[3.5] Mind Rape Reversal

[Captainspork]

So I found an old post in the archives that asking about reversing the mind rape spell (BOVD for those who aren't aware), where the question was posed "how can it be reversed? ". It seems to me the spell can basically do close to do whatever you want, alter the victim's mind or destroy it entirely. Pretty frickin evil.

What I'm wondering is how this could be reversed. I'd assume wish could reverse it. Is that the only method of reversing its effects?

[Viros]

Mindrape is from BoVD. The spell in that book lists Miracle and Wish as the only ways to reverse it.

The updated version is called Programmed Amnesia, and can be found in Complete Arcane and Spell Compendium. This version allows you to use Greater Restoration in addition to Miracle and Wish.

[Morcleon]

Mindrape is from BoVD. The spell in that book lists Miracle and Wish as the only ways to reverse it.

The updated version is called Programmed Amnesia, and can be found in Complete Arcane and Spell Compendium. This version allows you to use Greater Restoration in addition to Miracle and Wish.

Yep. Miracle and Wish.

Also, I treat Programmed Amnesia as a separate spell, as it has a longer casting time and is more an overlay (being Permanent rather than instantaneous) than a rewrite. Also, it doesn't have the [Evil] tag.

[HaikenEdge]

I assume you can use Mindrape to reverse Mindrape, by using the second Mindrape to revert the changes made during the first Mindrape.

[SoraWolf7]

I assume you can use Mindrape to reverse Mindrape, by using the second Mindrape to revert the changes made during the first Mindrape.

Wouldn't that require you to know what the first Mindrape altered, thus needing for a mind reading or Mindrape of the mind-rapist?

[otakumick]

I would imagine Psychic Chirurgery should work... but that would be RACSD rather than RAW... but there isn't always a RAW answer for how Psionics and Magic interact.

[HaikenEdge]

Wouldn't that require you to know what the first Mindrape altered, thus needing for a mind reading or Mindrape of the mind-rapist?

You never said it wasn't you who cast the first Mindrape; I was speaking in theoretical terms.

[LordChaos13]

Wouldn't that require you to know what the first Mindrape altered, thus needing for a mind reading or Mindrape of the mind-rapist?

Im fairly sure you'd get the memory of the event in question and thus jsut do the opposite of that.
If not, well a close approximation will do. And so what if it has a few side-effects. Now if you'll excuse me the mindrape victims I helped made me a nice feast :smallwink::smalltongue:

[Slipperychicken]

What I'm wondering is how this could be reversed.

Try reading the spell description before you ask us to do it for you.


The caster enters the mind of a creature, learning everything that creature knows.
The caster can erase or add memories as she sees fit and alter emotions, opinions, and even alignment.
When the caster is done, she can leave the creature insane (as described in the insanity spell) or seemingly unaffected, without any memory of the intrusion.
Severe changes to personality and changes to alignment can be corrected by a break enchantment spell (although an atonement spell might be needed as well, depending on circumstances).
Alterations to memories and subtler thoughts can be restored only through use of a miracle or wish.

See? Was that so hard? All you have to do is read ~2 paragraphs worth of text to find the answer.


In summary:
Break Enchantment fixes personality/alignment.
Atonement might be needed in some undefined circumstance
Wish/Miracle fixes memories and "subtler thoughts", whatever that means.

[nedz]

Wouldn't that require you to know what the first Mindrape altered, thus needing for a mind reading or Mindrape of the mind-rapist?

Ooh, a mind rape triangle.

[Captainspork]

Shoot I forgot the interactions of all spells are written in the spell description. And nothing's been published since that was written. My fault.

Thanks guys for the quick responses, appreciate it and happy holidays should you be celebrating. Meant to include that but I forgot in the initial post.

[Hamste]

There is also the option of a contingent mind rape on yourself to restore your memories

[HaikenEdge]

But wouldn't that set you back by removing some of your memories? I mean, you can't predict what you'll know, so... This is all very confusing.

[demigodus]

Thought Bottles maybe?

I'm also now imagining someone pulling off a tripe mind-rape, so that the first wish/miracle merely sets the personality to what the second mind-rape created...

[Psyren]

Note that Miracle could do this even if the spell didn't explicitly say so - There are no hard limits on what Miracle can do, especially used by a deity.

[Hamste]

But wouldn't that set you back by removing some of your memories? I mean, you can't predict what you'll know, so... This is all very confusing.

It would get rid of some of your memories but atleast they are your memories.

[Psyren]

I'm also now imagining someone pulling off a tripe mind-rape, so that the first wish/miracle merely sets the personality to what the second mind-rape created...

That depends on the wording of your Wish/Miracle. Having established that undoing mindrape is within Wish's power, you can word the Wish such that it undoes all mindrapes the target may have undergone, or simply that it restores the target to their unmodified personality and memories.

[Uncle Pine]

And here I thought you were asking for ways to turn Mind Rape back to the caster and making he think he succesfully mindraped you and was totally going to suggest a spellblade!

But no, you can only revert all of Mind Rape's effects with the listed spells. But you could try to "restore" someone's memory by mindraping him and adding random memories that could've been removed. :smallwink:

[Scow2]

There is also the option of a contingent mind rape on yourself to restore your memories
What memories?

Trying to use Mindrape to 'restore' damage from a previous mindrape has a result like this:
: - Pre-Mindrape - : - : - Mindrape Damage - : - : - Mindrape Attempt to Restore
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/382/829/e81.jpg

[HaikenEdge]

What memories?

Trying to use Mindrape to 'restore' damage from a previous mindrape has a result like this:
: - Pre-Mindrape - : - : - Mindrape Damage - : - : - Mindrape Attempt to Restore
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/382/829/e81.jpg

Well, couldn't you have it reset to your memories and persona at the moment you set up the contingency? I mean, since it only costs 1 action and no XP component, and contingency doesn't have an expensive material component, just a focus component, I imagine a wizard could set a contingent mindrape every 12 or so hours, using their current memories as the template?

Which begs the question, can you set up a Contingent Mindrape at the beginning of the day to go off when you run out of spells to revert your memories to the moment you cast the the contingent, and when it does go off, do you get your spells back (albeit without your previous memories)?

[Scow2]

Also - mindrape, regardless of its actual long-term effects, is a horrific and traumatizing experience to go through. It's in the name.

[HaikenEdge]

Also - mindrape, regardless of its actual long-term effects, is a horrific and traumatizing experience to go through. It's in the name.

Is it really?


When the caster is done, she can leave the creature insane (as described in the insanity spell) or seemingly unaffected, without any memory of the intrusion.

That's right. You could mindrape somebody and they'd never even know it. This is unlike Sanctified The Wicked, an ostensibly good spell that traps its victim's soul in a gem and is forced reconsider to all the horrible things its done for a year, and exits the experience remembering the entire ordeal.

[Morcleon]

Also - mindrape, regardless of its actual long-term effects, is a horrific and traumatizing experience to go through. It's in the name.


Is it really?

That's right. You could mindrape somebody and they'd never even know it. This is unlike Sanctified The Wicked, an ostensibly good spell that traps its victim's soul in a gem and is forced reconsider to all the horrible things its done for a year, and exits the experience remembering the entire ordeal.

Indeed. You could also use it for benign purposes. Removing mental disorders, clearing away traumatic memories, etc.

[Particle_Man]

And here I thought you were asking for ways to turn Mind Rape back to the caster and making he think he succesfully mindraped you and was totally going to suggest a spellblade!

Yeah, I was going to suggest Spell Turning. :smallsmile: