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Piccamo
2007-01-13, 04:19 PM
First, a bit about this campaign. This creature is for a custom campaign as a playable race (LA 0). This campaign will have the same general power level as Greyhawk or Eberron, though probably less magical. The only form of magic in this world is Pact Magic (from Tome of Magic) and there are no multiclassing penalties or favored classes. I do not have all the languages for the campaign decided yet, hence the bonus languages merely being a question mark. Please tell me what you think of the race and if you think the racial bonuses are of the right power. Thanks for the input.
Hobgoblins
Personality: Hobgoblins love to be mischievous. If there is an opportunity to have fun at someone else's expense, they will take it. Even when down on their luck and requiring the help of another, they will see if they can poke a little fun before working their way out of it. While some take this behavior to mean that they hate outsiders, this is most certainly not the case.
Hobgoblins love new faces and meeting people. They are very friendly, though most consider them to be quite ugly. While they will cause others some mischief, they will also help those are in dire need. Hobgoblins are usually perceptive enough to realize someone else's danger.
The one worst insult that can be given to a hobgoblin is a thank you. They may complain and moan about being thankless or under-appreciated, but the moment that a person actually shows that appreciation the friendship is off and an adversary may have been created. Hobgoblins often consider whatever they are doing to be the most beneficial to others and they often believe that this is undermined by those showing appreciation.
It is said that hobgoblins have 2 great loves in this world: mushrooms and fire. Any sort of mushroom is a great delicacy to the hobgoblins and is far more precious than gold to them. Fire fascinates these folk to no end and it is not unheard of for them to stay staring at the flames of a campfire for half the night. While horses are frightened by hobgoblins, the small creatures often love to try to find a way to mount the beasts. Some stories mention hobgoblins using all their resources to try and mount a horse, often to no avail.
Physical Description: Hobgoblins stand about 2 to 3 feet tall and weigh 25 to 40 pounds. Their skin ranges from dark blue to dark green, their hair is generally dark brown or black, and their eyes can be yellow, green, orange, or black. All hobgoblins are completely covered in hair, except for their faces which sometimes can grow a beard or mustache. The males prefer to be clean shaved on their face and the females grow nothing there. Generally hobgoblins will not wear any clothing, as their thick hair covers them and keeps them warm entirely. They also have a somewhat bestial appearance and long, pointed ears; in fact some ears can grow to as much as 10” long! While not necessary, hobgoblins love shoes and will often wear them as a fashion statement. Hobgoblins reach adulthood by about 14 years old and typically live to be over 500 years old.
Relations: Hobgoblins are universally members of the Unselee court. This means that they have an innate distrust and dislike for those who are members of the Selee court. This has often been likened to a human's slight loathing for the dark; as humans cannot see in the dark, hobgoblins are slightly shut off from their magical sources in the presence of members of the Selee.
Hobgoblin Lands: Hobgoblins are often found within their ancient homelands, but are at home in any wooded or cave area.
Religion: Because the Hobgoblins were originally created by Mohg, the gods often fear and forsake them. This has led to many hobgoblins becoming evil or to begin following Mohg again. There have also been several movements as of late to unite the hobgoblins with the remainder of the Unselee court for both protection, and spiritual growth. The fact that the Unselee court's leaders are gods helps in this venture immensely.
Language: Hobgoblins speak Unselee and Common. Mohg tried to ensure they would never learn Unselee, but part of the process of making them into fey to begin with required the infusion of the Unselee tongue. Mohg outlawed the use of Unselee and taught them Common, the tongue of his empire.
Names: On a hobgoblin's 10th birthday s/he receives a vision during slumber; the vision can come at any time during the day, causing the hobgoblin to fall into a deep slumber, somewhat like narcolepsy. It is a message from the beings that cannot exist from a place that does not exist, the Forsaken Ones. These Forsaken Ones are the source of all magic within Wolg, and it is they who name the hobgoblin. These names are usually several syllables long and are unlike any common words. For a non-fey to know the true name of a hobgoblin gives that person true power over it. S/he may then force the hobgoblin to do his/her bidding as though under an irresistible geas effect. This leads many hobgoblins to make up new names, taken from other nation's common names, to tell outsiders.
Adventures: Hobgoblins are very curious about the world about them and always looking for a new person on whom to play the ultimate prank. This often leads them to wander away from their homes for many years, sometimes centuries, to pursue these tendencies. They may return one day to reiterate the glory of these tricks, or may find a more suitable spot miles away and reside there, often sending word to friends and relatives back home to come live there instead. It has not been unheard of for entire towns of hobgoblins to up and move at the word of a fellow!
Miscellaneous: The Hobgoblins are said to have a king, the original hobgoblin created by Mohg. If this king should die the entire race will die out within a week. The king is currently hiding away somewhere, unknown to his people and everyone else. Also, while no one's sure if they really can, hobgoblins frequently talk with the dead. This may just be part of some elaborate practical joke or they may actually be doing it, no one knows for certain.
Hobgoblin Racial Traits
+2 Dex, -2 Strength, -2 Charisma: Hobgoblins are fairly nimble and quite easily run underfoot the large folk. They are also small and therefore not as strong as larger humanoids, likewise they are often considered very ugly and of weak force of personality.
Small: As a small creature, a hobgoblin gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but he uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a medium character.
Hobgoblin base land speed is 20 feet.
Add +2 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against Pact Magic cast by hobgoblins. Their innate Fey magic, combined with the repoire these creatures build over their lifetimes with the Forsaken Ones make them stronger at casting these spelss than others.
+2 racial bonus on Listen checks: Hobgoblins have large ears.
-2 racial penalty on Handle Animal checks relating to horses: Horses dislike Hobgoblins.
Unselee Fey: As members of the Unselee Court hobgoblins feel a certain dread when within 60ft of a Selee Fey that is specific to those fey. Furthermore, when within 5ft of a Selee Fey the bonus hobgoblins receive for their DC's on Pact Magic is fully surpressed.
Hobgoblin Invisibility: The hobgoblins are truly magical creatures. While within 5ft of natural fire they gain automatic, instantaneous full concealment and may attempt to hide. This effect lasts as long as the hobgoblin does not move any distance, even around the fire, and does not take any standard actions. Animals may see through this concealment completely.
Fire Fascination: Every minute in the presence of natural fire s/he must make a will saving throw (DC 15) or become fascinated for 1 minute.
Spell-like Abilities: Because of their innate love and weakness to fire hobgoblins have learned some abilities: 1/day: 0th Level: Dancing Lights, Light. These are cast as a druid of equal HD.

Fey Traits:
Low-light vision: A hobgoblin can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Proficient with all simple weapons.
Automatic Languages: Common and Unselee. Bonus Languages: ?
Level Adjustment: +0

Tor the Fallen
2007-01-13, 04:37 PM
Why so weak?
-2 strength would be worth +2 cha and intelligence by itself.
It's bonuses are all offset by pretty terrible penalties, especially the fire vulnerability (though vulnerabality implies it takes 1.5x damage from fire).

Maybe give them fire resistance?

Piccamo
2007-01-13, 04:44 PM
I called it Fire Vulnerability because I didn't know what else to call it. -2 Strength is common among small creatures, and I didn't want to imply these are any stronger than normal small creatures. Also, the -2 charisma is to show their weak personality and ugliness, while the +2 DC for saving throws using Pact Magic effectively makes up for the -2 Charisma and gives a +1 to the saving throw overall. They are not fire creatures so there's no reason to give them fire resistance. Also, I noticed I accidentally had the +2 Dex as +2 Wis and this is now fixed.

Reptilius
2007-01-13, 04:55 PM
You could call fire vulnerability Fire Fascination instead.

Piccamo
2007-01-13, 04:57 PM
Good idea, done :)

Tor the Fallen
2007-01-14, 01:44 AM
I called it Fire Vulnerability because I didn't know what else to call it. -2 Strength is common among small creatures, and I didn't want to imply these are any stronger than normal small creatures. Also, the -2 charisma is to show their weak personality and ugliness, while the +2 DC for saving throws using Pact Magic effectively makes up for the -2 Charisma and gives a +1 to the saving throw overall. They are not fire creatures so there's no reason to give them fire resistance. Also, I noticed I accidentally had the +2 Dex as +2 Wis and this is now fixed.

Good for an NPC race, I guess. -2 charisma means fewer spells/level, and having more trouble casting high level spells.

I mean, why would anyone ever play a goblin or kobold over a halfling, if not for purely story based ones?

And that fire fascination is absolutely devastating, especially at low levels. It means will saves everytime the party lights a torch, everytime they make camp, everytime they're in town. Pretty much, whenever it's dark outside, this little guy is having to make will saves every minute to not go awol.And he'll be useless for putting on guard duty.

Without darkvision, how do the hobgoblins navigate in their caves? Torches?

I really like the idea of the ability, but you should add something to make up for how much of a problem it could cause. Maybe make it so they can make 1 five foot step per/round and remain hidden while around fire?

Piccamo
2007-01-14, 01:51 AM
In the text at the beginning of the entry I specified the only magic is Pact Magic. There are no spells/level to worry about. There is no trouble casting high level spells. The reason to play a hobgoblin over a halfling is an extra +1 to the DC for pact magic abilities and the invisibility is nice. Also, keep in mind that no abilities that affect humanoids affect Fey. Furthermore, there are plenty of low level ways to create light without fire. I was thinking of lessening the restriction for the Fire Fascination a bit, but I'd like to keep it as this is an attempt to make a hobgoblin more related to the original folklore, rather than Tolkien's.

Tor the Fallen
2007-01-14, 03:01 AM
In the text at the beginning of the entry I specified the only magic is Pact Magic. There are no spells/level to worry about. There is no trouble casting high level spells. The reason to play a hobgoblin over a halfling is an extra +1 to the DC for pact magic abilities and the invisibility is nice. Also, keep in mind that no abilities that affect humanoids affect Fey. Furthermore, there are plenty of low level ways to create light without fire. I was thinking of lessening the restriction for the Fire Fascination a bit, but I'd like to keep it as this is an attempt to make a hobgoblin more related to the original folklore, rather than Tolkien's.

Oh, my bad with the magic.

I think the fire fascination is really cool, but could be quite a pain for the lower levels.
Perhaps add some innate spell casting ability? Light, dancing lights, mage hand, prestidigitation, stuff like that.

Piccamo
2007-01-14, 11:58 AM
Alright, I edited the hobgoblin and gave them Dancing Lights and Light. I think that should be enough to off-set the weakness at low levels. Thanks for the help, any other ideas will be considered and appreciated :)

Eighth_Seraph
2007-01-14, 08:39 PM
So...are there no more goblins then? It seems to me that this is a good goblin redux, but Hobgoblins will cry themselves to sleep every night for an eternity if they realize just what they've become.

Tiejaz
2007-01-14, 09:44 PM
I think it's balanced, and interesting. I'd play one if I was in that game.

Piccamo
2007-01-15, 12:13 AM
So...are there no more goblins then? It seems to me that this is a good goblin redux, but Hobgoblins will cry themselves to sleep every night for an eternity if they realize just what they've become.

In normal DnD campaigns kobolds, goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, etc all fill one roll: humanoid bad guy hordes. In the campaign I am creating there will be no race of humanoid bad guy hordes. There will be cults, organizations, and personal armies of humanoid bad guy hordes. The next 2 races I am redoing to fit my needs are the Gnolls and Catfolk. Both are descended from lycanthropes who stayed in their hybrid form a majority of the time and eventually began to lose their ability to go to the other forms. I'll probably be posting one of those sometime tomorrow for critique.

Eighth_Seraph
2007-01-15, 01:09 AM
That's just it. Hobgoblins were given a culture and personality that deserves something along the lines of respect from the human and Dwarven cultures so often opposing them. Hobgoblins in D&D are organized, Lawful warriors known for cruelty to opponents and tactical ability among the intelligent cave-dwellers. The only ones that can get something half-useful out of the goblin tribes at higher levels.

Yes, they may be a part of the evil bad guy hordes, but they're a specific part. This entire redux would be great, if you change the title from Hobgoblins to Goblins.

[/semi-fanboy rant]

Piccamo
2007-01-15, 01:29 AM
The problem with changing the title from Hobgoblins to Goblins is that this is an attempt to get somewhat closer to the hobgoblin of folktale, not that of DnD. You already have Tolkienesque goblins and hobgoblins for all your other needs. The fact is that in folktales "hobgoblins" weren't merely larger, smarter, crueler goblins; they were often lumped in with the evil or mischievous sprites. There were other creatures as large and larger than humans, but they were not these.

sigurd
2007-01-15, 01:54 AM
Why not call them Dark Fey Goblins. I appreciate you trying to reclaim the folk tradition behind the name but I think that horse is out of the barn. Goblin, bugbear, hobgoblin, all are basically interchangeable for folk purposes but not for most players.

A traditional weakness I didn't see was an aversion to cold iron or cast iron.

I like Fire fascination - how does it work? What are they fascinated with the movement, or the spirit, or the heat?

Considering all the weaknesses and the base goblin in D&D, I'd consider upping there movement to 30'.


Sigurd

knightsaline
2007-01-15, 02:52 AM
Question: what are these guys favored class? I know you said that there were no favored classes in your homebrew, but what if I want to play a hobgoblin in MY world? I would like to know what my hobgoblins favored class is.

Piccamo
2007-01-15, 08:38 AM
Why not call them Dark Fey Goblins. I appreciate you trying to reclaim the folk tradition behind the name but I think that horse is out of the barn. Goblin, bugbear, hobgoblin, all are basically interchangeable for folk purposes but not for most players.

Because it is for a custom campaign, I can pretty much call it what I want:smalltongue: If you want to adapt these for your campaign world you can call them what you'd like as well. I've called several DnD monsters by different names when introduced to my players, either because they were misinformed or because they functioned differently within the campaign. Besides, most DnD goblins don't use hair for clothes ;)



A traditional weakness I didn't see was an aversion to cold iron or cast iron.


This is correct, most fey had a weakness to various forms of Iron; hobgoblins, unlike goblins did not.



I like Fire fascination - how does it work? What are they fascinated with the movement, or the spirit, or the heat?

It was said that you could trap a hobgoblin with a flame. They are attracted to heat, especially when coming out of the cold and they enjoy watching the subtle movements within the fire.



Considering all the weaknesses and the base goblin in D&D, I'd consider upping there movement to 30'.
Sigurd

While they are agile, I never really saw a reason for D&D goblins to have a higher base speed than other small creatures. It seemed somewhat tacked on because the rest of the original goblin was so crappy.


Question: what are these guys favored class? I know you said that there were no favored classes in your homebrew, but what if I want to play a hobgoblin in MY world? I would like to know what my hobgoblins favored class is.

The best class for it to follow, fitting the fluff and mechanics, would be a Binder (from Tome of Magic). If this class is not available to you then you may want to consider changing the +2 bonus to DCs with Pact Magic to +1 bonus to DCs with the Enchantment and Illusion schools. Also consider removing the -2 charisma and replacing it with a -2 penalty to all charisma based skills and checks.

sigurd
2007-01-16, 11:33 AM
So to further your 'Hobgoblin' (which incidentally I have renamed a 'robgoblin' in my campaign :P ).

Since they are magical creatures, can one summon and bind one! If they are trapped (say with a circle of salt?) and you force them to make a promise 3 times are they bound to keep it - at least to the letter ?

What of your Unseelie court & Mohg. Would they get miffed if the occasional Robgob... sorry Hobgob was sent on an errand for a mortal caster? Or would they just enjoy getting the extra information the gobs debriefing might entail.

I'm thinking Monster Summoning 2 with some fey reqs - perhaps in a deep dark forest by a bonfire?

Would the court sell the caster the allegiance of a particular Hobgob as a familiar???


Inquiring minds want to know....


Sigurd

Piccamo
2007-01-16, 03:55 PM
In the campaign (called Wolg, from the German word for world), Mohg was the first and last hybrid race. He was a half titan, half dragon who demanded to be made a god for the sake of his uniqueness. It became his all-consuming purpose in life to make this be. He raised an army (during the War of the Immortals) and was soundly defeated. He licked his wounds for millenia, becoming all but forgotten until the Mortal races came to be. At this point he felt to show his aptitude for godhood he would create races of his own (called the Races of Mohg); they were Hobgoblin, Orc, and Human. At present Mohg is possessing a dragon and waging a war against the last of the lycanthropes, but the Races of Mohg rebelled against him long ago and he basically washed his hands of them. The Unseelie Court is a collective name, I may have to make them a subtype, of mischievous fey who oppose the Seelie Court. Each one is led by a divine fey, but away from the homes of these courts there is little unity amongst them; they may turn to another Unseelie during times of need, but for the most part there is little interaction. Unless there is a war going on between the 2 fey groups, I don't see why anyone would care about purchasing a "robgoblin". Make the flavor fit your campaign if you want to use it. I may start a thread about Wolg now that you have me typing all this out :P