Bringing the commoner NPC [3.5]

[hymer]

The scenario:
So the party have decided for nostalgic reasons more than anything to bring the (ex-) farm girl with them on their journeys (and she wanted to get away from her town and think the PCs heroes, so she's only too happy and honoured to come with them). She's to tend to their horses while they're down in the dungeon, that sort of thing.
Okay, fine. I certainly don't want to punish them for taking a liking to my NPC, but though I haven't statted her out yet, she's clearly a simple commoner. Now, if I know certain of my players, they will want to improve that. Suppose I allow commoner levels to get 'leveled over' and turned into something useful...

Well, has any of you ever been in a similar situation? How does a commoner (presumably with a stat allocation of 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 and commoner1) become part of the story without being a major liability? How does she evolve from here? I'd really rather she stays the simple girl she is, and doesn't suddenly sprout magical or mighty martial skillz.

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions, comments, etc. are welcome.

[IAmTehDave]

For starters: Her next (or even first) level could be Expert instead of Commoner. Her class skills should be farm related, perhaps Profession: Farmer, Craft: Cooking, Handle Animal, etc.
These would allow her to have some merit to the party without "suddenly sprouting magic and martial skillz[sic]"

How is she "clearly" a simple commoner? She wasn't statted before, so maybe she's a little more special than previously thought! Hell, these adventurers are taking her with them on their journey. She clearly decided that she wanted to travel even before the PCs asked her ("...she wanted to get away from her town...") and that could have been any PC's start. She's not actually joining for the "difficult" bits (dungeon delving) but she's there for the adventure. Stays "simple" without being useless.

Alternatively: Make her (somewhat) useless. Make the PCs wonder why they're keeping her along. Reward them when they honor her wishes to tour the world anyway. (Friendlier reception in certain towns, something.)

[aldeayeah]

She starts picking up stuff from what she sees, and becomes a factotum. It is known!

More seriously, if you don't want her to be a total liability, at least give her some decent well-placed stats to become an efficient skillmonkey.

Or you can play her straight as someone useless for adventuring, but that's not likely to end well.

...I think the most fun option for everyone is to have her be competent but disloyal, or quirky in some other way.

[Khatoblepas]

If she's a simple farm girl, but you still want her to be marginally useful instead of a commoner, try using the Adept or Gleaner (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/gk7uKJeF296jRcx1NJw.html) NPC classes. That way she'll have some abilities that could aid the party while they focus on bigger things. These classes have a kind of "hedge wizard" quality about them, where the magic they grant is simple and down to earth. I know you said you don't want her to suddenly develop magical powers, but in a D&D world, magic is pretty common, and giving her at least some abilities will make the PCs feel good.

The advantage of the Gleaner is, she can have an animal companion that won't overpower the party (or even be able to hold it's own in a fight) but would be able to give her a kind of "bodyguard" so she won't be left stranded. Added fun comes with the Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) feat, which isn't an animal companion, so Blessed Beast (I think?) can be added to it. That'll at least keep her safe for a while, and if the cohort can fly, she can keep up with the party once they get access to Overland Flight et al.

(And best of all her magic is basically "look after animals" anyway.)

[Bullet06320]

well as u said she is gonna watch the horses while the party is in the dungeon, sumone has to do the cooking an cleaning, lol
camp followers are common in larger armys, why not for adventurers?

[Slipperychicken]

How does a commoner (presumably with a stat allocation of 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 and commoner1) become part of the story without being a major liability?

The party has decided to weigh themselves down with her. She pretty much will wind up as a liability. There's a darn good reason wandering heroes don't want noncombatants to tag along. If she gets gibbed by crossfire, then tough noogies. That peasant's blood is on their hands, not yours.

She is a part of the story, even when she dies -the heroes will soon realize the folly of carrying an untrained mortal peasant into war, and can roleplay about it. Turning her into a superhero robs them of this opportunity.

Also, she can see her "heroes" act like murderhobos, and then act all conflicted and dramatic about it.


How does she evolve from here? I'd really rather she stays the simple girl she is, and doesn't suddenly sprout magical or mighty martial skillz.

If she's just bumming around tending the horses, she doesn't get XP. Simple as that.

[supermonkeyjoe]

If you want to stat her out fully then after a couple af adventures she could start taking the Survivor PrC from Savage Species, Commoners qualify by level 2 I believe. the lack of BaB won't hurt but the 2+int skillpoints might, it's still better than a level in Commoner any day.

[Jgosse]

Have each Pc that wants to start training her in there own skill set eventually she can do a little bit of every thing . give her 3/4 bab progression 4+int and bard (is bard the lowest spell progression that starts at 1st?) but weaken it further and make it a mix of arcane and divine. create your own npc class and call it the Mutt.

[Slipperychicken]

give her 3/4 bab progression 4+int and bard (is bard the lowest spell progression that starts at 1st?) but weaken it further and make it a mix of arcane and divine. create your own npc class and call it the Mutt.

So basically an Adept (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/adept.htm), which is the archetypical NPC spellcasting class.

[Kish]

The party has decided to weigh themselves down with her. She pretty much will wind up as a liability. There's a darn good reason wandering heroes don't want noncombatants to tag along. If she gets gibbed by crossfire, then tough noogies. That peasant's blood is on their hands, not yours.

She is a part of the story, even when she dies -the heroes will soon realize the folly of carrying an untrained mortal peasant into war, and can roleplay about it. Turning her into a superhero robs them of this opportunity.

Also, she can see her "heroes" act like murderhobos, and then act all conflicted and dramatic about it.



If she's just bumming around tending the horses, she doesn't get XP. Simple as that.
I mainly agree with this. If she participates in overcoming challenges, and survives, and sticks with it rather than deciding she's had enough after the first time she gets to -9 hit points, her second level doesn't need to be Commoner 2, but I wouldn't "overwrite" her first level, retcon her into anything other than a commoner, artificially boost her stats, or recton her initial level into anything higher than her level would have been had she not accompanied them.

Most people in the world are commoners with average stats of 10-11. Making players value one of those as a person is a good thing; establishing that the spotlight will automagically turn background-noise commoners into actual-people with super abilities is a bad thing.

[Rockphed]

Someone skilled at farming who clearly has potential to do things in the world? That sounds like an expert, not a commoner. If she starts out as a level 1 commoner, her next level should be expert, which is essentially a rogue without any combat abilities. If you want, replace her first level with expert once she stops cowering around the players.

And she probably will end up being a liability. If she gets to level 3 she probably will have 10 hit points, 1 BAB, little skill with armor, and generally poor saves. On the other hand, NPCs get XP when the DM decides they deserve it, so she will advance as quickly or as slowly as you want her to.

If she has magical inclination, the adept or gleaner are probably the classes she is most likely to take levels in.

[Jgosse]

So basically an Adept (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/adept.htm), which is the archetypical NPC spellcasting class.

not quite I was thinking spell progression even worse then that.

[Abaddona]

Determine what the players want to do with her - if they simply let her be because "silly girl want to go on an adventure" then her class levels and stat array aren't really important (commoner with maybe survivor PrC if she lives long enough). But they as well might want to train her so she will be actually able to survive this adventure - and if they want to use some of their resources to make her usefull, then she might end as a expert or even t4/t5 PC class (basically they have series of sidequests concerning turning this girl into adventurer and in this case it's nothing wrong to "reward" them by gradually turning her stat array into elite one or changing levels in commoners into those of better class- after all retraining/rebuilding rules are a thins, so is Rule 0). They might also planning to take leadership and turn her into a cohort - in this situation she ends up turned into junior murderhobo with all it's benefits.

[Jgosse]

so yeah I would just home brew it and have it look like this.
that's better
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Spells

1st|+0|+0|+0|+0|

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+0|

3rd|+2|+1|+1|+1|

4th|+3|+1|+1|+1|

5th|+3|+1|+1|+1|

6th|+4|+2|+2|+2|

7th|+5|+2|+2|+2|

8th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+2|

9th|+6/+1|+3|+3|+3|

10th|+7/+2|+3|+3|+3|

11th|+8/+3|+3|+3|+3|

12th|+9/+4|+4|+4|+4|

13th|+9/+4|+4|+4|+4|

14th|+10/+5|+4|+4|+4|

15th|+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+5|

16th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+5|

17th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+5|

18th|+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+6|

19th|+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+6|

20th|+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+6|

[/table]






{table=head]Per-Day
{table=head]Level | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 |
1st | 2 | - | - | - |
2nd | 2 | - | - | - |
3rd | 2 | - | - | - |
4th | 2 | 1 | - | - |
5th | 3 | 1 | - | - |
6th | 3 | 1 | - | - |
7th | 3 | 1 | - | - |
8th | 3 | 1 | 1 | - |
9th | 3 | 2 | 1 | - |
10th | 4 | 2 | 1 | - |
11th | 4 | 2 | 1 | - |
12th | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 |
13th | 4 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
14th | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 |
15th | 5 | 3 | 2 | 1 |
16th | 5 | 3 | 2 | 1 |
17th | 5 | 3 | 2 | 2 |
18th | 5 | 3 | 3 | 2 |
19th | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 |
20th | 6 | 4 | 3 | 2 |
[/table][/table]




{table=head] spells known
{table=head]Level | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 |
1st | 2 | - | - | - |
2nd | 2 | - | - | - |
3rd | -3| - | - | - |
4th | 3 | 2 | - | - |
5th | 3 | 2 | - | - |
6th | 4 | 3 | - | - |
7th | 4 | 3 | - | - |
8th | 4 | 3 | 2 | - |
9th | 4 | 4 | 2 | - |
10th | 5 | 4 | 3 | - |
11th | 5 | 4 | 3 | - |
12th | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 |
13th | 5 | 5 | 4 | 2 |
14th | 5 | 5 | 4 | 3 |
15th | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 |
16th | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 |
17th | 6 | 5 | 5 | 4 |
18th | 6 | 6 | 5 | 4 |
19th | 6 | 6 | 5 | 4 |
20th | 6 | 6 | 5 | 4 |
[/table][/table]

[limejuicepowder]

I think you should make her in to a villain.

At first, the girl is thrilled to be off the farm and seeing the wide world. She follows the PC's around and helps in whatever way she can, and tries to stay out of trouble. Though her combat ability is non-existent, she is proves herself useful by tending to horses, having useful "contacts" in some towns, knows some obscure local lore, and prepping excellent meals when the PCs return from expeditions.

Time passes, and she becomes comfortable enough with the group to offer her opinions on moral quandaries, or other courses of action. The PCs begin to get a glimpse of her true nature: remorseless, cunning, almost bloodthirsty. Since this is an emerging quality in herself, it takes time for this to manifest, and even longer for the PCs to realize it.

Before long, she begins to show an expressed interest in power. She watches the casters prepare their spells, and warriors sharpen their weapons. She grills the PCs for information on tactics, techniques, and knowledge.

Finally, she does something horrific. Slaughters a captive the PCs left in her care, or tortures an NPC for information that was being withheld from the group. Assuming the PCs don't kill her on the spot, she leaves.

At some point, she returns. Her desire for power and sadistic nature have been fully realized with a demonic pact (or something of that nature). The PCs must now confront the evil that they had a hand in creating.

[Vizzerdrix]

Either way, the party should invest in alchemical devises and marbles so she won't get eaten when she's tending camp.

[Vhaidara]

It depends how useful she should be.

Not: leave her as a commoner

Vaguely, but entirely noncombat: Expert

Slightly combat: Leave the commoner level, and then have her progress evenly along expert and warrior

Somewhat combat: Warrior

Support role: Bard. Seriously, bards provide buffs (bard song) and arcane healing spells.

Party Member: Depends on how she is trained
1. No training means something inherent. A few examples would be Sorcerer, Hexblade, Spirit Shaman, Favored Soul, Warlock, Bard, Barbarian, or Rogue.

2. If the party decides to help train her, have them each make a check (probably either diplomacy or bluff) modified by how they (individually) treat her. Have her adopt the class of whoever wins. If there is a tie, find a middle ground class (ex, fighter + druid = ranger, or rogue + sorcerer = bard).

3. If the entire party is within 5 points on the previous option, have her go for factotum. They can do a bit of everything (literally, EVERYTHING).

[hymer]

It's very interesting to see all the different ways people would handle this. Thanks to all who's chimed in so far. It's much appreciated.

[Twilightwyrm]

The scenario:
So the party have decided for nostalgic reasons more than anything to bring the (ex-) farm girl with them on their journeys (and she wanted to get away from her town and think the PCs heroes, so she's only too happy and honoured to come with them). She's to tend to their horses while they're down in the dungeon, that sort of thing.
Okay, fine. I certainly don't want to punish them for taking a liking to my NPC, but though I haven't statted her out yet, she's clearly a simple commoner. Now, if I know certain of my players, they will want to improve that. Suppose I allow commoner levels to get 'leveled over' and turned into something useful...

Well, has any of you ever been in a similar situation? How does a commoner (presumably with a stat allocation of 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 and commoner1) become part of the story without being a major liability? How does she evolve from here? I'd really rather she stays the simple girl she is, and doesn't suddenly sprout magical or mighty martial skillz.

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions, comments, etc. are welcome.

Here's the thing, bringing her along, especially at this early stage, makes her a liability. All you can do is minimize the extant to which this will be the case. With this in mind, while you can "overlap" the level of commoner, keeping it wouldn't be a terrible plan either. Unless you plan on having her become an optimized caster, losing that one level to back story won't hurt anyone. Here is the important part though: if she survives, she should start gaining levels and becoming more powerful, either as a spell caster or otherwise. One thing I like about 3/.5 D&D is the fact that, mechanically speaking, almost anyone can become powerful. With the nonstandard stat array, and a level of commoner, she won't likely ever enter the same league as the PCs, but that should not prevent her from being helpful in her own right. Hell, even with a maximum of 13 in CHA, starting to give her levels in Bard would almost instantly upgrade her usefulness.
Of course, this brings us to the stat array. If you want to keep the nonstandard array to emphasize her just being a normal person, that is fine. If you want her to eventually become very helpful however, giving her a little extra inborn talent wouldn't hurt. Indeed, there are plenty of peasants with the elite array that go on to just be particularly effective farmers, or smiths, or innkeepers, etc. If, for you, the dead level of commoner is enough to remind the PCs of her background as you put it, then I'd say do her, and the party, a favor and upgrade her to the elite array. As previously mentioned in this thread, there is presumably a reason she attracted the attention of the PCs in the first place. Otherwise, if she is only ever going to be just there for nostalgic reasons, give her the nonstandard array, have her occasionally level up, and treat her like a party spell book; don't specifically target her, but don't prevent danger from getting to her if they activly put her in harm's way.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Start her off as an expert with an elite array. Focus on the farm-y skills-- say a class list of Craft, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Nature), Listen, Profession, Ride, Spot, Survival, and Use Rope. If the PCs train her, add levels of whatever class they train her as in there. (And maybe ask that someone take Leadership and treat her as a cohort from that, eventually).

If they liked the character enough to invite her along, be proud of your roleplaying skills. Make her part of the story somehow, don't just say "well, she was eaten by a bear while you guys were in the dungeon/killed in the crossfire during a random encounter, that's what you get for taking an interest in NPCs."

[Jgosse]

you could just have the party give her some way of casting sanctuary all the time.