broke weeks prior and the magazine was already on sale. :smallconfused:

I also was really uncertain about where and how to point people to the site to buy the issues, because up until recently they only sold subscriptions, not individual issues. I see that's fixed now, so maybe if they let me know when issue #4 is coming out in advance, I can promote in for them.

[SavageWombat]

I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't the only one who saw the absolutely vicious digs at the comic industry in this strip.

So that's a "yes" then.

[Taelas]

The resolution really is much lower in the PDF, at least.

The two first issues were around 50 megs in size, whereas the third is around 25.

[The Giant]

The resolution really is much lower in the PDF, at least.

The two first issues were around 50 megs in size, whereas the third is around 25.

Huh. I don't have any of the PDFs, I was only going on the printed versions. I don't suppose anyone would be willing to open issues 2 and 3 side-by-side at the same magnification and take a screen shot?

[Porthos]

Huh. I don't have any of the PDFs, I was only going on the printed versions. I don't suppose anyone would be willing to open issues 2 and 3 side-by-side at the same magnification and take a screen shot?

It's your copyright, so sure. :smalltongue:

Spoilered (one panel from each comic):
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/BuckGodot/GOOTS2_Panel01_zps447095ec.png~original
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/BuckGodot/GOOTS3_Panel01_zpsc01efe32.png~original

Not sure if that really helps since any dpi is going to be set because of the screenshot I took and not because of the inherent quality of the comic. Though as I look at it, the one from Issue 3 does seem to be softer.

For background purposes, when issue #1 first went out, Gygax Magazine first sent out a lower quality PDF but then after feedback sent out a higher quality one for Issue 1 and then later for Issue 2. As I check, Issue 3 is back to the lower quality resolution (≈25 meg versus ≈ 50 meg). No idea why, though.

[The Giant]

Wow, that is really noticeable. Ugh.

I have no idea why they would try to switch back to the lower resolution. It's not like it costs them anything. If I had to guess, I would guess someone forgot and used the wrong PDF export profile. But who knows.

[Porthos]

If I had to guess, I would guess someone forgot and used the wrong PDF export profile. But who knows.

Probably. It got sent to DriveThruRPG after the print copies started arriving in people's mailboxes, which was unsual for them.

I just fired off an email to TSR Customer Service to let them know about this. They've been pretty good about addressing this sort of stuff, so maybe they'll be able to address it without it costing them too much money on the DriveThruRPG end (I have zero idea how it works over at DriveThruRPG, so I don't know if they're gonna have to pay for people re-downloading their product or not).

Given it's the weekend and the Holiday Season, I don't know when my email will actually be looked at, though.

I'll update this thread when/if I get any news from them. :smallsmile:

[Dr. Gamera]

I finish it months ahead of time, and one day, I see a thread on my message board of people talking about my strip, and by that point, it's been out for weeks and I have more pressing things to talk about.

I promise that I've started the three Gygax magazine threads on the same day as I've first received the three Gygax magazine issues, in whatever format I've received them in first. However, there's obviously no way for me to tell if other people are receiving their issues well before I do -- and in the case of the first issue, other people certainly did, as I didn't attend the unboxing in NYC or anything.

[Sir_Leorik]

I'm going to try to drag this back to the actual context of the comic. :smalltongue:

One of the things that was said in it was:

:elan:: Only if the kids who read our old adventures grow up to take control of the industry. Then they'll reboot us again to match their memories.

Yes, Elan. But which kids are we talking about here?

***cough***Geoff Johns***cough***

Johns is the most guilty of retconning the nu52 universe to match the pre-Crisis universe (after a fashion), which is weird because some of his best pre-nu52 stories have been retconned out of existence in the process, including his entire run on "Teen Titans" and "Justice Society of America".


:smallamused: After all, the much maligned One More Day storyline WAS because 'kids rebooted the industry to match their memories'. In this case, the 'kid' being Joe Quesada, who wanted Spiderman to be more like it was when he was a kid (at least that's the story I heard).

I think that the publishers were urging that Peter and MJ break up. They'd already been separated before during Straczynski's run, and then got back together (thanks to some timely relationship advice Captain America gave them, after he and Spidey saved Doctor Doom from separatist assassins at Denver International Airport). Quesada allegedly has strong qualms about divorce and wanted their marriage annulled. Straczynski was a willing co-conspirator, but something happened in the end and JMS ended up taking his name off the last issue of "One More Day".


More generally, once fandom reaches a certain size or age "what it wants" can be entirely incompatible with itself. Take Batman. A large part of what happened to the character in the 80s/90s when it was reinvented were people entering the industry 'taking back' the character to its roots. But what about the people who grew up on/enjoyed the Silver Age Batman? What happens should they ever take over?

NOTE::: I'm staying out of the whole commentary about the alleged Grimdark nature of the current DC because I honestly haven't a clue on it, having stopped reading those comics ages ago. I'm more commenting on the general point of 'kids taking over' being a bit more complex than Elan realizes. :smallwink:

Batman has had so many different incarnations since 1939 that there should be no problem with having Batman stalk gun smugglers one issue, match wits with The Joker the next issue, and then fight space pirates with Green Lantern and Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes) in an issue of "Brave & the Bold". What happened to Batman in the 1980's and 1990's can be summed up in two words: "Frank Miller". The success of "The Dark Knight Returns" led to Miller being given free reign to write Batman's post-Crisis origin in "Batman: Year One".

And from then on the fans demanded a darker more brutal, Batman, more like the Punisher than like Superman. So the Bat-Editors decided to say "You want a Batman who's more like the Punisher? We'll give you one, and hope you choke on him!" Hence "KnightFall", where Bane deduces Bruce's secret, breaks down Batman's resolve, and then breaks into Wayne Manor, beats Alfred and then breaks Bruce's back. Bruce, in a moment of weakness, turns to deprogrammed religious assassin Jean-Paul Valley to be the new Batman; Jean-Paul reveals that the deprogramming didn't work. Bruce is healed by getting to "know" a psychic healer, and trains with Lady Shiva in order to reclaim the mantle of Batman from Jean-Paul, who is now wearing Bat-armor, complete with Optimus Prime Bat-Helmet. Bruce drives the nutjob deep into the Batcave, forcing Jean-Paul to remove his armor, until Jean-Paul's huddling on the floor, surrounded by bats, Batman's voice echoing through the cave.

"Knight-Fall", "Knights-Quest" and "Knights End" were all conceived of and mostly written by Denny O'Neill who'd been writing Batman since the late 1960's. The Batman fans who took over the character and did a reboot at the time weren't comic book creators, but Bruce Timm, creator of "Batman: the Animated Series", along with Paul Dini and various writers, artists, voice talents (including Mark Hammill, a major comic fan who became voice of The Joker) on the show.


I really haven't been happy with the whole Superior Spider-Man thing. It seems like a lot of spidey's closest friends are conveniently away and the folks who could SEE Otto sitting in his head have conveniently not come to call or found it suspicious that Spock avoids anyone who can read minds like the plague these days. Otto has Peter's memories (some of them, anyway, but his decision to flush the rest to kill the echo-pete hasn't had any major consequences so far), but he doesn't ACT like Peter. Hell, he barely TALKS like Peter, and Spider-Man has been wildly out-of-character for everyone that knows him with no question beyond "maybe he was a Skrull?" raised.

I just find it very odd that the Avengers don't find anything unusual that a guy whose motto for a while was "NO ONE DIES" (even Massacre and his ilk) suddenly starts brutalizing villains much weaker than he is, dismembering his enemies, frigging executes a villain he's defeated, and then hideously tortures another of his enemies and leaves what's left of him as a warning to others.

I don't really see why nobody been finding it odd why Peter Parker is suddenly an extremely aggressive, egocentric douche with no sense of humor or how Spider-Man switched from one of the more morally upright heroes in the Marvel universe to a goddamn psychopath after Doc Ock died. If this thing with Venom doesn't blow SpOck's cover by showing everyone his true colors, I don't know what will.

The Avengers did find it unusual and called SpOck on it, demanding he submit to a complete physical. Otto was insulted at the insinuation (boy does he have an ego!), and the Avengers (with help from Ghost!Peter) took Otto down. They ran tests which confirmed that Spider-Man wasn't a Skrull, replaced by a Space Phantom, under the control of the Purple Man, the Controller or the Puppet Master. The Avengers put Spider-Man on probation and warned him to watch it. The Black Widow told SpOck that she suspected his change in behavior was a result of the death of Silver Sable during "Ends of the Earth". So the Avengers didn't completely drop the ball, but none of the Avengers who tested SpOck were scientists (neither Iron Man nor Giant Man were present, which SpOck lampshades).

[Armitage]

I also was really uncertain about where and how to point people to the site to buy the issues, because up until recently they only sold subscriptions, not individual issues.
I am a bit surprised about this statement.
I bought the print version of #1 individually, and since #2 have bought digital versions of all issues individually.
So in my experience, there never was a time when Gygax Magazine was only available on a subscription basis.