Dragonwrought Kobold Dragonfire Adept Build Help

[M@XIM]

SO.. a lot of my party is dying and though I don't foresee my beloved OP druid dying anytime soon, I've been working on a backup/swap out character for the future. At first it was just an inside joke, but I'm 99% through putting him together with LVL7 specs.

So this build has a lot of fun and flavor, but there are a few things I'm confused about. I've seen other people list their Draconic Heritage without actually having this feat, but I haven't been able to pinpoint how they're receiving a specific
color dragon skill/special abilities.
1.Is there something in DWK or DFA that gives you this? and what are the details?

2. I'm already aware of the OP Venerable DWK stat boost etc. and I've set him up to receive these because my rolls weren't that great to begin with, but what else is there to this?

3. Flying.. I search for DWK and I see this creature with Wings yet.. it looks like you need feats to fly. This seems odd to me. Is this really the case and if so, what's the best method of obtaining basic flight?

Lastly (for now), I've taken several metabreath feats (using Power Surge) and I'm concerned about the rounds I won't be able to use a breath attack (maximize breath =4 rounds). The invocations aren't very offensive and I won't have a lot of gold to buy wands. What can I do for the rounds in which I can't attack with breath attacks? Any strategies? I can't invest in more feats atm so trying to decrease the waiting period isn't an immediate option. I'd like to figure out something I can do that keeps the offensive pressure on even when I can't attach with breath attacks.

Current Feats (2flaws): Dragonwrought and Dragontouched, Powersurge, Entangling Exhalation,Maximize Breath, and Exhaled Barrier (chose this last one instead of the normal metabreath combos because I can use it more without incurring time delays).

Thanks for your help ahead of time!

[Ruethgar]

1. A dragon blooded sorcerer can get Draconic Heritage for the cost of their familiar.

2. It may be argued that since the Ebboron archetypes do not specify that only true dragons may take a sovereign archetype, you may take one as a DWK. However, it is strongly implied that you need to be a true dragon and sane DMs would not allow such abuse.

3. The easiest way to fly is to throw Dragonborn on. You should also be a desert kobold with the arctic template so your Con isn't bad for a DFA.

4. You should try and shuffle your web enhanced racial feats to get more metabreath(also war wyrm feats if you are allowed an archetype). There are also third party metabreathish feats Quick Breath, Rapid Breath, Improved Quick Breath gets your bonus duration cut by half then subtract two. So if you have +6 rounds on a breath it goes down to a 1 round delay.

[lunar2]

why did you take dragontouched? it is useless to you, as you are already a dragon type creature.

[M@XIM]

1. A dragon blooded sorcerer can get Draconic Heritage for the cost of their familiar.

2. It may be argued that since the Ebboron archetypes do not specify that only true dragons may take a sovereign archetype, you may take one as a DWK. However, it is strongly implied that you need to be a true dragon and sane DMs would not allow such abuse.

3. The easiest way to fly is to throw Dragonborn on. You should also be a desert kobold with the arctic template so your Con isn't bad for a DFA.

4. You should try and shuffle your web enhanced racial feats to get more metabreath(also war wyrm feats if you are allowed an archetype). There are also third party metabreathish feats Quick Breath, Rapid Breath, Improved Quick Breath gets your bonus duration cut by half then subtract two. So if you have +6 rounds on a breath it goes down to a 1 round delay.

1. So what qualifies it as a Dragon Blooded Sorc? The DWK or DFA?
2. What do you get from the Archetypes? (if allowed)
3.I am a DK and I did decently with my rolls so I don't think the Arctic Temp is necessary (I can keep my CHA). I have been interested in the Dragoborn Template mostly because of the extra breath attack, but I have no clue how it works. How do you apply it? What do you gain/lose/changes?

4. Would be quite helpful if possible. (Thanks for your help)

[M@XIM]

why did you take dragontouched? it is useless to you, as you are already a dragon type creature.

It's a free feat for DFA (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=2)
"Benefit
You gain the dragonblood subtype. You gain 1 hit point, a +1 bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks, and a +1 bonus on saving throws against paralysis and sleep effects. In addition, you can select draconic feats as if you were a sorcerer of your character level."

[kpumphre]

You have two ways to get flight. 1 Draconic flight, and 2nd Humanoid shape. My dm ruled that with either I could take flyby attack. And then use entangling breath, and the other round Slow or sickening which ever you prefer.

That's what you need no offense your others aren't really worth it. I prefer HUmanoid shape if your dm will allow you to use your breath weapon with it.

Your feats aren't that great.
3rd level Entangling Exhalation, Great
1st Dragonwrought(Understand)
and Dragontouched,
Flaw 1Powersurge, (Good choice depending which one you used)
Maximize Breath, Waste
Exhaled Barrier Bigger waste

Flaw 2 (take a different metabreath here)
6th level Flyby Feat

2nd level Cone of cold
5th level, Sickening will last longer, also have the choice of slow.

Invocations:
Least:
Identify and detect magic
Protection from your breath weapon

lesser
Humanoid shape (highly recommended)
Draconic flight
Frightful presence (does work with your breath weapon)


Hope those suggestions help

[Ruethgar]

The dragon blooded sorcerer substitution level is an eligible ACF for any dragon blooded creature that has taken a sorcerer level, including dragons, kobolds, silverbrow humans, forestlord elves, glimmerskin gnomes etc.

Most of the archetypes are mediocre. Loredrake gives you two free sorcerer spellcasting levels and War Wyrm grants fighter bonus feats every 4th level as I recall. The next best one I believe is the Ebberon Blooded dragon which allows druid spells as arcane.

You should read Races of the Dragon for the details on dragonborn. You may only choose one ability out of wings, breath or sight so you would either get the free flight or the extra breath. Also note that dragonborn removes almost all of your racial abilities which, for a normal kobold, doesn't really matter. However, for a web enhanced kobold, they would lose their shufflable feats. Arctic is still a good template for DFA, your invocations may be based off of charisma, but you can easily go without it and focus more on optimizing your breath weapon.

[M@XIM]

You have two ways to get flight. 1 Draconic flight, and 2nd Humanoid shape. My dm ruled that with either I could take flyby attack. And then use entangling breath, and the other round Slow or sickening which ever you prefer.

That's what you need no offense your others aren't really worth it. I prefer HUmanoid shape if your dm will allow you to use your breath weapon with it.

Your feats aren't that great.
3rd level Entangling Exhalation, Great
1st Dragonwrought(Understand)
and Dragontouched,
Flaw 1Powersurge, (Good choice depending which one you used)
Maximize Breath, Waste
Exhaled Barrier Bigger waste

Flaw 2 (take a different metabreath here)
6th level Flyby Feat

2nd level Cone of cold
5th level, Sickening will last longer, also have the choice of slow.

Invocations:
Least:
Identify and detect magic
Protection from your breath weapon

lesser
Humanoid shape (highly recommended)
Draconic flight
Frightful presence (does work with your breath weapon)


Hope those suggestions help

Thanks,

For 5th level you mean Weakening Breath right? (Sickening is a Level2 and only lasts two rounds.

For flight, if I use Humanoid Shape to change into a Raptoran, I won't need Draconic Flight or another Flight Feat right? So I could simply change into a raptoran and use Flyby attacks?

For Invocations I was thinking:
Least
Draconic Knowledge or Magic Insight (We have a Wizard who 'sees' magic so the latter is only useful for identifying magical items. Though it'd go great with Use Magic Device.
and Endure Exposure- I mean really this one is obviously mandatory

Lesser-
Humanoid Shape

I believe Level7 is Max 3 Invocations known

I like your suggestion for feats, but I'm not sure. It seems like choosing between battlefield control which is probably more effective for my party and outright blasting stuff (which is fun).

I liked Exhaled Barrier (even more if I combo with Flyby) as I could literally wall in my opponents and they'd walked into 5d6 (DragonSpiritCincture) walls that wouldn't affect my party. I could use multiple walls and control the battlefield.

Maximize is something I both love and hate. If I know I just need to one shot something it's great. I don't have to worry about making a bad roll. However, in a drawn out fight, not using my breath attach for several rounds is lame.

If I didn't take these, what 'other' metabreath would I want? (replacing something with Flyby attack, that leaves one open slot)

[M@XIM]

The dragon blooded sorcerer substitution level is an eligible ACF for any dragon blooded creature that has taken a sorcerer level, including dragons, kobolds, silverbrow humans, forestlord elves, glimmerskin gnomes etc.

Most of the archetypes are mediocre. Loredrake gives you two free sorcerer spellcasting levels and War Wyrm grants fighter bonus feats every 4th level as I recall. The next best one I believe is the Ebberon Blooded dragon which allows druid spells as arcane.

You should read Races of the Dragon for the details on dragonborn. You may only choose one ability out of wings, breath or sight so you would either get the free flight or the extra breath. Also note that dragonborn removes almost all of your racial abilities which, for a normal kobold, doesn't really matter. However, for a web enhanced kobold, they would lose their shufflable feats. Arctic is still a good template for DFA, your invocations may be based off of charisma, but you can easily go without it and focus more on optimizing your breath weapon.

Okay so I've been reading Races of Dragon and I like the idea of Draconic Heritage (especially if I could get their spells (Shadow Dragon-Dimensional Door :)). However, the part that I'm lost at. You say a Sorcerer can trade their familiar for it. So I'd have to multiclass at least 1 level to do this right? I'm not missing something about DWK or DFA's being considered sorcerers in some way right?

Where can I read about Archetypes? I really don't understand this.

[Red Fel]

Okay so I've been reading Races of Dragon and I like the idea of Draconic Heritage (especially if I could get their spells (Shadow Dragon-Dimensional Door :)). However, the part that I'm lost at. You say a Sorcerer can trade their familiar for it. So I'd have to multiclass at least 1 level to do this right? I'm not missing something about DWK or DFA's being considered sorcerers in some way right?

Where can I read about Archetypes? I really don't understand this.

With regard to Draconic Heritage, yes, it's a Sorcerer ACF, so you have to take Sorcerer to get it. Other classes generally don't "count" for ACFs, as ACFs are specific to a class.

With regard to Archetypes, don't worry about it. It's debatable whether a DWK is a True Dragon for archetype purposes anyway, and as mentioned, no sane DM would allow an Archetype at his table. I think they're from Dragons of Eberron.

[Ruethgar]

You also wouldn't get the spells associated with the draconic heritage without draconic legacy and the spellcasting class level to cast them. Dragonfire Adepts are not spellcasters and would not be able to cast those spells. So it is pretty much limited to sorcerer on the spells, not DFA.

[kpumphre]

XIm

Not sure, My gm never allowed them so I didn't bother to look in to if for metabreath feats.

It mostly depends on what your gm allows. Like he might not allow flight with the change shape, on the other hand he might. Also make sure you can keep your breath attack weapon.

Feat wise you have more than I ever got with the flaws you have. But battlefield control was fun. I hit more than anyone else never had to roll except damage and I killed 3/4ths of the villains we fought with my +1d6 damage every round. I was the real heavy weight in the group with my ac of 23 and 44hp at 5th level.

[M@XIM]

Also note that dragonborn removes almost all of your racial abilities which, for a normal kobold, doesn't really matter. However, for a web enhanced kobold, they would lose their shufflable feats. Arctic is still a good template for DFA, your invocations may be based off of charisma, but you can easily go without it and focus more on optimizing your breath weapon.

Switching my focus back to Dragonborn heh- What do you mean Shuffable Feats? I tried looking it up, but no luck.

[kpumphre]

Desert Kobold provides Helpful stats where you need them. I liked being able to count as tiny size with mine. It does give you good range on shapes to change between.

[Osiris]

... what's the best method of obtaining basic flight?...
If you're a Kobold, flying is cheap and easy. In the Magic Item Compendium (hopefully you have this) you can get an Amber Amulet of Vermin, get the giant bee one. For one minute, you have a bee, which is medium size and flies really fast.:smallsmile:
Also, it's funny to picture a Kobold on a giant flying bug

[Invader]

It should also be noted that many people say you can't take metabreath feats as a DFA unless you also take the breath weapon option with dragon born because of the prereqs for them are written in which case you can apply meta breath to your dragon born breath weapon but not your DFA one.

[M@XIM]

If you're a Kobold, flying is cheap and easy. In the Magic Item Compendium (hopefully you have this) you can get an Amber Amulet of Vermin, get the giant bee one. For one minute, you have a bee, which is medium size and flies really fast.:smallsmile:
Also, it's funny to picture a Kobold on a giant flying bug

While that sounds awesome, wouldn't that be a one time item?



It should also be noted that many people say you can't take metabreath feats as a DFA unless you also take the breath weapon option with dragon born because of the prereqs for them are written in which case you can apply meta breath to your dragon born breath weapon but not your DFA one.

The Dragonborn Breath weapon route is nice which is why I'm considering it as well, but I don't need it for the meta breath feats as I have PowerSurge. I wish I should get both Flight and Breath from Dragonborn. Then it would be a no brainer.

[Ruethgar]

It should also be noted that many people say you can't take metabreath feats as a DFA unless you also take the breath weapon option with dragon born because of the prereqs for them are written in which case you can apply meta breath to your dragon born breath weapon but not your DFA one.

He is taking power surge to get around the DFA breath not being metabreathable.

Sufflable feats refers primarily to Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos(there is a similar psionic ability but I've not read it) which allows you to change your feats to whatever you can qualify for, including changing your racial web enhanced weapon proficiency feats.

Also note that the Dragonfire Adept's most powerful breath weapon requires you to be non-good which does not mesh as a dragonborn.

Edit: If you do not mind third party, there are the Wing Gliders from Quintessential Kobold. Tumble check 15 to go up 10ft as a move action or to glide down and out some other amount that I can't recall at this time. It isn't actually flight, but it is close, and you don't need your hands for breathing fire anyway. Do note however, that the Quintessential are quite powerful. The equipment would probably be ok, but I wouldn't stray outside of that.

[Invader]

How does powersurge help, I'm not familiar with it and the only thing I can find doesn't look like it would help so I'm not sure if I found the right version.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Also note that the Dragonfire Adept's most powerful breath weapon requires you to be non-good which does not mesh as a dragonborn.

Note that the Five-fold Breath of Tiamat is only available at high (level 15+) levels, so that may not matter at all in certain games.

[Ruethgar]

Powersurge adds a one round delay to a supernatural ability, in this case the Dragonfire Adept's breath weapon. This makes the breath weapon eligible for metabreath feats as the only requisite is that you have a breath weapon measured in rounds to be able to take metabreath feats.

[M@XIM]

He is taking power surge to get around the DFA breath not being metabreathable.

Sufflable feats refers primarily to Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos(there is a similar psionic ability but I've not read it) which allows you to change your feats to whatever you can qualify for, including changing your racial web enhanced weapon proficiency feats.



However, for a web enhanced kobold, they would lose their shufflable feats. Arctic is still a good template for DFA, your invocations may be based off of charisma, but you can easily go without it and focus more on optimizing your breath weapon.

So as a Desert Kobold I somehow have Shuffable Feats? Confused ;/
Trying to properly weigh the Dragonborn route.

[M@XIM]

Note that the Five-fold Breath of Tiamat is only available at high (level 15+) levels, so that may not matter at all in certain games.

Even though it's a great class.. this part is really annoying. You'd think there would be an equivalent within the class so you could remain Neutral or Good etc.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Even though it's a great class.. this part is really annoying. You'd think there would be an equivalent within the class so you could remain Neutral or Good etc.

Well, there is the Discorporating Breath of Bahamut as it's Good 'equivalent', but yeah, Neutral DFAs get shafted. Maybe somebody could homebrew some XXX Breath of Sardior ability?

[Ruethgar]

The kobold web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) give all kobolds two shufflable feats, Martial Weapon Proficiency for the heavy and light pick. Arguably this should not be applied to desert kobolds as they don't mine, but there is no such distinction made in the web enhancement.

A neutral DFA can still do the five fold breath, it just hurts a lot more than if you were evil.